New Amtrak Moynihan train hall at NYP

[jis]

It is a good thing, for sure! Hopefully, they can get funding for the rest of Penn. That would be very cool.

The main problem in the old Penn Station is that it is hard to raise the ceiling too much without first removing Madison Square Garden from above it. That will take quite a bit of doing, specially in terms of wheeling dealing with real estate folks, and a new home has to be found for MSG.

 

[jiml]

Jay-walking in NYC? Heaven forbid!

It would take a massive increase to notice any difference.

The last few times I've been there, W 33rd was in one of the following conditions:
1. One-way.
2. A maze of concrete barriers and dumpsters, restricting traffic flow to very low speed.
3. Closed between 8th and 9th Avenues (for construction).
All these made crossing anywhere a breeze.

If it's back in normal operation and potentially busier with the new Train Hall open (taxis, etc.), just wondered if it would make sense to exit the station at a corner and cross at the lights?

 

[neroden]

I've been staring at all the new Moynihan Train Hall photos for several hours and I finally managed to spot the elevators.

They're in front of the "Ticketed Waiting Room". A nice neat line of them, leading to tracks 7 through 17. (The elevator to tracks 5 and 6 could not be seen in the pictures; I believe it's around the corner on the southern ramp from the street into the train hall.)

This is going to massively improve the experience for Amtrak passengers who need the elevator, such as wheelchair users. The previous pathways practically required assistance from a Red Cap. You had to go down to the "Exit Concourse" first, through a single elevator which acted as a bottleneck since people going to all tracks had to use it, and then find the somewhat-inconsistently-placed elevator for your track, in a corridor which didn't really have decent information displays. Combined with Amtrak's notoriously late posting of tracks, this meant that you were unlikely to make it to the train on time if you moved slowly -- unless you had a Red Cap leading you who had a walkie-talkie. Even if you DID, I remember being led to one elevator and then having the Red Cap get new information and lead us back to a different elevator!

Now the process for Amtrak boarding via the elevator will be *normal*, like it is in other stations. All the elevators are accessible from the same Train Hall, in a nice neat line, with information displays visible.

 

[John Bobinyec]

The main problem in the old Penn Station is that it is hard to raise the ceiling too much without first removing Madison Square Garden from above it. That will take quite a bit of doing, specially in terms of wheeling dealing with real estate folks, and a new home has to be found for MSG.

As welcome as the new improvements will be, I think I would have preferred to have MSG relocated to Farley followed by a rebuild of Penn Station. With the improvements as they are, I'm wondering what kind of significant improvements can be made at NYP.

jb

 

[John Santos]

I don't think much can be done about the physical layout of NYP, but having passed through it 20 or 30 times, I still find it incredible confusing.

The lighting, signage, passageways and amenities (bathrooms, etc.) could be drastically improved. Pretty much stuck with the low ceilings and confusing multi-level layout unless they tear down MSG. A spot of paint and more comfortable waiting areas (especially for the 66/67) would improve things a lot.

 

[STT757]

Two questions:

Has Amtrak totally vacated Penn Station or do some passenger service remain.
Will NJ Transit get to expand their footprint into Amtrak's space in Penn?

 

[adamj023]

Two questions:

Has Amtrak totally vacated Penn Station or do some passenger service remain.
Will NJ Transit get to expand their footprint into Amtrak's space in Penn?

Both Amtrak sections are here to stay but most services will be migrated to the new section except from 1AM to 5AM when the old section will be open for Amtrak and the new section will be closed.

Amtrak shares the new section with the LIRR and Amtrak now shares the old section with NJ Transit. Amtrak used to have a separate section than NJ Transit such as the waiting area which had the waiting area integrated between the two. There will be ongoing work to modernize the old section of Penn Station.

Anyone can go to any section of the train station on either side, new or old, if they already know the track number but some NJ Transit tracks only can be reached with the old section.

I presume red cap services for instance will only be available at the new section except for 1AM to 5AM when it will be at the old one but its possible for Amtrak to keep services at both sections if demand is warranted.

 

[20th Century Rider]

It is hard to believe that the new Moynihan train hall will finally be ready soon which will make using Amtrak at Penn Station in NYC so much nicer in every way including the new Metropolitan Lounge! I hope they improve boarding procedures. I presume NJ Transit will take over the existing space as NJ Transit which built their facilities in former Amtrak office spaces was a very tight space although I assume Amtrak customers will still be able to access the tracks from the older facility. The Moynihan train hall will be the busiest Amtrak facility and will definitely improve Amtrak and be used to showcase the new Avelia Liberty trains which also will be in service in the not too distant future. I have vivid memories of taking Amtrak in the old section with the Solari board still in place and the round hallway section. It was very disappointing for a first class city like New York City.

Wow! This is firing up the impulse juices to get on the train and travel to New York... a railroader's paradise! I just cancelled my trip out east scheduled for January... because I want to survive the Covid crisis and live to travel some more... a lot more... on America's fine railroads. May this new station inspire the 'wheels of government' and Amtrak Joe to bring a new era of travel to the rails; with the added bonus opportunities for all of us to view magnificent and historic scenery while supporting environmental preservation.

Let us all keep our fingers crossed that 2021 marks a new beginning for Amtrak!

 

[lordsigma]

I’m planning a day trip to check it out once I get over Covid before I go back to work. The photos so far look great. At one point it looked like they are planning to staff both temporarily for agents and red caps for a transitionary period.

 

[adamj023]

From the videos posted, doesn’t seem like the new hall is getting that much actual commuter usage. A few people showing up just to check out the new train hall. I realize the pandemic is going on. I didn’t notice any homeless in the main train hall videos but they are all over the old part of the station sleeping on the floors and stairwells. It is disgusting,

During the pandemic I suggest they shut dow the old part of the station completely sans the NJ Transit and Amtrak side and leave a corridor available to connect between the old and new sections. They can use this time to rebuild the station faster and keep the station cleaner. The homeless and crime problem needs to be rectified at Penn Station.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

The station has a ton of homeless and a huge crime problem now. I hope they improve security with the new Train Hall.

That might be why, in an attempt to address the homeless problem, that the new MTH will be closed 1AM to 5AM. No overnight stays for anyone.

Though, as I feel in other situations like this, that they have a plan in place to deal with the homeless in a more humane way than simply pushing them out onto the cold streets.

 

[railiner]

That might be why, in an attempt to address the homeless problem, that the new MTH will be closed 1AM to 5AM. No overnight stays for anyone.

Though, as I feel in other situations like this, that they have a plan in place to deal with the homeless in a more humane way than simply pushing them out onto the cold streets.

From what has been reported, the old section of Penn Station would still be open.

That said, I cannot understand why housing the homeless should be a railroad's problem...it should be the city's problem, and the city should solve it.

The Port Authority Bus Terminal had it much worse a couple of decades ago, and they solved it...they brought in special homeless outreach worker's, who treated the homeless compassionately, and found a place for them to go for whatever help they required.

 

[daybeers]

From the videos posted, doesn’t seem like the new hall is getting that much actual commuter usage. A few people showing up just to check out the new train hall. I realize the pandemic is going on. I didn’t notice any homeless in the main train hall videos but they are all over the old part of the station sleeping on the floors and stairwells. It is disgusting,

During the pandemic I suggest they shut dow the old part of the station completely sans the NJ Transit and Amtrak side and leave a corridor available to connect between the old and new sections. They can use this time to rebuild the station faster and keep the station cleaner. The homeless and crime problem needs to be rectified at Penn Station.

Where is there crime in Penn Station, and why does the fact that a human being, just the same as you and me, have so little that they have to sleep inside a train station somehow make you uncomfortable? It's disgusting that you refer to the victims of countless systematic failures of society as disgusting.

Maybe some of the $1.6 billion that was spent on this project that you have previously objected to could be spent on actual housing, job centers, and low-income transportation options instead of lining the pockets of MTA executives, politicians, and contractors.

I for one think it's disgusting the MTA has chosen to close the new train hall between 1am and 5am. Sure, it saves a few bucks on staffing, but that's not what they care about. "Out of sight, out of mind" is nearly every politician's motto, especially when it comes to homelessness.

Homelessness and poverty is an epidemic in the United States, just like its healthcare, infrastructure, transportation, justice, housing, equality, education, food, political, and labor systems, among many others. They're all connected and there is not a place in the country where these issues don't exist on some level, but rather usually exist in a disastrous way. Maybe if we spent a little less on overly flashy projects and already extremely well-funded aspects of government, we could begin to fix these systemic issues plaguing what some call "the greatest nation in the world" and everyone could benefit, not just those who already have more than enough.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Worst crime I’ve ever seen in Penn Station was a group of cops tackle a black man while he was walking towards the waiting room. He was walking slow, did not appear suspicious, or dangerous.

He kept yelling “help” and “ I can’t breathe” - this was before Eric Garner.

What’s the worst crime you’ve seen in New York penn @adamj023 ?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Worst crime I’ve ever seen in Penn Station was a group of cops tackle a black man while he was walking towards the waiting room. He was walking slow, did not appear suspicious, or dangerous.

He kept yelling “help” and “ I can’t breathe” - this was before Eric Garner.

What’s the worst crime you’ve seen in New York penn @adamj023 ?

Thd worst Crime I saw @ NYP was the 2004 Republican National Convention. Lol

 

[user 6862]

Where is there crime in Penn Station, and why does the fact that a human being, just the same as you and me, have so little that they have to sleep inside a train station somehow make you uncomfortable? It's disgusting that you refer to the victims of countless systematic failures of society as disgusting.

Maybe some of the $1.6 billion that was spent on this project that you have previously objected to could be spent on actual housing, job centers, and low-income transportation options instead of lining the pockets of MTA executives, politicians, and contractors.

I for one think it's disgusting the MTA has chosen to close the new train hall between 1am and 5am. Sure, it saves a few bucks on staffing, but that's not what they care about. "Out of sight, out of mind" is nearly every politician's motto, especially when it comes to homelessness.

Homelessness and poverty is an epidemic in the United States, just like its healthcare, infrastructure, transportation, justice, housing, equality, education, food, political, and labor systems, among many others. They're all connected and there is not a place in the country where these issues don't exist on some level, but rather usually exist in a disastrous way. Maybe if we spent a little less on overly flashy projects and already extremely well-funded aspects of government, we could begin to fix these systemic issues plaguing what some call "the greatest nation in the world" and everyone could benefit, not just those who already have more than enough.

Thank you for writing this post, it's a stunning description of where society could do better. I think all the issues you mention are similar elswhere in other countries, there is failure to one degree or another in most wealthy nations I've visited.

Maybe adamj023 doesn't understand how many of the 'homeless' get to be homeless, it is not as obvious as many think and not easy to understand that many are genuine victims of family or society.

Well done to you.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I don't think much can be done about the physical layout of NYP, but having passed through it 20 or 30 times, I still find it incredible confusing. The lighting, signage, passageways and amenities (bathrooms, etc.) could be drastically improved.

NYP's layout is heavily obfuscated by the cement ceilings and the signage is needlessly convoluted. If you look at the original design you can see that basic orientation and path finding would have been much easier back when travel was the focus but the Madison Square Dungeon made it clear that the passenger rail component was a negative priority built to a price and schedule for minimal impact. MSG is privately owned but the City of New York can decline to renew the operating permit in 2023 if they're willing to start a fight with another petulant billionaire.

https://gothamist.com/news/what-if-nyc-evicted-madison-square-garden

I didn’t notice any homeless in the main train hall videos but they are all over the old part of the station sleeping on the floors and stairwells. It is disgusting[...]The homeless and crime problem needs to be rectified at Penn Station.

Homelessness and crime are often symptoms of other causes like drug addiction, insufficient mental health services, aggressively restrictive hiring practices, excessively regimented assistance programs, inability to cover rent or secure a loan on minimum wage, and a real estate market that caters to speculative investing and wealth management over housing our citizens. Which of these issues would you prefer to tackle first?

 

[frequentflyer]

From a post replying to me over on Rail.net.

The new station will be a fitting way for Amtrak travelers to enter and leave NYC. Majority going of NYC visitors coming by train will be on Amtrak. Some criticizing the new facility are a few NJT travelers who will not look up from their cell phones as they enter the Penn Station dungeon till they get to the tracks .Majority of NJT and other locals just want to get on the train and head to their suburban homes and care less about the station aesthetics.

 

[MARC Rider]

The station has a ton of homeless and a huge crime problem now.

What are you talking about? You need to read up a bit about Georgian London, or the East End of London in the Victorian period if you want tp know what a "huge crime problem" is like.

I've never been bothered by homeless people in New York Penn Station, and I've never been a crime victim there. On the other hand, my car, parked outside my suburban home, has been broken into a couple of time, fortunately, they were to dumb to actually steal it, and I've has a lawn mover stolen from my shed in the back yard.

 

[MARC Rider]

I don't think much can be done about the physical layout of NYP, but having passed through it 20 or 30 times, I still find it incredible confusing.

The lighting, signage, passageways and amenities (bathrooms, etc.) could be drastically improved. Pretty much stuck with the low ceilings and confusing multi-level layout unless they tear down MSG. A spot of paint and more comfortable waiting areas (especially for the 66/67) would improve things a lot.

I once found a map of the station, and the layout is actually pretty simple, being a rectangle with one cross passage. The fact that it's has 2 levels of gates above the platform can perhaps confuse some people. I still get a little disoriented because the track directions are east/west, whereas the major avenues above go north/south. Thus, when I'm underground, I find it hard to tell whether I'm heading for 31st st. or 34th st. or 8th Ave or 7th Ave. The Club Acela is by 31st and 8th Ave., the public restrooms in the Amtrak concourse are by 33rd and 8th Ave. I finally realized the the main Amtrak concourse is located right up by 8th Avenue., and you need to walk across the station past the NJT waiting area to get to 7th Ave.

 

[flitcraft]

People who are experiencing homelessness can't easily be categorized into a few simple quick stereotypes. Low wage jobs today cannot provide a living wage that will prevent homelessness. Even minimum wage jobs are rapidly disappearing. We have no comprehensive safety net for people with mental illness and drug dependence. The run-up of property prices have made rents unaffordable. COVID had made traditional barracks-like shelters unsafe. Meanwhile, the number of people in my city depending on food banks for basic subsistence food has tripled since the pandemic started. The solutions for all of the sources of homelessness will require multiple strategies and resources. It's upsetting to see tent cities sprouting in city parks, but it's even more upsetting to have to live in them.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

People who are experiencing homelessness can't easily be categorized into a few simple quick stereotypes. Low wage jobs today cannot provide a living wage that will prevent homelessness. Even minimum wage jobs are rapidly disappearing. We have no comprehensive safety net for people with mental illness and drug dependence. The run-up of property prices have made rents unaffordable. COVID had made traditional barracks-like shelters unsafe. Meanwhile, the number of people in my city depending on food banks for basic subsistence food has tripled since the pandemic started. The solutions for all of the sources of homelessness will require multiple strategies and resources. It's upsetting to see tent cities sprouting in city parks, but it's even more upsetting to have to live in them.

My county recently purchased a vacant hotel on the outskirt of our biggest city to provide rooms to homeless during the night. I don’t know all the details but I think it’s geared to those who have, or looking for, low paying jobs but no place to sleep and get cleaned up.

https://whyy.org/articles/swamp-hot...le-county-for-19-5m-to-serve-homeless-people/

 

[johnmiller]

Wow! This is firing up the impulse juices to get on the train and travel to New York... a railroader's paradise! I just cancelled my trip out east scheduled for January... because I want to survive the Covid crisis and live to travel some more... a lot more... on America's fine railroads. May this new station inspire the 'wheels of government' and Amtrak Joe to bring a new era of travel to the rails; with the added bonus opportunities for all of us to view magnificent and historic scenery while supporting environmental preservation.

Let us all keep our fingers crossed that 2021 marks a new beginning for Amtrak!

I'm personally waiting for: 1.) To have received both shots of the COVID vaccine, and 2.) For regular dining to return before I travel to NYP again.

 

[20th Century Rider]

I'm personally waiting for: 1.) To have received both shots of the COVID vaccine, and 2.) For regular dining to return before I travel to NYP again.

And I would add to that list, 1] better standards for Amtrak Employees, 2] better standards for Amtrak customers, 3] new rolling stock with ventilation systems that work and windows that open a crack for fresh air in roomettes and bedrooms, and 4] the promise of clean, cleaner, cleanest restrooms for all to use.

 

[Bob Dylan]

My county recently purchased a vacant hotel on the outskirt of our biggest city to provide rooms to homeless during the night. I don’t know all the details but I think it’s geared to those who have, or looking for, low paying jobs but no place to sleep and get cleaned up.

https://whyy.org/articles/swamp-hot...le-county-for-19-5m-to-serve-homeless-people/

The City of Austin has purchased 4 Motel/ Hotels for Homeless people and has been able to Rent Long Stay Rooms to house the ever increasing Homeless which includes many Families who have lost their jobs during the Pandemic.( Austin is heavily dependent on Service Industries that depend on Visitors that arent coming )

Our Food Bank has seen a tripling of the amount of Food they distribute weekly and a ten fold increase in eviction lawsuits filed even though they are once again temporarily stayed during the current surge of the COVID scurge!

Are we our brothers keeper? Most people supposedly think so, but some politicians and their wealthy owners dont seem to feel this way and for sure dont act that way!