Amtrak dining and cafe service

[me_little_me]

Another option. Junk the terrible Flex meals and offer good microwavable meals. Here's the difference. The passenger would order their meal(s)s when they purchased their ticket. Amtrak could offer more variety and keep waste to a bare minimum. The meals could be available to sleeper passengers and included in the ticket price, or not included at all. If not included in the ticket price, then any passenger (sleeper or coach) could order their meal(s) in advance, at their option. When stocking the diner for a trip, the meals would be loaded, refrigerated, and identified by the passenger and/or room number, but already paid for. Amtrak could keep extra meals on hand at all times in case a passenger changed his/her mind during travel or if the train was running late. However, when the extra meals for that trip are all gone, they're all gone.

The food has to be of a higher quality or this doesn't work. No one will want to pay in advance for a meal that quality-wise, is no better than the current offering.

If implemented as stated above, everybody wins. The passenger has the option to buy a meal or not, gets more selections, and tastier food. Amtrak gets the benefit of satisfied customers, meals prepaid, less waste and inventory, which equates to lower cost. The online menu could be ever-changing since the meals are prepared and paid for in advance. This would alleviate the issue of having to eat the same meals over a period of days if on a long LD trip. It should also reduce the cost of a sleeper ticket if not included in the ticket price.

If a passenger paid for a meal in advance and did not travel, provided the trip was canceled within a prescribed time, the price paid for the meal could be refunded along with the ticket price.

Obviously, there would be some bugs to work out. Experience and time should supply remedies.

Just a thought.

So could you explain why the meals should be microwaveable instead of heated in a convection oven?

 

[20th Century Rider]

Another option. Junk the terrible Flex meals and offer good microwavable meals. Here's the difference. The passenger would order their meal(s)s when they purchased their ticket. Amtrak could offer more variety and keep waste to a bare minimum. The meals could be available to sleeper passengers and included in the ticket price, or not included at all. If not included in the ticket price, then any passenger (sleeper or coach) could order their meal(s) in advance, at their option. When stocking the diner for a trip, the meals would be loaded, refrigerated, and identified by the passenger and/or room number, but already paid for. Amtrak could keep extra meals on hand at all times in case a passenger changed his/her mind during travel or if the train was running late. However, when the extra meals for that trip are all gone, they're all gone.

The food has to be of a higher quality or this doesn't work. No one will want to pay in advance for a meal that quality-wise, is no better than the current offering.

If implemented as stated above, everybody wins. The passenger has the option to buy a meal or not, gets more selections, and tastier food. Amtrak gets the benefit of satisfied customers, meals prepaid, less waste and inventory, which equates to lower cost. The online menu could be ever-changing since the meals are prepared and paid for in advance. This would alleviate the issue of having to eat the same meals over a period of days if on a long LD trip. It should also reduce the cost of a sleeper ticket if not included in the ticket price.

If a passenger paid for a meal in advance and did not travel, provided the trip was canceled within a prescribed time, the price paid for the meal could be refunded along with the ticket price.

Obviously, there would be some bugs to work out. Experience and time should supply remedies.

Just a thought.

Looks like an administrative and logistics challenge to implement this... what if trains misconnect / what if passenger changes their mind / how is al this food sourced... and what extra paperwork and record keeping for the attendants???

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Looks like an administrative and logistics challenge to implement this... what if trains misconnect / what if passenger changes their mind / how is al this food sourced... and what extra paperwork and record keeping for the attendants???

It doesn’t solve any issues. If Amtrak wants to serve better food, they just have to order better quality food. That’s literally all it takes.

 

[tgstubbs1]

So could you explain why the meals should be microwaveable instead of heated in a convection oven?

Isn't a convection oven basically the same thing as a hot air fryer?

 

[me_little_me]

Isn't a convection oven basically the same thing as a hot air fryer?

No, it is a hot air baker. It's like using the bake feature on your oven with a fan moving the air around so food bakes much faster but it bakes. Unlike a microwave which turns bread, cakes, dumplings and similar products to mush, baking can crisp them up.
And unlike a microwave where cooking twice as much takes twice the time, with convection ovens, it takes the same amount of time (but uses more energy).

What’s a Convection Oven, and When Should You Use It?

 

[flitcraft]

It has occurred to me that Amtrak is missing an easy way to mitigate the disaster of flex dining and build future loyalty at the same time: simply give a voucher to LD passengers in the sleepers for use on a future train in recognition that the food being served simply isn't the equivalent of what sleeper passengers are paying for. This way, they acknowledge that the current food isn't up to snuff, that they know this and want to make amends, and encourage post-flex-dining travel. Unless, of course, they aren't planning to fix the dining situation.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Simply no match!

If my memory serves me right… Amtrak flex meals give testimonial to quality in reverse and progress in reverse… Back in the 1950's this tv dinner had really tender chicken with a tasty crispy fried crust. The veggies were steeped in savory butter sauce… and the potatoes, although obviously made from powdered mix… were creamy and rich. What a treat... I still remember and am smacking my lips even now... decades later!

Now how can one even compare what was then… with what is now??? And how can Amtrak flex meals be justified?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Simply no match!

If my memory serves me right… Amtrak flex meals give testimonial to quality in reverse and progress in reverse… Back in the 1950's this tv dinner had really tender chicken with a tasty crispy fried crust. The veggies were steeped in savory butter sauce… and the potatoes, although obviously made from powdered mix… were creamy and rich. What a treat... I still remember and am smacking my lips even now... decades later!

Now how can one even compare what was then… with what is now??? And how can Amtrak flex meals be justified?

View attachment 20228

I’m fairly certain Amtrak Flex meals and Domestic First Class meals are prepared the same way... my meals on American and Delta have been much better than Amtrak Flex, and presented properly as well with “real” plates, flatware, glasses, and cloth napkins.

 

[MARC Rider]

I'm a little annoyed with the constant "Sleepers costs $1000s of dollars, we deserve gourmet food!" First of all, most sleeper fares aren't usually "$1,000s of dollars." In any event, the cost saving from the flex meals isn't the food (food is cheap, too cheap, in this country, that's why obesity is such a major health problem.) The cost savings comes from eliminating the labor costs in food preparation and the labor costs in the table service. That's why I think that Amtrak management can provide better quality flex meals, but I understand, especially during the pandemic, why table service needs to be suspended. If you think Amtrak sleeper fares are expensive, I would suggest looking at the prices for the private-car excursions or rail cruises that tout fresh-cooked gourmet food. Those will cost much, much more than an equivalent Amtrak trip. (I checked out the Rocky Mountaineer -- a 2 night jaunt from Vancouver to Banff is priced at $1,700 pp Silver Leaf, $2,400 -- Gold Leaf. And that only includes 2 breakfasts and 2 lunches. You're on your own for dinner. It does include the hotel rooms in Kaloomps and Banff, though.

By the way, my flight from Dulles to Beijing cost in excess of $2,000, and you wouldn't believe the lousy food we had. I could have upgraded to business class for another $1,500 each way, and then I might have gotten somewhat better food, plus a lie-flat seat. (Yeah, I know you can find cheaper IAD-PEK coach fares, but our bosses really do want us to be able to cancel trips without penalty, check bags for free, etc.)

 

[crescent-zephyr]

If you think Amtrak sleeper fares are expensive, I would suggest looking at the prices for the private-car excursions or rail cruises that tout fresh-cooked gourmet food. Those will cost much, much more than an equivalent Amtrak trip.

I’ve ridden them. The cost is usually not very different than a Bedroom. Obviously it varies from trip to trip, but the ones I choose aren’t.

Nobody is asking for gourmet food, Amtrak never had gourmet food and neither does VIA. Actually I don’t think I’ve ever had truly gourmet food on a train.

 

[20th Century Rider]

I'm a little annoyed with the constant "Sleepers costs $1000s of dollars, we deserve gourmet food!" First of all, most sleeper fares aren't usually "$1,000s of dollars." In any event, the cost saving from the flex meals isn't the food (food is cheap, too cheap, in this country, that's why obesity is such a major health problem.) The cost savings comes from eliminating the labor costs in food preparation and the labor costs in the table service. That's why I think that Amtrak management can provide better quality flex meals, but I understand, especially during the pandemic, why table service needs to be suspended. If you think Amtrak sleeper fares are expensive, I would suggest looking at the prices for the private-car excursions or rail cruises that tout fresh-cooked gourmet food. Those will cost much, much more than an equivalent Amtrak trip. (I checked out the Rocky Mountaineer -- a 2 night jaunt from Vancouver to Banff is priced at $1,700 pp Silver Leaf, $2,400 -- Gold Leaf. And that only includes 2 breakfasts and 2 lunches. You're on your own for dinner. It does include the hotel rooms in Kaloomps and Banff, though.

By the way, my flight from Dulles to Beijing cost in excess of $2,000, and you wouldn't believe the lousy food we had. I could have upgraded to business class for another $1,500 each way, and then I might have gotten somewhat better food, plus a lie-flat seat. (Yeah, I know you can find cheaper IAD-PEK coach fares, but our bosses really do want us to be able to cancel trips without penalty, check bags for free, etc.)

Sleepers cost about $2000 round trip from the West Coast to the East Coast. The pre pandemic food was substantial but certainly not gourmet. But it was acceptable and has not been getting criticized. Your annoyance about food being cheap and the cause of obesity in America is simply irrelevant to the discussion on Amtrak catering. Many on the forum are questioning Amtrak management capabilities; responsible utilization of Amtrak funding, justifiable value for sleeper tickets, and the unhealthy and poor product quality of the flex concept.

 

[caravanman]

This youtube video shows what the current meals look like. I have to say they look very unappealing!
The young lady makes a few errors about Amtrak in her commentary, but at least folk can see what the food looks like...

 

[20th Century Rider]

This youtube video shows what the current meals look like. I have to say they look very unappealing!
The young lady makes a few errors about Amtrak in her commentary, but at least folk can see what the food looks like...

I've seen this video before and it speaks volumes about the lackluster and depressing food service on Amtrak.

 

[fdaley]

I'm a little annoyed with the constant "Sleepers costs $1000s of dollars, we deserve gourmet food!" First of all, most sleeper fares aren't usually "$1,000s of dollars."

A bedroom for two from Albany to Chicago on the Lake Shore, which used to be the first leg of any trip west for my wife and me, starts at $793. And when I checked just now, a bedroom for one person next weekend from New York to Birmingham on the Crescent was priced at $1,134. So the price of long-distance sleeper travel can get past the $1,000 mark pretty quickly.

What upsets a lot of us is that these same basic prices for years included full-service, restaurant-style meals in the dining car. Now that service has been hugely downgraded, but the price of a sleeper room is still the same.

 

[MARC Rider]

Sleepers cost about $2000 round trip from the West Coast to the East Coast.

And a 2-day trip on the Rocky Mountaineer between Vancouver and Banff is priced during April at $1,700 - $2,400, and you have to pay for dinner in Kaloomps and Banff.

 

[20th Century Rider]

A bedroom for two from Albany to Chicago on the Lake Shore, which used to be the first leg of any trip west for my wife and me, starts at $793. And when I checked just now, a bedroom for one person next weekend from New York to Birmingham on the Crescent was priced at $1,134. So the price of long-distance sleeper travel can get past the $1,000 mark pretty quickly.

What upsets a lot of us is that these same basic prices for years included full-service, restaurant-style meals in the dining car. Now that service has been hugely downgraded, but the price of a sleeper room is still the same.

Agreed! And I always pay more than $2000 to go coast to coast. But what is more than what you said... the price has actually gone up while the food service, and the attitude of employees [although they and we are all facing tough times,] has gone down down down; bringing down the overall quality of the experience. There has been little acknowledgement from Amtrak admin that customers are getting way less in terms of services and value... for the 'way more' which they must pay.

I do love trains... but I'll be back when they show that they value my patronage and want my business. I mean... as a retired school teacher on a teacher's pension... I sure worked hard for every nickIe and dime in my pension and I can't be squandering my money on the lack of real appreciation for my business.

 

[MARC Rider]

And when I checked just now, a bedroom for one person next weekend from New York to Birmingham on the Crescent was priced at $1,134. So the price of long-distance sleeper travel can get past the $1,000 mark pretty quickly.

Well, sure, if you're booking so close to departure, and the supply is diminished because the trains are only running 3 days a week.
I just checked NYP - BHM for April 20, roomettes at $426 and bedrooms at $627.

 

[Sidney]

$1134 from New York to Birmingham? For that price I would expect first class gourmet meals. Low bucket is quite a bit less. Amtrak will charge what people are willing to pay. I couldn't imagine anybody paying that outrageous price,but obviously some people will.

 

[20th Century Rider]

And a 2-day trip on the Rocky Mountaineer between Vancouver and Banff is priced during April at $1,700 - $2,400, and you have to pay for dinner in Kaloomps and Banff.

The Rocky Mountaineer is a private tourist train while Amtrak is a public transportation service supported by the government and taxpayer dollars.

 

[20th Century Rider]

$1134 from New York to Birmingham? For that price I would expect first class gourmet meals. Low bucket is quite a bit less. Amtrak will charge what people are willing to pay. I couldn't imagine anybody paying that outrageous price,but obviously some people will.

You are exactly right... Amtrak prices aren't cheep and they are actually all over the places with pricing. You and me and all Amtrak travelers should expect and are entitled to way more than what we are getting.

 

[MARC Rider]

Well, sure, if you're booking so close to departure, and the supply is diminished because the trains are only running 3 days a week.
I just checked NYP - BHM for April 20, roomettes at $426 and bedrooms at $627.

Lake Shore Limited, NYP - CHI April 21, Roomette, $394, Bedroom $733. Coach $90. Bedroom and Roomette include the same food service, but somehow the bedroom is worth a surcharge of $339. The difference between coach and roomette is $304. Obviously, you're paying the extra $300 for something other than food service. And they seem to be filling the sleepers, even with the lousy food. Obviously, the value proposition for a sleeper over coach is the privacy and lie-flat bed; the value proposition for a bedroom over a roomette is the increased space and en-suite bathroom facilities. Personally, unless the bedroom price is close to that of the roomette, I'll take the roomette.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

This youtube video shows what the current meals look like. I have to say they look very unappealing!
The young lady makes a few errors about Amtrak in her commentary, but at least folk can see what the food looks like...

Fred Harvey must be spinning 'round and 'round at Warp speed and this video only confirms I have made the right decision by starting to dump my AGR Points into gift cards and hotel rooms and using Enterprise as my preferred carrier now.

 

[Qapla]

I weigh more than I should ... I am sure I could stand to lose 75-100 pounds - that said, just because I can find someone who weighs more than me does not make me skinny - it just makes that person more overweight than I am.

Telling me that a private excursion train costs more than an Amtrak sleeper does not make the sleeper "cheap" or even "affordable" - it jus makes that excursion train more overly priced than Amtrak is.

Most city buss systems that I know of around here do not make money. They have low fares so that all people can ride them. The operating expenses are offset by taxes. Wouldn't it be nice if Amtrak was supported by taxes to help offset the operating costs so the prices could be affordable to more people who cannot afford the current sleeper prices ...

 

[MARC Rider]

The Rocky Mountaineer is a private tourist train while Amtrak is a public transportation service supported by the government and taxpayer dollars.

That's really irrelevant if one is comparing the value proposition of the two travel experiences. The point is that you could spend $1,000 and travel on Amtrak for 4 days between New York and the west coast riding in a sleeper and eating lousy food or spend $1,700 -$2,400 (plus paying extra for dinner in Kaloomps and Banff) and travel on the Rocky Mountaineer for two days between Vancouver and Banff and eat a decent breakfast and lunch. Obviously, which you would choose depends on a lot more than the quality of the food service on board.

Amtrak could meet it's "public transportation" service mission by running all-coach trains. In fact, most customers of the long-distance trains travel by coach, and they don't travel real long distances, either. The sleeper service is mainly a way to capture some extra revenue to cross-subsidize the operation of the train. If they can optimize this extra revenue by serving lousy food, why shouldn't they? As a taxpayer-funded government-owned entity, Amtrak certainly has no reason to use public funds to subsidize food service for people who are most likely not using it for essential transportation.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

@MARC Rider - on paper I agree with you quite a bit. I would rather see more trains and less sleeping cars and dining cars if we had to choose one or the other.

But we aren’t starting from a clean slate, and taking away from the LD trains is just taking away from them at this point. You’re not going to tell me that all the trains would have stopped running if they were still serving the old menu.

With the lack of coach revenue and the increase in per meal hard costs and waste I wonder if they are actually saving any money anyways.