6 hour delay between cities 200 miles apart is preposterous!

[iliketrains]

I read this on the Amtrak Alerts site:

Sunset Limited Train 1 that departed New Orleans (NOL) on 3/22 is delayed arriving into San Antonio (SAS) due to UP freight interference east of San Antonio (SAS). Currently operating approx 6 hr 20 min late.

It's interesting to note that the train arrived in Houston on time but was 6 hours and 20 minutes late arriving at its next station which is only about 200 miles away.

A 6-hour delay because of freight interference!!!! From the outside looking in, it appears that UP is purposefully forcing Amtrak to be late. It's been mentioned in this forum that legally UP is supposed to prioritize Amtrak trains but does not. Maybe it's time something is done to force UP to prioritize Amtrak trains that are running a certain amount of time behind schedule. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that a train with people on board was forced to sit idle for 6 hours! I would like to see The Biden administration fix this. The alert does not say there was an equipment issue, an accident, a car on the tracks, a person on the tracks, nor an onboard medical emergency, none of those. It simply says freight interference. Let that sink in.

 

[Chatter163]

This has been a problem for decades, especially on the Sunset Limited. A regrettable situation, to be sure, but nothing new or breaking enough to require multiple exclamation points.

 

[iliketrains]

This has been a problem for decades, especially on the Sunset Limited. A regrettable situation, to be sure, but nothing new or breaking enough to require multiple exclamation points.

That is my point. Let's get this changed. Decades-long problem needs to be fixed. It's time for us rail travelers to stop accepting this. Yes, it does require multiple exclamation points!!!

 

[MARC Rider]

This happens everywhere. Let me tell you about the Northeast Regional (#67) that was 6 hours late because the HHP-8 decided to have a software malfunction between Route 128 and Providence. No freight interference there. Or a Carolinian that was 6 hours late into Baltimore because a storm knocked a tree on the tracks somewhere around Quantico. (OK, in that case, not only did they seem to let us sit while the freight trains had priority, we sat while other Amtrak trains had priority. They even sent 66 north out of Washington before us, and 66 makes a few stops before Baltimore, whereas the Carolinian doesn't, so what should have been a 30 minute trip from Washington to Baltimore took over an hour because of interference from another Amtrak train. Most of my other NEC delays, when they happen are under an hour, but an hour delay for a 1 hour 10 minute Baltimore - Philly ride is the proportional equivalent of a 15 hour delay on the Capitol, DC to Chicago, and I've never had anything that bad on the Capitol. I recently endured a 2 hour delay on the NEC NYO - BAL, and, would you believe it, it was freight interference! (A CSX train derailed on the NEC in the Bronx.) As I wrote at the time, not only does CSX delay Amtrak trains on their tracks, they delay Amtrak trains on Amtrak's tracks.

 

[Exvalley]

It's not clear to me if the delay was attributable to a failure to prioritize Amtrak. It's possible that the tracks were blocked, weather or not Amtrak was given priority. I am not familiar enough with the tracks in that area to know one way or the other.

 

[iliketrains]

I am going to write my US congressperson and my US senators. My letter alone won't help but if other rail travelers do the same maybe a change will happen.

 

[IndyLions]

There’s no question that Amtrak needs to get their house in order when it comes to equipment maintenance, reliability, etc. And unavoidable delays do happen that are not Amtrak nor the Host Railroad’s fault.

But the OP is right when he says enough is enough. It needs to get fixed during this administration, or it may never be fixed.

 

[jis]

Do we know any details about exactly what happened in this particular case? Or are we just flailing because we are pissed off in general having been triggered by this event?

 

[Trogdor]

It's not clear to me if the delay was attributable to a failure to prioritize Amtrak. It's possible that the tracks were blocked, weather or not Amtrak was given priority. I am not familiar enough with the tracks in that area to know one way or the other.

According to a post I read on FB (don't remember which group), there was a disabled freight train. IIRC, much of the route is single track (don't know about the specific point where this supposed breakdown occurred), so if a train breaks down, you've got nowhere to go.

 

[frequentflyer]

Go register for Trainmon5 software and see what the dispatcher sees. West of SAT there is a lot of single line track and whole lot of three mile long container trains coming from LA. The trains are too long for the sidings, so somebody has to wait, (hint" JB Hunt is paying more to UP than Amtrak) (UP is contributing more to politicians than Amtrak )pure physics. The SL refuels at the fuel pad east of SAT, it may had to wait in a long line for its turn to the refuel.

UP does a descent job with moving the Cali Zephr, Coast Starlate, STL-CHI trains and the California local trains in NoCal with its hyper sensitive politicians looking on. But in this PSR environment, unless the government is going to pony up money for a new main, there are some places in the country that were constrained before Precision Scheduled Railroading and are more constrained now.

Is it frustrating? Of course, but unless the 3 Trillion dollars have something in for the freight railroads, sadly expect more of the same.

 

[Exvalley]

Go register for Trainmon5 software and see what the dispatcher sees.

Registrations are closed until at least April 5th. Grr...

 

[HammerJack]

The funny thing is that even with this monster delay, Amtrak predicts an on-time arrival in LAX! The Sunset has SO much schedule padding.

 

[me_little_me]

This happens everywhere. Let me tell you about the Northeast Regional (#67) that was 6 hours late because the HHP-8 decided to have a software malfunction between Route 128 and Providence. No freight interference there. Or a Carolinian that was 6 hours late into Baltimore because a storm knocked a tree on the tracks somewhere around Quantico. (OK, in that case, not only did they seem to let us sit while the freight trains had priority, we sat while other Amtrak trains had priority. They even sent 66 north out of Washington before us, and 66 makes a few stops before Baltimore, whereas the Carolinian doesn't, so what should have been a 30 minute trip from Washington to Baltimore took over an hour because of interference from another Amtrak train. Most of my other NEC delays, when they happen are under an hour, but an hour delay for a 1 hour 10 minute Baltimore - Philly ride is the proportional equivalent of a 15 hour delay on the Capitol, DC to Chicago, and I've never had anything that bad on the Capitol. I recently endured a 2 hour delay on the NEC NYO - BAL, and, would you believe it, it was freight interference! (A CSX train derailed on the NEC in the Bronx.) As I wrote at the time, not only does CSX delay Amtrak trains on their tracks, they delay Amtrak trains on Amtrak's tracks.

If iliketrains turns out to be correct that it is interference rather than specific failure(s) that were unexpected or UP would not route Amtrak around the failures with priority, then your argument is just silly, at best.
Nobody expects failures to not occur although better maintenance would reduce them. Even that CSX incident was a failure, not an intentional act to deliberately delay Amtrak.

The real problem is the deliberate denial of priority by the Class 1s. Whether or not that was the case in this incident, it is definitely the case more often than not and many of us have witnessed freight after freight going by while our train sits on the siding.

 

[Cal]

A Pacific Surfliner was also 5+ hours late yesterday due to police interference in San Diego

 

[jis]

It is likely that there is considerable amount of deliberate poor dispatching that takes place.

Then there is the case of avoiding deadlocks, which might require holding Amtrak to let a few freights through, and may be caused by earlier poor decision making or Amtrak not making it past a segment in expected time because of some unforeseen reason.

Sitting in a train watching things unfold there is literally no way to tell which of those two it is without having access to much broader context of the overall dispatching situation in the area.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I think a reasonabe approach would be to tell our representatives to investigate why Amtrak is suffering freight related delays and what can be done to ensure the hosts are holding up their end of the agreement. If our politicians took this sort of thing more seriously we might be able to move on to other matters instead of rehashing the same complaints.

UP does a descent job with getting the Cali Zephr, Coast Starlate, STL-CHI trains and the California local trains in NoCal with its hyper sensitive politicians looking on.

In that case it sounds like we should drag more politicians into the fray if we want better schedule keeping.

Is it frustrating? Of course, but unless the 3 Trillion dollars have something in for the freight railroads, sadly expect more of the same.

The only reason we should expect more of the same is if we choose to do nothing about it. Paying off freight hosts like a mafia shakedown is not the sort of solution I had in mind but feel free to send your own money if you want.

 

[HammerJack]

I think it’s also important to understand that the freight companies who own the tracks are private businesses that are trying to make a profit. They’re the one’s who own the property, do the maintenance, and make the profit based on their performance. Naturally, I understand why preference is given to freight trains, and as much as an inconvenience it is to Amtrak passengers, I think it makes sense.

 

[iliketrains]

Even if in this specific situation there is a reasonable explanation of why this has occurred, the extremely long delays do concur that could be avoided. Fix the problem. There could be solutions that don't cost trillions and trillions of dollars. Examine the situation and see what can be done. I will also write to the White House. We may never have an ear in the WH again.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I think it’s also important to understand that the freight companies who own the tracks are private businesses that are trying to make a profit. They’re the one’s who own the property, do the maintenance, and make the profit based on their performance. Naturally, I understand why preference is given to freight trains, and as much as an inconvenience it is to Amtrak passengers, I think it makes sense.

I think it's important to understand that Amtrak is granted priority over freight operations by regulator authority and contractual agreement. Freight hosts have no right to penalize Amtrak for their own incompetence or lack of planning.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Do we know any details about exactly what happened in this particular case? Or are we just flailing because we are pissed off in general having been triggered by this event?

Seems like they latter.

The real problem is the deliberate denial of priority by the Class 1s. Whether or not that was the case in this incident, it is definitely the case more often than not and many of us have witnessed freight after freight going by while our train sits on the siding.

I’ve only witnessed this in Canada when riding VIA rail. If you get annoyed with how Amtrak trains are dispatched... never ride the Canadian lol.

Naturally, I understand why preference is given to freight trains, and as much as an inconvenience it is to Amtrak passengers, I think it makes sense.

So it makes sense why a private business does not honor a contract? Interesting. “Your honor we didn’t need to provide the services on the contract we signed because it makes business sense not to.”

 

[adamj023]

I am not for Amtrak having prioritization on Freight tracks. The model of forcing Amtrak to have prioritization is akin to the telecom industry and forcing alternative providers access to lines already there without deploying new investment for their own lines. Freight is the most important on the freight tracks as even though it may not be time sensitive, it needs to get there as soon as possible. Passengers are less of a priority and if they wanted priority, they would fly or drive, use bus, etc.. as other options exist on routes with known freight usage. With that being said, Amtrak needs to either build their own tracks, switches and interlocking and the like or work with partners to build them in areas where freight volume is known to be disruptive rather than blame the freight railroads for their problems.

If you want a real passenger railroad, then there must be passenger railroad tracks on that route and not rely on congested freight tracks. They both can coexist when there are not traffic disruptions.

 

[Exvalley]

It's an interesting question. One could argue that the reason Amtrak has not invested in its own tracks is because they get priority on freight lines. So perhaps the rule that we defend so much helps Amtrak in the short term but hurts it in the long term.

 

[frequentflyer]

I am not for Amtrak having prioritization on Freight tracks. The model of forcing Amtrak to have prioritization is akin to the telecom industry and forcing alternative providers access to lines already there without deploying new investment for their own lines. Freight is the most important on the freight tracks as even though it may not be time sensitive, it needs to get there as soon as possible. Passengers are less of a priority and if they wanted priority, they would fly or drive, use bus, etc.. as other options exist on routes with known freight usage. With that being said, Amtrak needs to either build their own tracks, switches and interlocking and the like or work with partners to build them in areas where freight volume is known to be disruptive rather than blame the freight railroads for their problems.

If you want a real passenger railroad, then there must be passenger railroad tracks on that route and not rely on congested freight tracks. They both can coexist when there are not traffic disruptions.

1. States have given to money to Freight lines to do just that.

2. On a double main, dispatching Amtrak should be easy money. . BNSF stated that years ago, they slot the Chief among the intermodals and take Amtrak's money.

2. Public Service Announcement- This is a pro Amtrak website.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I am not for Amtrak having prioritization on Freight tracks. I am not against passenger rail at all. [...] Freight is the most important on the freight tracks as even though it may not be time sensitive, it needs to get there as soon as possible.

You sound confused. Or maybe you're just trying to have it both ways. In either case it's a convoluted narrative.

Passengers are less of a priority and if they wanted priority, they would fly or drive as other options exist on routes with known freight usage.

Many Amtrak passengers would struggle to drive and many Amtrak stations are in towns with no scheduled air service.

Amtrak needs to either build their own tracks, switches and interlocking and the like or work with partners to build them in areas where freight volume is known to be disruptive rather than blame the freight railroads for their problems.

Or maybe the freight railroads need to do a better job of honoring their obligations instead of whining about Amtrak.

 

[TrackWalker]

Job description for every railroader from trackwalker to train crew to dispatcher- "To move every train as safely and quickly through my territory. (So they become the next persons problem.")