Cost of a roomette - are they kidding?

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Interesting idea, GL.

It would be a lot more fun if your set out sleeper got picked up while you were sleeping, and dropped off at an unknown destination the next morning before everyone awoke. Imagine the adventure! :lol:
 
Its a sleeper that is left in a place, and picked up by a train as it passes through. If I was running this service, and had 50+ sleepers I converted from Amfleets or Comets, or whatever, I could have train 66 leaving Boston with two sleepers, picking up two more in New Haven, dropping one of the New Haven and Boston sleepers off in New York, picking up a sleeper in New York, another in Philly, and arriving in Washington with the various sleepers. There, I pick up the whole market.
I mentioned this idea in an earlier post in this thread, pointing out that Amtrak supposedly did this with 66/67 in the past.
 
Whats a set out sleeper?
Its a sleeper that is left in a place, and picked up by a train as it passes through. If I was running this service, and had 50+ sleepers I converted from Amfleets or Comets, or whatever, I could have train 66 leaving Boston with two sleepers, picking up two more in New Haven, dropping one of the New Haven and Boston sleepers off in New York, picking up a sleeper in New York, another in Philly, and arriving in Washington with the various sleepers. There, I pick up the whole market.
It's a great shame that the British railway has given up completely on the idea of the set out sleeper. I live (when I'm not at University in Leeds) near Carlisle, and it used to be the case that, on the London to Glasgow/Edinburgh sleeper, a sleeper was set out at Carlisle, and passengers were left to sleep as their carriage stood at the platform until morning. Now they've given that up, and Carlisle passengers have to board at 1:39am on the way to London, and alight at 5:20am on the way back from London, and the consequence is that no one in their right mind uses the sleeper from Carlisle - including, sadly, myself. The one or two times I've used the train in this arrangement, I've seen one or two coach passengers board, and never any other sleeping car passengers.

Now, the same thing will happen to Plymouth, which is just now losing its set out sleepers.

It's a great shame, as in both cases, the sleeper fare can end up cheaper than a hotel room in London.
 
It would be a lot more fun if your set out sleeper got picked up while you were sleeping, and dropped off at an unknown destination the next morning before everyone awoke. Imagine the adventure! :lol:
Isn't that close to how it works now?

I never know where I will be, when I wake up. Rarely is it where the schedule says we should be, and even once, I woke up in the same place I went to sleep (we didn't move).
 
It would be a lot more fun if your set out sleeper got picked up while you were sleeping, and dropped off at an unknown destination the next morning before everyone awoke. Imagine the adventure! :lol:
Isn't that close to how it works now?

I never know where I will be, when I wake up. Rarely is it where the schedule says we should be, and even once, I woke up in the same place I went to sleep (we didn't move).
That happens to me a lot!
 
Didn't the Night Owl drop off a sleeper at Penn Station? Where passengers could sleep till 6-7 a.m.?
IIRC the sleepers were slumbercoaches. I'm not sure that a Night Owl would work well with a Viewliner.

I read an article that claimed that sleepers from Paris to the south of France are better than the TGV because you don't waste a day each way in transit.
When I rode the night Owl back in the early 90s I was in an old Union Pacific 10&6 sleeper. They went to Viewliners after that, before ending the BOS-WAS sleeper service.
 
IIRC the sleepers were slumbercoaches. I'm not sure that a Night Owl would work well with a Viewliner.
I read an article that claimed that sleepers from Paris to the south of France are better than the TGV because you don't waste a day each way in transit.
Why wouldn't a Viewliner work? If you believe Wikipedia the problem Amtrak had was that the pipes would freeze (I guess when the car sat at South Station during the day). I'm sure that could be fixed. I imagine most riders would be alone, but that shouldn't be too big a deal. A $300 one-way walk-up fare would be reasonable (less than the shuttle, about as much as full-price Acela Express 1st class).
Oh I was just thinking that the bedrooms might be hard to sell, and that a higher-density car like the slumbercoach makes more sense on a short run. But since they were using heritage 10&6 sleepers, as Montanan says, that must not have been an issue.
 
they'd have to leave early enough in BOS to pick up passengers at NYP at a reasonable hour- then go slow as possible through onto DC.
I've been thinking that once the NSRL gets built through downtown Boston, the surface platforms at South Station and North Station will basically be obsolete, because each through platform will be able to serve many more trains per hour than each stub end surface platform, and if there are multiple underground stations, having as many trains as possible serve all of those undergound stations will make connections in downtown Boston easier.

If there ends up not being a set of underground platforms at North Station, the surface platforms will still be useful for special trains for events at the Garden, though.

Somewhere around 8 or 9 hours ago, it occurred to me that a good use of the South Station platforms (if they aren't seeing constant use by commuter trains) might be parking sleeping car trains for several hours. For example, if Chicago ends up being something like a 4-7 hour trip on high speed track (depending on just how high speed that track is), perhaps there could be two or three different Boston to Chicago trains each night, with different arrival times at Chicago, and they could all offer boarding at the surface platforms at South Station starting around 9:00 PM, and just stay parked at the surface platforms until their departure time. In the morning, the trains from Chicago could arrive at various early hours and allow the passengers to detrain as late as perhaps 9:00 AM. Atlanta would potentially be another good city to offer this sort of sleeper train with several hours of the train parked at South Station.
 
We have been planning on taking Brenda's daughters to GSC (Glenwood Springs CO) again in summer 2009. Yesterday and last night we checked sleeper prices on every single date from June until August, we finally came to the conclusion of "well maybe we will go somewhere else". The roomettes were more expensive than the bedrooms on some of the days. When we could find a "lowest bucket" fare sleeper, we were paying either up the ying-yang on railfare or the return prices were extreme! So I think today is the day we sit down with her girls and say, "we can't afford a $2000 RT train ride! :angry:

Al
 
When we could find a "lowest bucket" fare sleeper, we were paying either up the ying-yang on railfare or the return prices were extreme!
I thought sleeper passengers always paid the lowest railfare bucket.
They do. Once you select a sleeping car accommodation upgrade, the railfare portion of your fare is reset to the lowest bucket.
 
They do. Once you select a sleeping car accommodation upgrade, the railfare portion of your fare is reset to the lowest bucket.
Ah, ah. Found a new trick- check on the lowest bucket fare for the coach class by checking the sleeper accommodation upgrade. Now, it's time to find the coach fare for the next 3 or 4 bucket levels.
 
Bottom line was, we were going to spend close to $2000 for a train! Now, if its going all the way to the coast, I can accept that, but when its a 14 hour trip, thats just way out of our league financially. Yes, we could take coach, but sleeping in coach overnight on a 45 year old body that has been beat to crap over a 25 year hard labor career really messes me up for the rest of the trip. I walk around looking like I have been hit by a car! :lol:
 
Bottom line was, we were going to spend close to $2000 for a train! Now, if its going all the way to the coast, I can accept that, but when its a 14 hour trip, thats just way out of our league financially. Yes, we could take coach, but sleeping in coach overnight on a 45 year old body that has been beat to crap over a 25 year hard labor career really messes me up for the rest of the trip. I walk around looking like I have been hit by a car! :lol:
I sympathize with your predicament. For many "normal" people the prices Amtrak and Congress have arrived at have taken the reasonable out of rail travel that persisted until the government became involved. Unfortunately there seems to be a large amount of people here that think it should go even higher as long as a few people can afford to pay for it.. I would say the fact that trains are as busy as they are is adding to the bucket fares being raised way in advance.

The other argument will be that I and many others have "chosen" to pay these fares which make it appear that its just fine.. I don't exactly buy that. What it really means is that some of us that prefer for various reasons to travel by rail are holding our noses and paying the fare since there is no "Option". And like you I am older and my mom is 85 and going coach is not an option.. My problem is that pullman service used to be at a range everyone could afford. Not so today. For some of us that extra high fare means that money for other things is not available.. When you have lots to throw around it doesn't matter. But I see many people in sleepers that I have a feeling are also having to cut back somewhere else for the privilege of getting a good nights rest on the train.
 
...My problem is that pullman service used to be at a range everyone could afford. Not so today. For some of us that extra high fare means that money for other things is not available.. When you have lots to throw around it doesn't matter. But I see many people in sleepers that I have a feeling are also having to cut back somewhere else for the privilege of getting a good nights rest on the train.
I don't think that todays Amtrak sleeper fares are out of line compared to the old Pullman fares. In 1965, a Roomette from New York to Chicago on the NYC cost $84. Meals were extra. Adjusted for inflation to 2008 that is $582. Amtrak is showing a Roomette on Wednesday's (10/22) Lake Shore Limited for $434, including meals. That is the high bucket. Book six months in advance and you can get that same Roomette for $317. Compared to the historic prices for pre-Amtrak Pullman accommodations, Amtrak sleeping car fares are a bargain.
 
Bottom line was, we were going to spend close to $2000 for a train! Now, if its going all the way to the coast, I can accept that, but when its a 14 hour trip, thats just way out of our league financially. Yes, we could take coach, but sleeping in coach overnight on a 45 year old body that has been beat to crap over a 25 year hard labor career really messes me up for the rest of the trip. I walk around looking like I have been hit by a car! :lol:
I sympathize with your predicament. For many "normal" people the prices Amtrak and Congress have arrived at have taken the reasonable out of rail travel that persisted until the government became involved. Unfortunately there seems to be a large amount of people here that think it should go even higher as long as a few people can afford to pay for it.. I would say the fact that trains are as busy as they are is adding to the bucket fares being raised way in advance.

The other argument will be that I and many others have "chosen" to pay these fares which make it appear that its just fine.. I don't exactly buy that. What it really means is that some of us that prefer for various reasons to travel by rail are holding our noses and paying the fare since there is no "Option". And like you I am older and my mom is 85 and going coach is not an option.. My problem is that pullman service used to be at a range everyone could afford. Not so today. For some of us that extra high fare means that money for other things is not available.. When you have lots to throw around it doesn't matter. But I see many people in sleepers that I have a feeling are also having to cut back somewhere else for the privilege of getting a good nights rest on the train.
In principal I agree with what you're saying. Rail travel is a historic piece of Americana and all of us should be able to afford and enjoy the benefit, pleasures and even the bumps and grinds ( :huh: ) of rail travel. But at whatever price that's not always possible for many for whatever reason.

Some people like myself are retired and on fixed income and feel that they just can't afford rail travel, but some of us in that catagory also realize that this kind of travel is not really out of the question; there is another option. You just need to save up over a longer period of time and realize that traveling half as much as you would like to is better than just putting the idea out of your head and not traveling at all. (Note that I'm thinking longer rail trips with my post and not commuter or short distant rail users!)

With that said, what I have said my not be a reasonable solution in your case, but for many of us it should be!
 
...My problem is that pullman service used to be at a range everyone could afford. Not so today. For some of us that extra high fare means that money for other things is not available.. When you have lots to throw around it doesn't matter. But I see many people in sleepers that I have a feeling are also having to cut back somewhere else for the privilege of getting a good nights rest on the train.
I don't think that todays Amtrak sleeper fares are out of line compared to the old Pullman fares. In 1965, a Roomette from New York to Chicago on the NYC cost $84. Meals were extra. Adjusted for inflation to 2008 that is $582. Amtrak is showing a Roomette on Wednesday's (10/22) Lake Shore Limited for $434, including meals. That is the high bucket. Book six months in advance and you can get that same Roomette for $317. Compared to the historic prices for pre-Amtrak Pullman accommodations, Amtrak sleeping car fares are a bargain.
Maybe its inflation that is too high then? No one would say that compared to yesterdays medical treatment todays is reasonable amount? But yet its the charge like it or not.. I also compared that by the schedule posted here that showed the fare in 49 to indicate that a bedroom was half more than a coach ticket.. that does seem low somehow. But it is 18 times the price of a coach ticket now many times depending on the bucket. My point is that somewhere along the line the price became much higher in relationship to buying the coach fare.. Which it certainly is. Somehow a 4,000 ticket round trip seems a bit out of line, is what I am saying.. ( that would be for many two day trips). I guess if your making a reasonable salary or have lots in the bank that may not seem high, considering that executives seem to think that a 180 million dollar salary is fine! But if your making 8.00 at walmart that 4,000 is somehow a very elusive fare.
 
I sympathize with your predicament. For many "normal" people the prices Amtrak and Congress have arrived at have taken the reasonable out of rail travel that persisted until the government became involved. Unfortunately there seems to be a large amount of people here that think it should go even higher as long as a few people can afford to pay for it.. I would say the fact that trains are as busy as they are is adding to the bucket fares being raised way in advance.
The other argument will be that I and many others have "chosen" to pay these fares which make it appear that its just fine.. I don't exactly buy that. What it really means is that some of us that prefer for various reasons to travel by rail are holding our noses and paying the fare since there is no "Option". And like you I am older and my mom is 85 and going coach is not an option.. My problem is that pullman service used to be at a range everyone could afford. Not so today. For some of us that extra high fare means that money for other things is not available.. When you have lots to throw around it doesn't matter. But I see many people in sleepers that I have a feeling are also having to cut back somewhere else for the privilege of getting a good nights rest on the train.
For the next two or three years, unless you want to go to a system where only people who know their travel schedule 11 months in advance can travel by sleeper, Amtrak really doesn't have much alternative.

In the long run, more equipment would certainly be a good thing. Have you written to your Congresspeople asking them to fund this?
 
Larry, I hear where you are coming from. Here is what I see may be our differences. You see train travel as public transportation and in that, it should all be affordably priced. The problem is our government has pretty much called coach train travel public transportation and anything above that is a "luxury".

I think be both agree that we would love to see Amtrak funded to the point they have tons of sleeper rooms available and because of that, the sleeper prices would be lower. That would be great.

I think you are arguing about what could be and people here (myself included) are arguing about how it is.

I think, under the current circumstances, with limited sleeper capacity, Amtrak is doing the right thing with the prices for the resources it has.

What I am hearing (correct me if I am wrong) is that you think there should be more sleepers and lower fares. If so, we agree totally. I just think that under current circumstances, the prices are where they have to be.

I could be wrong in all of this so forgive me if I am.

I guess if your making a reasonable salary or have lots in the bank that may not seem high, considering that executives seem to think that a 180 million dollar salary is fine! But if your making 8.00 at walmart that 4,000 is somehow a very elusive fare.
Just FYI, I do not have lots in the bank nor do I make big bucks. However, my family and I have decided we like vacations with train travel so we decide to give up other things so we can do that.
 
...My problem is that pullman service used to be at a range everyone could afford. Not so today. For some of us that extra high fare means that money for other things is not available.. When you have lots to throw around it doesn't matter. But I see many people in sleepers that I have a feeling are also having to cut back somewhere else for the privilege of getting a good nights rest on the train.
I don't think that todays Amtrak sleeper fares are out of line compared to the old Pullman fares. In 1965, a Roomette from New York to Chicago on the NYC cost $84. Meals were extra. Adjusted for inflation to 2008 that is $582. Amtrak is showing a Roomette on Wednesday's (10/22) Lake Shore Limited for $434, including meals. That is the high bucket. Book six months in advance and you can get that same Roomette for $317. Compared to the historic prices for pre-Amtrak Pullman accommodations, Amtrak sleeping car fares are a bargain.
Maybe its inflation that is too high then? No one would say that compared to yesterdays medical treatment todays is reasonable amount? But yet its the charge like it or not.. I also compared that by the schedule posted here that showed the fare in 49 to indicate that a bedroom was half more than a coach ticket.. that does seem low somehow. But it is 18 times the price of a coach ticket now many times depending on the bucket. My point is that somewhere along the line the price became much higher in relationship to buying the coach fare.. Which it certainly is. Somehow a 4,000 ticket round trip seems a bit out of line, is what I am saying.. ( that would be for many two day trips). I guess if your making a reasonable salary or have lots in the bank that may not seem high, considering that executives seem to think that a 180 million dollar salary is fine! But if your making 8.00 at walmart that 4,000 is somehow a very elusive fare.
Bah. Coach fares are offered partly as a public service, subsidized and cheap. They weren't before. If you need to get from place A to place B, you can take coach. I dun care if you are 45 or 65, or 85. You can ride coach. I know its uncomfortable. I dun like it either. But I can do it. It is the minimum requirement for me to travel, and it is reasonable to provide this as a public service, subsidized.

Even your 85 year old mother can do it. Sure, she'll be in pain. Do you think us 24 year olds aren't in pain after riding coach overnight? PUH-LEAAASSSEE! Such nonsense.

Roomettes and bedrooms are a luxury. Purely, unabashedly, unequivocally. It is something someone doesn't need. Therefore, Joe Taxpayer shouldn't be paying for you to ride in luxury. To ride the train? Yes. In luxury and exceptional comfort? No. They shouldn't be subsidizing your comfy bed, and mattress, and sleeping car attendant, and flat iron steak dinner. No way. You should be paying for that yourself. Does that make it more expensive? O'course. But it's still fair.

The definition of unfair pricing, contrary to common belief, is not "Pricing people don't like."

We won't get into the rippoff nature of the medical profession. I agree with you on that stance.
 
Bottom line was, we were going to spend close to $2000 for a train! Now, if its going all the way to the coast, I can accept that, but when its a 14 hour trip, thats just way out of our league financially.
Now compare that to first class airfare for several people. The train is still cheaper.
 
I decided to try and book something on the EB when I was seeing the sleeper prices on CZ outrageous. The "drill" goes..."book 11 months out and you'll get the lowest bucket price". I was thinking maybe taking the EB would work. That was just as crazy.
 
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Geeze, (Comments Removed) it wouldn't do any good and it just ain't worth it! :huh:
Don't feel bad, while you were typing this I also deleted my thoughts, since its apparent they are somewhat scoffed at here.

I think it boils down to several things..

Some who are old enough to remember traveling coach, parlor car, or pullman pre amtrak. Some of us feel that the price structure is out of line. That stems from the fact that contrary to what some think, in the old system it wasn't considered a "luxury" to purchase a room, it was a way to get a good nights rest on a long trip.. Sure you could go coach and many did, but many also spent a bit more for the sake of a room.. No one thought you were "special" or privileged and so should pay huge amounts more for the service. Then the government stepped in to preserve the rail system for passengers and slowly began to change that equation. No matter that other forms of government subsides don't always pay for them selfs.

Then evidently there are those who did not experience that fare structure and though the constant drum beat to make rail something it is no where else, self sufficient, have bought in to the line that any fare, especially for those silly enough to want to ride in a sleeper should be as high as any person is willing to pay.. And they should pay since they are so well treated.. Well in fact the service is way less than what you got for the much cheaper fare in relationship, but no matter. Its almost like some have turned a simple choice of a seat or a bed for a long trip in to class warfare, which it almost seems it has become. It is not what the traditional rail travel was like, but it is now.

I don't care if its not covering every dime of the trip or how much per mile it makes or loses. When the government charges you to drive up on the highway, or though the billion dollar a mile tunnels in Boston then I will consider that maybe we should worry about the expenses. But that isn't going to happen. It shouldn't be the critera for running a decent long distance service which is not like an airplane no matter how many comparisons one makes.
 
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