2011 SWC Room Pricing

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printman2000

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I have brought this up on a thread or two but thought I would start its own.

As I noted before, starting March 2, 2011, room prices take a huge jump on the Southwest Chief. As an example, from Los Angeles to Chicago, low bucket for a roomette is $301. They are now releasing prices at $623. Quite a jump.

Couple of developments in this...

First, I emailed customer service to inquire...

Starting March 2, 2011, the prices for roomettes on the trains 3 & 4 (Southwest Chief) are starting off at a very high price. Even dates that have just opened up are starting at a very high bucket. Example, Lamy to Chicago shows $465 for a roomette when the low bucket price is $220. Can you tell me why the prices are releasing so high? Is this a new price, or a temporary glitch in the system?
Their response...

The challenge for Amtrak, as for any business, is to cover its increases in current and anticipated expenses. Amtrak has begun to revenue manage some trains to better match fares to demand periods. While certain peak travel times may be priced accordingly, passengers with the flexibility to travel at off-peak times will now be able to take advantage of lower fares. Combining off-peak travel with some of our published discounts we are confident that you will be able to find attractive fares.
So it does seem someone is actively managing the prices.

The second development is that March 2011 prices have dropped back to low bucket prices. It is now April 1, 2011 and on that are priced high.

I have the luxury of being able to buy my yearly trip tickets 11 months out, the day the tickets are released. It USE to insure me low bucket, but if this keeps up, looks like I will have to wait a couple of months for the prices to drop. At least they are dropping.
 
Thanks for sharing this Printman, it should answer all the questions about why sleeper prices are so pricey on most of the LD trains! :eek: (Even the poor Texas Eagles are double what low bucket used to be!)It's great that so many folks are riding the trains, Amtrak(and all of us! ;) ) needs to get on the stick and lobby/persuade Congress and Amtrak Joe to expidite some funding to purchase/rehab more cars ASAP! BTW-Alan provided me with the transdorm layout you scanned, thanks!
 
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I don't think your response is more or less newsworthy. It basically describes what Amtrak has been doing for several years now. Room prices used to be about 2/3rds of the way between low and high, and a flat rate.
 
I don't think your response is more or less newsworthy. It basically describes what Amtrak has been doing for several years now. Room prices used to be about 2/3rds of the way between low and high, and a flat rate.
Not been my experience. For three years now I have purchased my tickets the day they were released and they have always been low bucket.
 
I too have generally been able to book low-bucket sleeping accommodations 11 months out on both the Empire Builder and the Capitol Limited, even for Christmas and Thanksgiving travel.

Occasionally I have found high-bucket coach prices 11 months out on the Empire Builder.
 
I too have generally been able to book low-bucket sleeping accommodations 11 months out on both the Empire Builder and the Capitol Limited, even for Christmas and Thanksgiving travel.
Occasionally I have found high-bucket coach prices 11 months out on the Empire Builder.
Right now, what is happening on the SWC is not happening on the EB. It is cheaper to go Seattle to Chicago than Albuquerque to Chicago.
 
Having rooms released into the system at high buckets is a good thing. Pax who don't do a lot of research on bucket prices, but who have been planning a trip, anticipate purchasing their tickets as soon as they come out-- thus they pay big bucks while those of us (and who travel frequently likely know by observation) that if we wait a few weeks or months the bucket price is likely to come down.

Of course if people buy rooms at the higher price, then when they drop it to the lower buckets there may not be a low bucket left to book into.

It's quite ingenious, and while I maintain that I can't always travel in sleepers because of high prices, and that sometimes these prices are enough to make me think of other modes of transportation, this can (and has) only benefitted Amtrak, and anything that brings Amtrak more closer to solvency is good for railfans, travelers, and taxpayers.
 
In todays hard economic times a business cannot feel free to raise prices anytime that they wish to do so, That's any business not just Amtrak. A business needs to be cognizant of and recognize the competition. In this case the auto, bus and plane are the competition. If the prices on the sleepers go up sharply, then this months trip will be our last. Prices of many non-essential items are going down. Salaries are going down, unemployment is near 20% and there are bargian airfares galore if you don't mind being treated like a lowlife animal. We will check the price and just go back to auto travel.

Lets see how many sleepers Amtrak sells at high bucket? If they expect me to pay more for ridng in the same worn out, beat up trains, they've got another thing coming. I tell you the consumer will start resisting if exhorbitantly high sleeper prices previail. Wait and see.
 
Lets see how many sleepers Amtrak sells at high bucket? If they expect me to pay more for ridng in the same worn out, beat up trains, they've got another thing coming. I tell you the consumer will start resisting if exhorbitantly high sleeper prices previail. Wait and see.
But that's just it, if Amtrak doesn't sleeper space (or seats in coach) at the higher prices, I'm sure the prices will drop back down. If, however, they ARE able to sell at the higher price, well why not charge that higher price.
 
Not been my experience. For three years now I have purchased my tickets the day they were released and they have always been low bucket.
I'm not saying that there is no change afoot. Just that your response does not seem to be giving you any relevant or new information.

In todays hard economic times a business cannot feel free to raise prices anytime that they wish to do so, That's any business not just Amtrak. A business needs to be cognizant of and recognize the competition. In this case the auto, bus and plane are the competition. If the prices on the sleepers go up sharply, then this months trip will be our last. Prices of many non-essential items are going down. Salaries are going down, unemployment is near 20% and there are bargian airfares galore if you don't mind being treated like a lowlife animal. We will check the price and just go back to auto travel.Lets see how many sleepers Amtrak sells at high bucket? If they expect me to pay more for ridng in the same worn out, beat up trains, they've got another thing coming. I tell you the consumer will start resisting if exhorbitantly high sleeper prices previail. Wait and see.
I'm currently functionally broke. I'm in the process of starting a business that requres more capital investment than I care to think about, and for me, Amtrak raising their prices currently is a solid way to talk me out of a vacation.

That being said, I tend to trust that Amtrak is fairly competent at running their business. Their expansion of travel in this nasty economy so indicates this. If Amtrak does not demonstrate the best possible fiscal performance, Dlagrua, you will find yourself no riding their sleepers at any price. Amtrak has come with a hairsbreadth of being shuttered more than once. Had the tragedy of 9/11/01 not happened, there would likely be none.

I don't like that Amtrak's prices are out of my current ability to afford them. But I accept that because I want Amtrak to be around for me to use during the tenure of my life.
 
Not been my experience. For three years now I have purchased my tickets the day they were released and they have always been low bucket.
I'm not saying that there is no change afoot. Just that your response does not seem to be giving you any relevant or new information.

In todays hard economic times a business cannot feel free to raise prices anytime that they wish to do so, That's any business not just Amtrak. A business needs to be cognizant of and recognize the competition. In this case the auto, bus and plane are the competition. If the prices on the sleepers go up sharply, then this months trip will be our last. Prices of many non-essential items are going down. Salaries are going down, unemployment is near 20% and there are bargian airfares galore if you don't mind being treated like a lowlife animal. We will check the price and just go back to auto travel.Lets see how many sleepers Amtrak sells at high bucket? If they expect me to pay more for ridng in the same worn out, beat up trains, they've got another thing coming. I tell you the consumer will start resisting if exhorbitantly high sleeper prices previail. Wait and see.
I'm currently functionally broke. I'm in the process of starting a business that requres more capital investment than I care to think about, and for me, Amtrak raising their prices currently is a solid way to talk me out of a vacation.

That being said, I tend to trust that Amtrak is fairly competent at running their business. Their expansion of travel in this nasty economy so indicates this. If Amtrak does not demonstrate the best possible fiscal performance, Dlagrua, you will find yourself no riding their sleepers at any price. Amtrak has come with a hairsbreadth of being shuttered more than once. Had the tragedy of 9/11/01 not happened, there would likely be none.

I don't like that Amtrak's prices are out of my current ability to afford them. But I accept that because I want Amtrak to be around for me to use during the tenure of my life.
I am like you-middle class, not wealthy. I also want Amtrak to survive as I feel that anyway to get people off of the crowded and congested highways is a plus. If prices rise sharply this year, next years vacation will come down to affordability. I realize that Amtrak needs to turn a profit but on the other hand how much can they sqeeze out of their customer base before people find other modes of transportation? Another thing to consider is that Amtrak equipment is getting older and worn. To charge more for equipment that has already been paid for 1000 times over is unsustainable.

The problem is that Amtraks labor cost is excessively high. Here people with high school diplomas are being paid more money than college professionals with far better benfits to boot. Its the same with any government job and thats why government is going broke. Its not just Amtrak. Look at the USPS, Social Security, NJT, the NYTA and the school systems, they are all broke because they can't keep costs under control.
 
The problem is that Amtraks labor cost is excessively high. Here people with high school diplomas are being paid more money than college professionals with far better benfits to boot. Its the same with any government job and thats why government is going broke. Its not just Amtrak. Look at the USPS, Social Security, NJT, the NYTA and the school systems, they are all broke because they can't keep costs under control.
They are NOT government jobs... YES Amtrak is kind of a puppet for the US Congress but their employees are not government workers. NJT and the MTA are subsidized public services, similar to Amtrak-- but Amtrak is a fully-fledged corporation whose sole investor is the US Congress.
 
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The problem is that Amtraks labor cost is excessively high. Here people with high school diplomas are being paid more money than college professionals with far better benfits to boot. Its the same with any government job and thats why government is going broke. Its not just Amtrak. Look at the USPS, Social Security, NJT, the NYTA and the school systems, they are all broke because they can't keep costs under control.
No, the problem is your childish assumption that because one has a college education, one is somehow magically entitled to be paid more. Get real.

The wage workers at Amtrak probably work harder than you ever did. Also, afaik Amtrak crew are not generally paid all that much more than crew on the freights.
 
Having rooms released into the system at high buckets is a good thing.
While it might be good for Amtrak, it is not good for me! :rolleyes:
Over a year ago I noticed the same phenomenon with the SWC. 11 months out, fares for March 2010 were uniformly very high, i.e., high with no day to day variation. At the same time, 10 months out February 2010 fares were much lower.

From Amtrak's perspective it makes a lot of sense. Test the waters and if they don't sell, lower the price. It never made sense to me to let summer EB sleepers go cheap unless they had trouble selling them at the high price. But the SWC in March?

This does however represent a change, unless bucketology 101 that every one has been preaching for a long time was phony.
 
Bashing Amtrak employees is old and tired! For years the rich and their puppets, the right wing politicians, have derided Unions and Government employees! Now the corporations and their Republican no nothing paid flacks are claiming "we have to be competetive" ad naseum! Being competetive with countries where people make 30 cents an hour and live in hovels is sure the ticket is it not? Id rather an Amtrak employee make a liveable wage and everyone have health care and enough to eat even if it means paying a little more for the mostly worthless crap everyone is buying cheap @ Wal-Mart and their ilk! ;)
 
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Several months ago I posted a question about where the refurbished Superliners were to be assigned. The reason for the post had to do with the cost of a sleeper on the SWC. My logic had to do with supply and demand relative to cost. If more rooms were available, then Amtrak could make more money by charging a lower rate for each room, thus attacting more customers. I wonder how many more people would take the train if the cost was 20% or 30% less? Without going into fixed cost vs. variable costs analysis here (without the actual numbers) it just seems logical to get more sleepers on the trains that sell out the fastest, price them lower than to currect cost, attact more passengers and make more money!

Of course I know this is a lot easier to talk about than do because Amtrak is not a true supply and demand issue! Just me rambling!
 
Several months ago I posted a question about where the refurbished Superliners were to be assigned. The reason for the post had to do with the cost of a sleeper on the SWC. My logic had to do with supply and demand relative to cost. If more rooms were available, then Amtrak could make more money by charging a lower rate for each room, thus attacting more customers. I wonder how many more people would take the train if the cost was 20% or 30% less? Without going into fixed cost vs. variable costs analysis here (without the actual numbers) it just seems logical to get more sleepers on the trains that sell out the fastest, price them lower than to currect cost, attact more passengers and make more money!
Of course I know this is a lot easier to talk about than do because Amtrak is not a true supply and demand issue! Just me rambling!
I agree with your thinking also. The problem with "rape the market" pricing is that it tends to alienate large segments of your market, who give up on your service and go elsewhere. I've been watching SWC pricing lately myself, noting bedroom pricing from Newton to Chicago in about a month at $577 for a 12 hour ride. And it's been at that price now for four months (yes, I know someone will say "why didn't you book a year out? - well, I try to use the train for business when possible, and booking a year out isn't practical). I did book a economy room for a more reasonable $200, and there are rooms available still on both dates (except Family bedroom, which is sold out on one leg), think I'll try to upgrade on the train.

Sadly, this thread seems destined to go the way of the other sleeper pricing discussion of a week ago. About half the folks wish sleepers were more affordable and could attract more business, the other half saying there's a demand imbalance and Amtrak should price as high as they can. Myself, I'd rather see more affordable service (More being more quantity and lower cost) which would build demand and make Amtrak trains that much harder to cut when someone is trying to eliminate some government program or other.
 
Several months ago I posted a question about where the refurbished Superliners were to be assigned. The reason for the post had to do with the cost of a sleeper on the SWC. My logic had to do with supply and demand relative to cost. If more rooms were available, then Amtrak could make more money by charging a lower rate for each room, thus attacting more customers. I wonder how many more people would take the train if the cost was 20% or 30% less? Without going into fixed cost vs. variable costs analysis here (without the actual numbers) it just seems logical to get more sleepers on the trains that sell out the fastest, price them lower than to currect cost, attact more passengers and make more money!
Of course I know this is a lot easier to talk about than do because Amtrak is not a true supply and demand issue! Just me rambling!
I agree with your thinking also. The problem with "rape the market" pricing is that it tends to alienate large segments of your market, who give up on your service and go elsewhere. I've been watching SWC pricing lately myself, noting bedroom pricing from Newton to Chicago in about a month at $577 for a 12 hour ride. And it's been at that price now for four months (yes, I know someone will say "why didn't you book a year out? - well, I try to use the train for business when possible, and booking a year out isn't practical). I did book a economy room for a more reasonable $200, and there are rooms available still on both dates (except Family bedroom, which is sold out on one leg), think I'll try to upgrade on the train.

Sadly, this thread seems destined to go the way of the other sleeper pricing discussion of a week ago. About half the folks wish sleepers were more affordable and could attract more business, the other half saying there's a demand imbalance and Amtrak should price as high as they can. Myself, I'd rather see more affordable service (More being more quantity and lower cost) which would build demand and make Amtrak trains that much harder to cut when someone is trying to eliminate some government program or other.
But as also pointed out, there is no sleeping car capacity to accomodate that additional demand. So then Amtrak will get it for "not being operated efficiently" for not maximizing return on assets.
 
Sadly, this thread seems destined to go the way of the other sleeper pricing discussion of a week ago. About half the folks wish sleepers were more affordable and could attract more business, the other half saying there's a demand imbalance and Amtrak should price as high as they can. Myself, I'd rather see more affordable service (More being more quantity and lower cost) which would build demand and make Amtrak trains that much harder to cut when someone is trying to eliminate some government program or other.
I don't think that's accurate - I don't think that anyone here would think that enough sleepers to provide for affordable prices and not 100% loading isn't the best solution.
 
I don't think that's accurate - I don't think that anyone here would think that enough sleepers to provide for affordable prices and not 100% loading isn't the best solution.
There was an earlier thread on sleeper pricing where several of us got flamed over not booking a year in advance, using Amtrak Rewards points, etc. I agree Amtrak should strive to earn the maximum realistic amount of revenue from the cars they have, there comes a point where prices get so high that it could undercut Amtrak service as a national service that deserves subsidies.
 
While people, of course, can discuss what they want in this thread, my original intention was to discuss pricing on the SWC in 2011 and to keep tabs on pricing changes.

Just wanted to be clear that I was not intending to create the same conversation as the other threads.
 
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