What Does Amtrak Think of Us?

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The general tenor of responses may be predictable but I am curious enough to start a discussion here. What do you think Amtrak thinks of: 1) railfans in general and those who are dedicated to supporting the enterprise and the idea of quality train travel, 2) the RPA as an organization which while at times holds differing viewpoints, very much values Amtrak's existence and goes to bat for it daily in Washington and in many states, and 3) forums like this where the good, the bad and the very ugly are in full display. All three general groups have the means to influence their friends, family to travel and to some degree elected officials.

I am tempted to think the following: Amtrak management has little regard for true railfans and think of us as foamers, in the deragatory manner. I believe they find RPA to be a royal PITA (I guess most lobbying groups are to a degree) and give lip service if anything to the group. In regard to this forum, just a question: do they every actually monitor us to get a pulse on what the grassroots are thinking, and then walk away thinking we are weirdos? If we qualify as grassroots. I was once told directly by a very knowledgeable and respected rail journalist that if one ever applies for a job at Amtrak, do not admit to being a railfan as it would be a sure path to being dinged. But for context, that was many years ago and there may be exceptions to that among members here.

I work for a very large Fortune 200 company that operates in a very different realm, and I am certain that much of the public believes we don't give a rat's patoot (as Col. Potter used to say) about what they think. I am privy enough to know the reality: My company cares very deeply what customers think, especially in this age of social media. The execs may or may not act because the company performance is still the bottom line, but it does matter to them that customers are deftly communicated with and in very many instances their issues are resolved satisfactorily. I have a sinking feeling that Amtrak does not think that way, though Guest Relations act on occasion with credits. And to be fair, perhaps the return of traditional dining in the west and the potential of a modified version in the east may be an example of Amtrak actually listening. I guess they listened to somebody on that but there's so much else left on the table and I seriously question that the details matter to them.

Enough rambling from one who disdains long posts. Thoughts?
 
I am doubtful of my knowledge, so I won't comment. . . yet. Although I look forward to discussion.
 
Amtrak claimed that Amtrak Unlimited engaged in trademark infringement. I think eventually they condoned this site. The subject of this article doesn't seem to participate here much.

The letter threatened legal action if he did not dismantle the site, because, it said, he was infringing on the Federal trademark.​
Rizos took down the site but not without a fight.​
He spent the next few weeks conducting online research. “They accused me of willful trademark infringement and violating various trademark laws. But online I learned about fair use, that I could use a trademark for noncommercial purposes, if I wasn’t being derogatory.”​
Rizos penned a letter to the lawyer explaining not only that he was 11, but that he also knew he had rights, and he put his site back up.​
Later, he got an e-mail message from Amtrak’s chief information officer in Washington, D.C., offering him a job in the company’s information technology department, where he has now worked remotely for four-and-a-half years, writing software code for Amtrak’s corporate intranet. So far he has worked on more than 40 projects, several of them multi-million dollar efforts.​
 
Amtrak claimed that Amtrak Unlimited engaged in trademark infringement. I think eventually they condoned this site. The subject of this article doesn't seem to participate here much.

The letter threatened legal action if he did not dismantle the site, because, it said, he was infringing on the Federal trademark.​
Rizos took down the site but not without a fight.​
He spent the next few weeks conducting online research. “They accused me of willful trademark infringement and violating various trademark laws. But online I learned about fair use, that I could use a trademark for noncommercial purposes, if I wasn’t being derogatory.”​
Rizos penned a letter to the lawyer explaining not only that he was 11, but that he also knew he had rights, and he put his site back up.​
Later, he got an e-mail message from Amtrak’s chief information officer in Washington, D.C., offering him a job in the company’s information technology department, where he has now worked remotely for four-and-a-half years, writing software code for Amtrak’s corporate intranet. So far he has worked on more than 40 projects, several of them multi-million dollar efforts.​
I thought he was an airline executive? Or does he do both? Oh, this is dated 2006.

But honestly, I love the story of this wonderful forum's startup!

Ignore all the edits, I edited multiple times as I read the article.
 
While it might seem to be beneficial for all businesses to ensure they do their best for customers, enthusiast groups can just be a bit of a pain.
I used to run a small business renting "dressing up" party clothing to the public. No probs. But get business from amateur theatrical enthusiasts, and that was often a nightmare! :D
 
I think Amtrak does not speak with one mind.

It shows all the signs of being a bureaucracy where different parts are working at cross purposes.

The attitude of Roger Harris is not the same as the attitude of Stephen Gardner, and neither is the same as the attitude of Scot Naparstek, and none of them have the same attitude as Flynn.
 
My guess is -- and it's only a guess -- that it has to do with volume of business represented by the forum. For example, if hypothetically there was a group out there that indeed represented a large bulk of a corporation's business, and spoke with one voice, management might listen. But if the group, no matter how knowledgeable and loyal, represents only a tiny fraction of the customer base, and besides, is likely to be split on most issues, why pay any attention?

Collectively, the folks on a forum like this, though passionate and frequent travelers, may represent only a couple of hundred riders, maybe a few thousand trips annually? There were 32,000,000 Amtrak riders in 2018. (I realize many of these were repeats by the same people and not discrete PAX; but I'm just suggesting volumes here). So really, the basis for taking us seriously is absent from a corporate POV -- unless we really come up with a good idea that makes sense to them (like providing real food onboard).
 
It is also accurate to say I think that the AU of Anthony and Alan was a very different animal with much closer informal links with Amtrak management, than the current AU is. The current AU is just yet another Amtrak fan group, with no specific informal links with Amtrak. It is hard to describe the difference unless one has lived both experiences.

In my mind two events are closely associated with what appeared to many then members to be a significant move away from what it was. One was when the hosting moved from in house by Anthony and Alan, and the other was AGR 2.0 and departure of Anthony from Amtrak. It is now so different we could almost call it AU 2.0, with AU 1.0 but a memory among those that were there.

Time moves on and things change, and old timers who were used to the more homey atmosphere of yore just think it is different and miss the old closer camaraderie, both among the members and with a whole host of Amtrak staff, most (perhaps all) of whom are no longer with Amtrak. As a result we de facto had a disproportionately large access to Amtrak. We have nothing of the sort any more.

As I said, different times, different world, different experiences.
 
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It is also accurate to say I think that the AU of Anthony and Alan was a very different animal with much closer informal links with Amtrak management, than the current AU is. The current AU is just yet another Amtrak fan group, with no specific informal links with Amtrak. It is hard to describe the difference unless one has lived both experiences.

In my mind two events are closely associated with what appeared to many then members to be a significant move away from what it was. One was when the hosting moved from in house by Anthony and Alan, and the other was AGR 2.0 and departure of Anthony from Amtrak.

Time moves on and things change, and old timers who were used to the more homey atmosphere of yore just think it is different and miss the old closer camaraderie, both among the members and with a whole host of Amtrak staff, most (perhaps all) of whom are no longer with Amtrak. As a result we de facto had a disproportionately large access to Amtrak. We have nothing of the sort any more.

As I said, different times, different world, different experiences.
Although Anthony is very busy at Delta, he still visits every now and then. Below is his post after learning of Alan's death 3 years ago. Together with many of us, Anthony attended Alan's memorial
service.

I was very saddened to hear about Alan this evening, and it's an understatement to say I'm still shocked. Alan was the lifeblood of the Amtrak Unlimited community since its inception; a good friend; a true advocate for Amtrak and for all those who loved Amtrak. This was far too early for him. Some quick thoughts come to mind and I want to share:

As PRR 60 said, I first met Alan here on AU roughly 18 years ago, when the site was an early version of what you see here today. Although the site began in 1997, I only added a discussion forum later - around 2000 - after we had decent traffic coming from search engines like Yahoo. Mind you, this was coming out of a time when listservs/mailing lists (and also, newsgroups and subscription services like Prodigy) had been the main method of railfan dialogue online, so it was a relatively new medium. The forum got maybe one or two new threads a day at the beginning, and then, very happily, Alan found it, joined - and stayed.

Alan quickly proved to be extremely knowledgeable, generous with his time, friendly, and helpful to both newcomers and experienced train riders alike. He could talk in simple terms to a first-timer, and yet also in great detail about everything under the sun (from Amtrak politics, to operations, to the travel experience itself) with the pros. When the volume of users steadily increased, and with several upgrades to the forum software, Alan was the clear and logical first choice to help me manage the community. He wholly dedicated himself to this as well as several other online communities, doing what he loved the most - bringing people together (virtually and in person) in the common pursuit of the passion of trains.

I have many fond memories of Alan's friendship and leadership, whether in person, on here, on IRC chat, over the phone, or otherwise. Behind the scenes, for years, we would discuss in great detail what to do about specific forum issues and controversies, and he always brought a thorough and considerate perspective. This only continued after we added more forum staff, and saw a significant growth in the membership over time. After I moved to the Northeast for college, I began seeing Alan in person several times a year - whether in Boston on his AGR points runs, or in NYC while I was passing through, or at any one of the Gatherings which he so much enjoyed planning and organizing. I remember the very first one in Chicago and what a fun success that was, and what an annual tradition it became. In fact, it seems like it was yesterday.

I would continue seeing and speaking with Alan frequently in DC over the years I spent at Amtrak, whether just to catch up or to arrange things for the community. Sometimes they were visits in the ClubAcela or even on the train, or at a station along the NEC. A fun memory was on an impromptu HQ tour one afternoon, he and I went into the elevator alone from the top floor, and who gets in next but Mr. Boardman. That was a long ride down for me - who had failed to sign Alan in as a visitor - LOL! The best part: Alan didn't realize who it was until we got out of the elevator. (Boardman was just wearing a shirt and slacks, and perhaps didn't look the part!)

Ultimately, I'm comforted by the fact that Alan was doing what he loved most, surrounded by his railfan friends, today. My life would have been much different without Alan - during an extended and very formative period - and I remain grateful to him for all of his contributions and commitment. Alan, if you can see this - Thank you.
 
The question of whether cruise lines monitor the Message Boards on Cruise Critic has arisen a few times. The consensus seems to be that "yes, they do". Some posters are more certain of this than others. But, the feeling seems to be that a Company is foolish if it does not try to "keep in tune" with what their customers are thinking and saying about their product(s).

Personally, I have had one specific experience with something that I posted having been read by a cruise line staff member and was informed of this by one of the Executives of Cruise Critic when that person had been contacted by the cruise line. (It was a very positive comment that I had made.)

If Amtrak does not monitor discussions on this Forum, they are being foolish in not doing so. That the Flex Meals and dining car service is changing may be due in part to what Amtrak's "suits" have learned from our numerous posts on the subject.
 
Amtrak has gotten way more forceful and well structured feedback and argument from sources that they are regularly in touch with on a weekly basis like the RPA and the offices of certain Congresspeople. Whatever they might have gathered from here and from the numerous petition efforts and individual phone calls would be validation of stuff that they have been beaten on the head with weekly by folks that they actually talk to face to face. So while all the discussion here can only have helped, I doubt they were a game changer by themselves. It was a very broad collaborative effort.

It is also true that if their party line at the moment is to ignore a certain line of argument and feedback regardless of the source, they are excellent at that too. 🤷‍♂️ I am sure that during the Anderson era there was a period when they had shut down any feedback channel that did not align with their convoluted world view. Only way to get through was to threaten their very existence or else. Putting a complete hold on all Board appointments got their attention.

And then there is of course Facebook and Twitter feeds which they actually acknowledge monitoring for what it may or may not be worth - given the S/N ratio.

The bottom line problem is that Amtrak is not a normal company. It is entirely political creature and the executives know it, and primarily pander to the relevant politicians, everyone else be damned.
 
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The bottom line problem is that Amtrak is not a normal company. It is antirely political creature and the executives know it, and primarily pander to the relevant politicians, everyone else be damned.

1) I wonder if any of the relevant politicians keep an eye on forums like this.

2) Is AU ones of the larger Amtrak/US Rail enthusiast forums around? Before I found AU, I followed some of the usenet news groups, and also checked out On Track-Online occasionally. I've also heard of trainorders.com, which seems to cover a lot more than Amtrak. Alas, the early 200s parody/humor site www.amtrek.net seems to have disappeared.
 
In terms of membership, AU is pretty large but several FB groups are probably larger just by the nature of FB. Actually the number of groups large and small with some subgroup of Amtrak fans is so huge that it is hard to keep track of, both on FB and Twitter. And then of course there are multiple Amtrak sponsored ones too.

There are knowledgeable contributors in places like the Amtrak group under railroad.net and the Passenger Trains sub forum under trainorders.com in addition to AU. There is an Amtrak section under Flyertalk too with some pretty knowledgeable contributors. Alan used to be a moderator of that group.
 
I am wrong or did Amtrak disband its riders' advisory board? If so, that is disappointing and points to a gap into formally receiving valuable feedback.
Yes, Amtrak did disband it's Customer Advisory Board (ACAC) during the summer of 2019. I, and 2 other AU members, were committee members at that time. Yes, it was very disappointing.
 
Wow, a lot here.

Penny, thanks for resurfacing Anthony's post, it brings back a lot of memories. He was truly a great guy with one heck of a legacy. I do miss the old days, getting to tour both the Wilmington and Chicago shops was a real treat, not to mention hanging out with some of the Amtrak folks. I hitched a ride back to MD after Wilmington with Rafi while he was still with Amtrak, and we had lunch with a guy that (ironically, given the current dustup) worked on timetables.

In terms of membership, AU is pretty large but several FB groups are probably larger just by the nature of FB.
I'm not sure how the numbers compare (25k members, 16k of which Facebook tells me are active), but Amtrak Fans seems to have discussions that move at a faster pace than here.

There is an Amtrak section under Flyertalk too with some pretty knowledgeable contributors. Alan used to be a moderator of that group.
That is also the one forum where Amtrak once had (not sure if it continues, as it's been a while since I've been there) an official presence in the form of AGR Insider.

I think Amtrak does not speak with one mind.

It shows all the signs of being a bureaucracy where different parts are working at cross purposes.

The attitude of Roger Harris is not the same as the attitude of Stephen Gardner, and neither is the same as the attitude of Scot Naparstek, and none of them have the same attitude as Flynn.
On topic, this is the best answer. "Amtrak" isn't a person, and treating them as a singular person misses the mark by a wide margin. There are plenty of employees that are/enjoy us foamers, and there are plenty that are on the other side of that coin.
 
I'm not sure how the numbers compare (25k members, 16k of which Facebook tells me are active), but Amtrak Fans seems to have discussions that move at a faster pace than here.

Plus more people simply visit Facebook on a regular basis, and The Algorithm™ tries to drive engagement to different groups based on interest level. AU requires people to actively visit another website (although I believe there's the option to get a daily digest email) and doesn't have The Algorithm™ to try and suck you into endless scrolling for hours.

I believe they find RPA to be a royal PITA (I guess most lobbying groups are to a degree) and give lip service if anything to the group.

Given that RPA does a fair amount of advocacy work to get Amtrak funding, I would be surprised if Amtrak as a corporation finds them to be a royal PITA. I don't know the inside politics of either Amtrak or RPA, but I think Amtrak at least wants to foster some partnership with RPA - after all, there's a 10% discount offered on many coach tickets if you're an RPA member, and it's helpful to have a group of dedicated riders who are organized and willing to contact politicians to advocate for more/better Amtrak funding. While I'm sure there's been some issues at times between the two, on the whole I'd be shocked if Amtrak would want to have RPA (and any similar organization) gone, particularly given how reliant they are on year-to-year appropriations from Congress.
 
It can be argued that there may have been no Amtrak in this form if there was no NARP back then. The relationship has historically been very tight, much tighter than many latter day folks know about. Indeed many of us have worried that the tightness had kept NARP from being an effective advocates on customer issues in the past.
 
Plus more people simply visit Facebook on a regular basis, and The Algorithm™ tries to drive engagement to different groups based on interest level. AU requires people to actively visit another website (although I believe there's the option to get a daily digest email) and doesn't have The Algorithm™ to try and suck you into endless scrolling for hours.
Concur. There's a difference between quality and quantity as well. Content (and moderation) is better here. :D
 
There are knowledgeable contributors in places like the Amtrak group under railroad.net and the Passenger Trains sub forum under trainorders.com in addition to AU. There is an Amtrak section under Flyertalk too with some pretty knowledgeable contributors. Alan used to be a moderator of that group.
I seem to recall when Anthony was at AGR, he posted a lot more often as "AGR Insider" on FlyerTalk than he did on AU.

And with the mention of Alan's memorial, I found a 2018 article from AP News that actually mentioned his memorial service and all the AU members who paid their respects. All I'll say is that some of you actually gave your real full names?
 
And with the mention of Alan's memorial, I found a 2018 article from AP News that actually mentioned his memorial service and all the AU members who paid their respects. All I'll say is that some of you actually gave your real full names?
Do you mind sending that article here (or in private messages)? I wouldn't mind taking a look at it.
 
I'm glad, means I don't have to worry about getting Facebook!
Finally got rid of instagram back in October; hadn't used fb in months but that was deleted too. Time & privacy were my main concerns. I do miss the advocacy side and wish there were good platforms to replace that aspect, but overall very happy with the decision. Highly recommend The Social Dilemma documentary if you haven't seen it.
 
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