Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[jis]

The current trend in the world seems to be to buy articulated train sets at least for short and medium distance corridor service, specially involving day trains. I can't see Amtrak going that route any time soon.

Many LD trains elsewhere are still individual cars hooked up together to form trains, and it is not unusual for them to be unmatched in color though often they are matched in car design, simply because of different operational characteristics of cars as in max speed, electrical compatibility, braking system compatibility etc. etc. In case of Amtrak those sorts of things are all standardized, so they can basically connect up whatever cars they have with appropriate types of accommodation into a train, except for the dichotomy between single level and bi-level.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Only railfans can have an appreciation for aesthetics and design?

Paying customers rarely do.

While airline customers moan and groan about lack of seat space (seat width, leg room, etc), they will eagerly buy a ticket on an airline what gives them even less space, if the ticket was a $1 less.

 

[jis]

Only railfans can have an appreciation for aesthetics and design?

Paying customers rarely do.

While airline customers moan and groan about lack of seat space (seat width, leg room, etc), they will eagerly buy a ticket on an airline what gives them even less space, if the ticket was a $1 less.

Moreover they will also happily get confused and try to get on a plane of another airline going in the opposite direction too. Some of their cluelessness is a sight to behold!

 

[PVD]

Most of the pros and cons of VL design and matching sets will mean nothing since the agreements for financing of any single level replacements will likely involve new RFP, and NGEC standards as a starting point. Did a trip on the Crescent last month, Northbound out of Atlanta had a P42, a Dash 8, a VL2 bag, VL sleepers, A1 BC, A2 coaches, VL prototype diner. The room was clean, food was pretty good, switched to an ACS-64 in WAS, got in 20 mins early. Nothing matched, think more than a couple of folks noticed? Even less actually cared. I like the VL sleepers, and the airiness of the VL diner was pleasant, but there is too much that needs to be changed for the design to go forward as it stands today.

 

[Gulfwind2]

Matching consists are meaningless if the equipment needs to be thawed out in the winters due to its lack of ruggedness.

While the airiness of the Viewliner design may work beautifully in a lounge car setting, I agree that a newer and more effective design would work best for a round of Amfleet II coach replacements. I would rate the best candidate as being a variant of the Siemens coaches which are being built for Brightline. While we have no way thus far of gauging their winter-proofing abilities, we do know that the cars are ADA-accessible, have lots of at-seat power outlets, and ample windows. Considering that most folks spend their entire trips with eyes glued to their electronics, a car with said features may ultimately be the way to go rather than a design which forgoes utilitarian necessities such as larger luggage in favor of the double row of windows.

 

[PVD]

We pretty much know what the baseline specs are, they have been published. The "cone of silence" seems to be dropping over some of the latest revisions, and the option is there for carrier specific or purpose specific modifications as necessary. That being said, weight vs structural requirements need to be reconciled, and as the years march on, there will be items that will need to be modernized. Fluorescent lighting has mostly given way to LED, USB charging and wireless are no longer considered wishlist items, to point out a few.

 

[Seaboard92]

The cars Siemens is building for Brightline is very similar to the cars they built for ÖBB Railjet trains so they should be good for winter operations. Considering that they can handle Austrian Alpine routes.

 

[hastybob]

While everyone was discussing the lack of uniform trainsets, etc; the 68001 sneaked out of Florida a couple of days ago on 98 headed to New York and today to Albany. Don't think it is heading back to CAF. Looks like a road test and maybe some publicity!

 

[jis]

It is apparently some sort of a group, possibly press, run or something. It comes off at Albany and returns to New York tomorrow at the rear of 234(17), then deadhes back to Miami by 97(17).

 

[StriderGDM]

Dang, I'm going to miss it at Albany then. :-(

 

[neroden]

I cannot understand the AU fascination with the insistence on an outdated V2 design instead of just stating the requirements in the RFP and asking the manufacturer to provide the best modern design they can, like everyone else does. Sort of like was done with the Acela II RFP. Put in a stipulation retaining the non-exclusive ability to use the design for further orders in the future. All reputable large systems in the world do that.

I think everyone likes the exterior profile of the V2 and likes the second row of windows. As such, specifying those as requirements in the RFP is a reasonable thing to do, particularly for any lounge/cafe cars.

 

[neroden]

Matching trainsets were quite far from the norm pre-Amtrak.

The exterior profiles were actually *highly* standardized throughout most of the 19th century. There are basically two periods:

-- The old curved roof, with open platforms on each end (sometimes only on one end)

-- The clerestory roof, with open platforms on each end (later, closed platforms)

These two profiles were practically uniform from one railroad to another.

This standardization only started going away with "streamliners" and the conversion of clerestory cars to air-conditioned cars, rounding off the clerestory roof.

It was very normal to have different paint schemes and cars of different lengths, but on the whole even a very mixed passenger train presented a highly uniform appearance due to the consistent profile. Throughout the 19th century.

With the exception of certain "special" trains, the next period (early 20th century) actually had pretty consistent car profiles too; this is the straight-side, rounded-top, fully-enclosed-vestibules period, with a profile which resulted from closing up the clerestories with rounded pieces. Still a lot of those running in private car service (far more than from the earlier two periods, which are typically only represented at museums, and often not even then). Even dome cars typically adhere to the same profile as this with the exception of the protruding dome.

(I'm sure the consistent profile had a lot to do with standard clearance plates.)

It's only after 1945 that we had stuff like the Santa Fe Hi-Levels and the Metroliners, which resulted in highly mismatched carriage profiles.

 

[Seaboard92]

There are some heavyweights that have rounded roof and clerestory style on them. If you look at the Dover Harbor one side is rounded and the other is clerestory.

As far as cars the profiles in the streamliner era are very similar but there are some distinctions too. Pullman Standard vs Budd fluting doesn't quite match up. Budd fluting continued on the roof.

And as far as domes there is a uniform dome height. But there are exceptions to the rule for instance the B&O has low profile domes. Some had flat Windows and not rounded. The three car builders also had different methods of designing the car.

And then there are three different types of domes as well. There are vista domes which generally seat 24 and have a better 360 degree view. These are what VIA operates. Then there are 3/4 domes which were half Budd and half PS cars only used by the Southern Pacific. And they had an atrium with a 18 foot tall ceiling. And one is in operation in Panama. The last dime is a full dome which is a dome Over the entire car body. It's more like a superliner as far as viewing. This is what IP operates on the Hoosier State.

My source: I work on these cars as PVs.

 

[Thirdrail7]

While everyone was discussing the lack of uniform trainsets, etc; the 68001 sneaked out of Florida a couple of days ago on 98 headed to New York and today to Albany. Don't think it is heading back to CAF. Looks like a road test and maybe some publicity!

How did it "sneak out" of Florida when it was mentioned in this thread the day before it left? Additionally, there was discussion in the chat room Sunday night about when it was going, when it was coming back, on what train and the next projected release.

Perhaps you should hang around more often.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

There are some heavyweights that have rounded roof and clerestory style on them. If you look at the Dover Harbor one side is rounded and the other is clerestory.

As far as cars the profiles in the streamliner era are very similar but there are some distinctions too. Pullman Standard vs Budd fluting doesn't quite match up. Budd fluting continued on the roof.

And as far as domes there is a uniform dome height. But there are exceptions to the rule for instance the B&O has low profile domes. Some had flat Windows and not rounded. The three car builders also had different methods of designing the car.

And then there are three different types of domes as well. There are vista domes which generally seat 24 and have a better 360 degree view. These are what VIA operates. Then there are 3/4 domes which were half Budd and half PS cars only used by the Southern Pacific. And they had an atrium with a 18 foot tall ceiling. And one is in operation in Panama. The last dime is a full dome which is a dome Over the entire car body. It's more like a superliner as far as viewing. This is what IP operates on the Hoosier State.

My source: I work on these cars as PVs.

I always find Post War mixed Heavyweight/Streamlined consists to be most interesting and if I recall, some of the heavyweights (GM&O?) survived into the early days of Amtrak.

Is there an Espee 3/4 Dome still running somewhere? That is a neat car!

 

[Brian Battuello]

It is apparently some sort of a group, possibly press, run or something. It comes off at Albany and returns to New York tomorrow at the rear of 234(17), then deadhes back to Miami by 97(17).

Dang, if I wasn't still in my pajamas I might be able to catch it at Croton. If a few more leaves fell off, I'd be able to see it from my front porch.

And I didn't know that there was one Empire Service train (234) that can't be bothered to stop in Croton. Guess they have to save platform space for Metro-North commuters!

 

[Palmetto]

234 doesn't make Poughkeepsie either. A nice ride for those boarding at Rhinecliff!

 

[PVD]

237 is the Northbound equivalent. It also skips Yonkers, Croton and Poughkeepsie going back to Albany

 

[Seaboard92]

Is there an Espee 3/4 Dome still running somewhere? That is a neat car!

There is one in current operation on the Panama Canal Railway down in Panama in regular service. Several others were preserved actually but those all need some work. And it's unlikely we will see that because of their odd construction.

 

[jis]

Is there an Espee 3/4 Dome still running somewhere? That is a neat car!

There is one in current operation on the Panama Canal Railway down in Panama in regular service. Several others were preserved actually but those all need some work. And it's unlikely we will see that because of their odd construction.

Seaboard, where are the preserved ones currently located, in case you have that info? Thanks.

 

[Seaboard92]

Is there an Espee 3/4 Dome still running somewhere? That is a neat car!

There is one in current operation on the Panama Canal Railway down in Panama in regular service. Several others were preserved actually but those all need some work. And it's unlikely we will see that because of their odd construction.

Seaboard, where are the preserved ones currently located, in case you have that info? Thanks.

SP 3602 is listed at Golden Gate Rail Museum but also listed for sale. But in poor condition. As of 2011SP 3603 operating on the Panama Canal Railroad train between Panama City and Colon once daily. It's in a classy Kansas City Southern Belle paint.

SP 3604 was last used on the Minnesota Zephyr in Stillwater. But has since been sold so I'll have to track it down. It was in operating shape.

SP 3605 is stored at Cannon City and Royal Gorge Railroad. Been in storage since 2005 due to them buying ex ATSF full domes. Stored in poor condition.

SP 3606 is at a shopping center near Rocklin, CA

SP 3600, 3601 both are scrapped.

 

[pennyk]

FYI, I saw the 8400 diner on today's 98 as it rolled through Orlando a few blocks from my home.

 

[Agent]

SP 3604 was last used on the Minnesota Zephyr in Stillwater. But has since been sold so I'll have to track it down. It was in operating shape.

If I remember correctly, the Minnesota Zephyr cars were bought by Iowa Pacific and moved to Colorado (as seen below).

 

[Agent]

This video posted today by YouTube user Monica Matos shows Annapolis on train #234 heading toward Penn Station this morning.

 

[bretton88]

This video posted today by YouTube user Monica Matos shows Annapolis on train #234 heading toward Penn Station this morning.

Hopefully not being returned to the factory for more fixes.