jis
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Amtrak ConnectUS Announcement and Detailed Document
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Interesting read - thanks for posting. Which HSR project does Amtrak have a joint-ticketing agreement with?
jis
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The Texas one.
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Depends so much on what the infrastructure money gives Amtrak in the end. I noticed the minority party appears to have dropped the rail money to $46B (including money for the railroads) in their proposal. It all depends on what the next and future congresses for the years until 2035 allocate and that depends on who's in power.
The eastern PA routes intrigue me. Basically commuter runs into Philly and/or New York. I can't help thinking that bridging the gap Harrisburg - Reading - Allentown is an obvious next step.
Really interesting! Something for almost everyone, which I imagine is the point.
UP must have extracted a bad deal from Illinois on the Chicago-St. Louis line whereby more than the existing (pre-Covid) round-trips daily can't be added. No additional trains on that route stands out like a sore thumb amid all the proposed expansions. At least they think they'll get the trains to 110mph.
UP must have extracted a bad deal from Illinois on the Chicago-St. Louis line whereby more than the existing (pre-Covid) round-trips daily can't be added. No additional trains on that route stands out like a sore thumb amid all the proposed expansions. At least they think they'll get the trains to 110mph.
Yep. It states "Before proceeding, Amtrak will collaborate with various stakeholders to analyze restoration of the Union Pacific Phoenix West Line to resume access to Phoenix."
However on the map it still has the Sunset bypassing Phoenix. I'm assuming it's laziness from Amtrak's part and that the Sunset would be re-routed to go through Phoenix
Seems like this vision will address the BOS/NYC - CLE issue. Would be great if they indeed ran LSL more like the Northeast Regional. If they could manage to improve travel times, something like that would really work, and maybe convince a stubborn state like Ohio that rail service isn't stupid.
Im surprised this report doesn't include the recent developments with the Downeaster. The state legislature recently just approved a feasibility study of extending the Downeaster all the way to Bangor.
Im surprised this report doesn't include the recent developments with the Downeaster. The state legislature recently just approved a feasibility study of extending the Downeaster all the way to Bangor.
jis
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I did forget about those, that is a possibility.
However most Midwest stations are low level, right? And so are the stations on the Cascades and along the San Joaquin route. I think it'd be better to simply get the Siemens cars to have standardization across the network. And the steps are available.
They are going to need at least 1 more rt on the Lincoln service. They need a 7 pm departure out of stl.
MisterUptempo
Lead Service Attendant
Noticed that as well. Also, the plan seems to assume that Phase 2 of the corridor and its promised speed improvements (Chicago-Joliet on the Metra-Rock Island, Springfield 10th Street and Flyover, and Granite City-St. Louis improvements) won't happen by 2035.
Most surprising to me is the plan for 8 round trips Chicago-Indy in 3:30, with 110 max speed. If Amtrak can make that happen, it could be a game changer. At less than 200 miles between Chicago and Indy, and the potential for Indy to serve as a second Midwest hub (to Cincy, Louisville, later Nashville, Atlanta, FLA, Columbus and the East), a successful deployment would scream out for high speed rail.
Also-
-The Illini/Saluki trimming over a half an hour off its runtime, the speeds would be similar in average speed to Phase 1 110mph CHI-STL and Amtrak's promised 110 mph CHI-IND service (62mph average speed for Illini/Saluki, 64mph average speed for full Phase 1 CHI-STL, 55mph average speed on CHI-IND 110mph)
-Detroit's Michigan Central Station will see passenger rail return, albeit for a single CHI-DET-TOR train. But it's a start.
-Interesting that Amtrak plans to "split the baby" as it were, sending new CHI-MSP round trips and the Empire Builder through LaCrosse, and additional CHI-MSP round trip(s) through Eau Claire. Seems like a lot of resources will have to go to pay for the improvements the Class Is will demand to both expand service on the LaCrosse route and start a new routing through Eau Claire, not to mention adding Madison into the mix.
-Chicago-Rockford run times are disappointing.
A lot can and will happen between now and 2035, and the plans can, and likely will, change, for better or worse.
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neroden
Engineer
What can I say. It's a solid list (there are definitely quibbles but we know it won't be implemented exactly like this), and it's a good report. Hopefully it gets some traction.
And if they start these services and don't publish timetables for them, they'll get significantly fewer customers than they're expecting. Amtrak needs some management sense in order to implement anything.
And if they start these services and don't publish timetables for them, they'll get significantly fewer customers than they're expecting. Amtrak needs some management sense in order to implement anything.
No one is holding their breath on this one. There was a lengthy discussion here awhile back on the logistical nightmare this could be - too many moving pieces and participants. Before even tackling the mess that is customs and immigration, there is no practical connection from the tunnel on the Canadian side to the tracks used by other passenger trains and no incentive to construct one. Amtrak paying for track construction in a "foreign" country would be difficult to justify. Improved schedule coordination with VIA and a Thruway bus would serve the same purpose.
If Chicago - Toronto service returns it would likely be an extension of the Blue Water, as in the more recent past. It's important to note, that train was killed by border crossing delays - a problem that doesn't go away with a crossing at Detroit.
neroden
Engineer
Perhaps another possiblity would be a VIA extension to Detroit, terminating at Central Terminal or stopping there for border checks. VIA continues to have less political support than Amtrak, which is pretty sad, but there are certainly a lot of Canadians who would like easy travel from Toronto to Detroit. This would of course require that the US engage in some reciprocality and allow Canadians to do precheck in the US rather than vice versa.
The report is all about "corridors" and I do not doubt that there would be business there but IMO this would require Amtrak laying thousands of miles of their own tracks. With all these extra trains being added does anyone at Amtrak believe that the Freight Railroads would just move over and allow massive use of their track by passenger trains? I would say that they view Amtrak as a nuisance right now. I'd like to hear someone at Amtrak explain how this corridor system will be implemented. Opinions?
chrsjrcj
OBS Chief
IMO either Amtrak or the state DOTs should take ownership of these corridors. Add capacity and make infrastructure improvements to accommodate higher speed passenger trains.
neroden
Engineer
I think the grotesque incompetence of CSX will lead to freight shippers demanding nationalization of tracks. CSX has already proven that it's willing to sell -- with the huge sale to VA -- and is proving daily that it isn't really interested in operating a railroad for shippers. The obstacles are political and ideological.
There are no obstacles on, for instance, the New York City to Scranton route, which is already owned by public authorities and primarily needs construction money.
There's a huge amount of right of way and options for Detroit to Toledo and I have no doubt track can be acquired.
There's plenty of right-of-way from Albany to Chicago on the route of the Lake Shore Limited; someone just needs to buy it.
BNSF is being essentially cooperative with plans for new passenger trains. So is CP right now. UP, I can't read clearly. CSX wants to sell its tracks off. NS has been inclined to track sales in the past, though I'm not sure about now. CN seems to still be hostile, but really, I see options as long as outright purchase of ROW is taken seriously as an option, and funded, by the states and Amtrak. (CN sold most of its trackage in Toronto to the province.)
Yes states buying lines could help. Not sure that I agree that nationalization of the railroads will occur but will agree that there are thousands of miles of abandoned R.O.W.'s that could be put back in use but I read it costs about $1 million/mile to lay track down, provide PTC, sidings etc. There are also some underutilized lines but they are mainly in rural areas. Amtrak has yet to produce an implementation plan so we will see how they intend to do it.
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Someone above me already addressed this well.
I'll admit, I haven't studied enough, nor am I necessarily qualified to comment (but how many among us actually are), but I think they could also partner with state owned and commuter owned railroads to make this happen. We forget over the last 40 years, Amtrak/others have moved mountains to make things happen. A few examples (that now would seem like gargantuan, impossible tasks) would be electrifying New Haven-Boston, bringing passenger service to Maine, and Virginia buying tracks from the CSX. I wholeheartedly believe that many of these corridor plans could happen in the near future.
If commuter railroads and state-owned DOT's could make necessary improvements (electrification, double-track, PTC, etc...), that will also help alot.
I think the biggest obstacle is the mid-south projects like the Atlanta Hub, but maybe someone knows something about this that proves it easier than I think.
All of the stuff relating to LSL is absolutely possible, and simply hasn't been a priority. If heavily focused on, I think reasonable goals could bring about change in under a decade.
1) Many of these corridors aren't "massive use" but 2-4 trains a day. With the exception of Chicago-Indianapolis and Boston-Concord, the corridors in this document more frequent than 4 trains a day are expansions of existing service.
2) Not every freight railroad treats Amtrak like a nuisance. CP seems to handle the Hiawathas and Empire Builder OK and to be supportive of expanding Hiawatha service. (The idiot NIMBYs in my area, on the other hand...
). BNSF seems OK.
3) Amtrak or the relevant state DOTs have to be willing to make reasonable improvements (sidings, double-tracking, installing PTC where it’s required only because of passenger trains) commensurate with the capacity of the line and how many trains Amtrak wants relative to how many freights run now. Not to be held hostage to gold-plated demands but to come to the table with a firm but reasonable position. "We've come in good faith with capital money, and we're willing to negotiate somewhat, but we can always spend this money on another corridor if you start treating us as the goose that laid the golden egg."
2) Not every freight railroad treats Amtrak like a nuisance. CP seems to handle the Hiawathas and Empire Builder OK and to be supportive of expanding Hiawatha service. (The idiot NIMBYs in my area, on the other hand...
). BNSF seems OK.3) Amtrak or the relevant state DOTs have to be willing to make reasonable improvements (sidings, double-tracking, installing PTC where it’s required only because of passenger trains) commensurate with the capacity of the line and how many trains Amtrak wants relative to how many freights run now. Not to be held hostage to gold-plated demands but to come to the table with a firm but reasonable position. "We've come in good faith with capital money, and we're willing to negotiate somewhat, but we can always spend this money on another corridor if you start treating us as the goose that laid the golden egg."
