Hoosier State/Iowa Pacific Transition Thread

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I am so confused. haha

But I guess this is good news?

We'll have to see how this plays out as I'm sure other states are looking very closely at this.
 
I know Florida State will throw a hissy-fit of epic proportions if they were told that they have to start an elaborate railroad department just to fund the operations of SunRail and TriRail. There is absolutely zero logic other than extension of fiefdom in the latest forays of the FRA.

I am sure none of the state that are current operators of their own Commuter rail operations would take kindly to such a suggestion either. I cannot see how FRA can justify such a position just for PRIIA 209 routes and to the exclusion of all other existing state operated passenger operations. PRIIA 209 is relatively small potatoes when compared to the overall size of state funded mainline passenger rail operations.
 
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According to posts on trainorders an inspection of the Iowa Pacific consist proposed for use on Hoosier State took place on the 19th. FRA and Amtrak participated. FRA gave feedback. Amtrak did not. Oddly enough:

The Amtrak representatives told us they were unable to provide feedback. Hopefully they will provide INDOT with a report. Amtrak did inform us that they have inspection standards for this rolling stock that are different from private car standards. INDOT has asked Amtrak to provide the standards, but it appears that whatever standards Amtrak inspected to on Thursday have not yet been provided to the State, let alone the results of the inspection.

So Amtrak has different "standards" which they cannot provide documentation of? Really? Very curious! Do they really have such a documented standard, or are they busy winging it? You know I want to be on Amtrak's side, but they do make it awfully difficult at times. :help:
 
I'll be honest I'm on the side of Iowa Pacific. I'm curious to how this experiment would work with a private company doing this run. And on a bonus for railfans. IP has a nice paint scheme and E units. Welcome to the 1950s passenger train reborn.
 
Hey, it's Amtrak where the culture, from 60 Mass to aboard the trains, is to wing it and make up rules and policies as you go!

I too think IP deserves a shot @ running the Hoosier State, anything is better than the current set up!

They've done pretty well with their charter trips and Amtrak should know they can deliver on what is promised and required!

"Back to the Future" seems to be the coming thing!
 
Good thing the controversial religious freedom law in Indiana has nothing to do with its reluctance to foot the bill for Amtrak heheh. Indiana has been ALL over the news lately. Personally, I cross northern Indiana VERY frequently to get between Illinois & Michigan lol.
 
I'd be interested to see the intermediate steps IP is looking at to get to those 12 trains per day. I know that Ed Ellis is a major proponent of high-frequency corridors as being viable in a way that once/twice-daily trains aren't...but I know (and I suspect that he knows) that this is going to take a few stages.

With that said...$500m for 12x daily service is a pretty cheap price if it actually comes to pass.
 
In order to run 12 trains a day, Indiana will have to purchase the route from CSX, and spend tons of money to double track it, signalize it and increase speeds. I don't see Indiana's tight-fisted legislature opening the purse strings for this. Nothing is going to happen on this route until trip times are equal to highway times. The dome lounge is a nice touch, but is not going to change anything.
 
Good luck trying to get even the one train through they myriad dispatching maze that's south of Chicago Union Station. I wish IP all the best, but it's going to take a miracle, I think, to overcome the routing problems on the South Side of Chicago.
 
In order to run 12 trains a day, Indiana will have to purchase the route from CSX, and spend tons of money to double track it, signalize it and increase speeds. ...
Why would Indiana have to purchase the route?

The St Louis-Chicago 110-mph upgrades for Lincoln Service are being done on a route owned by Union Pacific. Did I miss a whispered mention that the UP is going to go away, or that Illinois will try to buy the line? I don't think so. Doubletracking will be needed there in the next round of investment, but UP will own the underlying land.

Even the South of the Lake (SOTL) project to speed trains Detroit-Chicago thru Indiana will probably be a dedicated 110-mph passenger only track. The route has not been selected yet, but the options are to build all or almost all on existing freight R-O-W, from Chicago to Porter. There the Michigan trains peel off onto the existing 110-mph stretch toward Kalamazoo and Detroit. The Norfolk Southern main line, with the Lake Shore and Capitol Ltd., heads toward Cleveland and points east. So somebody's gonna spend about $1.5 Billion on SOTL, but the freights are gonna own the land.

South of the Lake will also speed trains from Union Station to a place in Indiana, but before Porter, where the Cardinal and Hoosier State will one day make a right turn down to Indianapolis. This project could cut 20 or 30 minutes off the trip time of the Hoosier State and the Cardinal.

Meanwhile, the State of Indiana paid consultants for a study of the Hoosier State.

http://www.in.gov/indot/files/Amtrak_CostBenefitAnalysis_2013.pdf

It's a lousy study that totally ignored any impact on the Cardinal, LOL, and ignored any dollar value of lives lost to highway traffic that could be avoided with better train service, etc. But it did identify about $200 million worth of upgrades within Indiana alone that would chop about 30 minutes off the run time. With two long new sidings just north of Indianapolis and other stuff, the majority of those upgrades should work well with a new connection (SOTL) into Chicago.

Of course, the study indicated that adding one or two more frequencies on a faster trip would double or triple ridership. Currently the Cardinal/Hoosier State leaves Indianapolis at 6 a.m. and arrives Chicago at 10 a.m., a 5-hour trip with damn early wake-up call and a tardy, half-day-lost arrival in the Windy City. Getting to Union Station at 9:30 a.m. would be better, arriving 9 a.m. would be much better. And for us sleepyheads, another departure at 7:30 and another at 10 a.m. would be great.

I'm kind of with the Indiana politicians who don't want to sink $200 million into upgrades to get only one or two more trains each way. Certainly not without a lot of those hated federal dollars. LOL.

But if Iowa Pacific gets ready to run 12 trains a day, then an investment of $200 to $500 million by somebody could be a good deal. For Amtrak, for a daily Cardinal, and for connecting trains at the Chicago hub, shaving an hour or so off Cincinnati-Indianapolis-Chicago (and sharing some costs as well) would be sweet broadus.

Now we only need a federal program to invest a few Billion into various routes and projects like SOTL and upgrading the Hoosier State route, and then watch ridership soar.
 
... I don't see Indiana's tight-fisted legislature opening the purse strings for this...

I live in Indiana and I certainly understand and have experienced this sentiment. Still in two years we've gone from 0 state dollars to 3 million state dollars being contributed. Sure that's relatively small, but for Indiana that was a huge movement. Obviously it took a crazy amount of work with the cities funding the train and what not, but the result was state funding. In the future the conversation will hopefully be not whether to fund (though I'm sure that will come up) but how much, and if IP does a good job and gets more people riding, well that's potentially more people in favor of supporting/increasing support for the train.
 
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In order to run 12 trains a day, Indiana will have to purchase the route from CSX, and spend tons of money to double track it, signalize it and increase speeds. I don't see Indiana's tight-fisted legislature opening the purse strings for this. Nothing is going to happen on this route until trip times are equal to highway times. The dome lounge is a nice touch, but is not going to change anything.
Even New York has not purchased the route from CSX for running way more than 12 trains a day between New york and Albany. It is only recently that they leased it. Similarly California has not purchased the Capitol Corridor from UP. So why would Indiana have to purchase the route from CSX?
 
Just as a question, but assuming IP got a long-term agreement with Indiana on service, would they be eligible for RRIF funding for something like this?
 
In order to run 12 trains a day, Indiana will have to purchase the route from CSX, and spend tons of money to double track it, signalize it and increase speeds. ...
Why would Indiana have to purchase the route?
The St Louis-Chicago 110-mph upgrades for Lincoln Service are being done on a route owned by Union Pacific. Did I miss a whispered mention that the UP is going to go away, or that Illinois will try to buy the line? I don't think so. Doubletracking will be needed there in the next round of investment, but UP will own the underlying land.

Even the South of the Lake (SOTL) project to speed trains Detroit-Chicago thru Indiana will probably be a dedicated 110-mph passenger only track. The route has not been selected yet, but the options are to build all or almost all on existing freight R-O-W, from Chicago to Porter. There the Michigan trains peel off onto the existing 110-mph stretch toward Kalamazoo and Detroit. The Norfolk Southern main line, with the Lake Shore and Capitol Ltd., heads toward Cleveland and points east. So somebody's gonna spend about $1.5 Billion on SOTL, but the freights are gonna own the land.

South of the Lake will also speed trains from Union Station to a place in Indiana, but before Porter, where the Cardinal and Hoosier State will one day make a right turn down to Indianapolis. This project could cut 20 or 30 minutes off the trip time of the Hoosier State and the Cardinal.

Meanwhile, the State of Indiana paid consultants for a study of the Hoosier State.

http://www.in.gov/indot/files/Amtrak_CostBenefitAnalysis_2013.pdf

It's a lousy study that totally ignored any impact on the Cardinal, LOL, and ignored any dollar value of lives lost to highway traffic that could be avoided with better train service, etc. But it did identify about $200 million worth of upgrades within Indiana alone that would chop about 30 minutes off the run time. With two long new sidings just north of Indianapolis and other stuff, the majority of those upgrades should work well with a new connection (SOTL) into Chicago.

Of course, the study indicated that adding one or two more frequencies on a faster trip would double or triple ridership. Currently the Cardinal/Hoosier State leaves Indianapolis at 6 a.m. and arrives Chicago at 10 a.m., a 5-hour trip with damn early wake-up call and a tardy, half-day-lost arrival in the Windy City. Getting to Union Station at 9:30 a.m. would be better, arriving 9 a.m. would be much better. And for us sleepyheads, another departure at 7:30 and another at 10 a.m. would be great.

I'm kind of with the Indiana politicians who don't want to sink $200 million into upgrades to get only one or two more trains each way. Certainly not without a lot of those hated federal dollars. LOL.

But if Iowa Pacific gets ready to run 12 trains a day, then an investment of $200 to $500 million by somebody could be a good deal. For Amtrak, for a daily Cardinal, and for connecting trains at the Chicago hub, shaving an hour or so off Cincinnati-Indianapolis-Chicago (and sharing some costs as well) would be sweet broadus.

Now we only need a federal program to invest a few Billion into various routes and projects like SOTL and upgrading the Hoosier State route, and then watch ridership soar.
Where's this "right turn" that passenger trains would take off the South the Lake line to Indianapolis? Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District (NICTD) has plans to reopen the former Monon Route from Dyer north through Munster to Hammond and a connection to the current South Shore, so I guess Amtrak could use that, but that has nothing to do with the South of the Lake route.

I don't think Iowa Pacific has $200 to $500 million dollars to implement those 12 trains a day. That will have to come from Indiana or the feds.

It's amazing Indiana is even coming up with $3 million for the Hoosier State. That's a long way from $200 to $500 million.

Illinois should have bought the Chicago-St. Louis line when it was owned by the Chicago, Missouri and Western. It could have been picked up for a song. Now UP has a big intermodal yard south of Joliet and is running more freight than ever on the former GM&O. Right now, the agreement with UP calls for only three trains in each direction to run at 110 mph. After taking all of Illinois' money, UP might not want to expand passenger service to say, hourly operation, because its intermodals will be delayed.

But I'm sure CSX will be happy to cooperate with expanded Chi-Indy service, just like they do everywhere else. (That's sarcasm, folks)
 
I've been following threads on this situation in several forums. There has been a lot of information and speculation posted. I am eagerly anticipating riding Iowa Pacific's equipment on this route. Do I understand correctly that this is to start May 1, 2015? If not, is there an actual start date?

Thank you.
 
I've been following threads on this situation in several forums. There has been a lot of information and speculation posted. I am eagerly anticipating riding Iowa Pacific's equipment on this route. Do I understand correctly that this is to start May 1, 2015? If not, is there an actual start date?

Thank you.
I don't know about May 1. IP has just posted 4 jobs in connection with this service.
 
Karl Browning, the Indiana Department of Transportation Commissioner who has been handling the transition of the Hooiser State abruptly resigned on Wednesday, April 22nd.

Corridor Capital, which was named as the original preferred vendor for the transition has posted a statement on its website along with a link to the Indianapolis Star newspaper story about Commissioner Browning's departure.

http://www.ccrail.com
 
From what I've been reading, Karl Browning was not very much in favor of continuing the operation at all between CHI and IND. Perhaps he was disenchanted that the rail plan has been advancing, and left with a bad taste in his mouth as a result. Just a guess.
 
What happens with the Hoosier State equipment on the days it does not operate?
 
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