Would the new Sunrail platform be high (floor) level?
Central Florida SunRail
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jis
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No. SunRail does not have any high floor cars. It will be the same level as the platforms at current SunRail Stations.
I just found a concept diagram from 2021 which shows an island platform across from the station headhouse serving both tracks 1 and 2 for SunRail, with the existing long platform on track 1 on the head house side of the track retained, presumably for Amtrak. Here is the diagram found on the SunRail site:
https://corporate.sunrail.com/wp-co...nd-Station-Full-Build-Concept-2021a-Draft.pdf
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jis
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Thank the stars I did not find something differentI found it, too -- in the post by @Palmland 2 posts up the thread.
Incidentally I scanned through the Second Revised EIS where this diagram and similar diagrams for other stations appear. Interestingly what was built at Kissimmee looks nothing like what the diagram showed, which led to me losing confidence about what might actually get built at Deland. I guess we will just have to wait and see what the final design looks like. At least the Deland diagram has remained the same between 2011 and 2021, if that is a saving grace.
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jis
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Here is an interesting lengthy report on Central Florida long term vision for transit:
Regional Transit Study Report 2018
Unfortunately it is already out of date since several events in the real world have overtaken it. But it is interesting that it mentions an extension of Sunrail N-S Corridor to Lakeland on the CSX RoW. It has no mention of the SunRail E-W Corridor.
Interestingly there is mention of a rail transit corridor in Brevard County from Micco to Mims, which pretty much covers the FEC Coastal route from the border with Indian River County in the South at the St. Sebastian River to well North of Titusville Beyond Mims there is not much population until you get to New Smyrna Beach in Volusia County. There is also a long section discussing the the known SunRail plans and Brightline plans. There is just a handwavy mention of Brightline to Tampa, a more concrete mention of SunRail to Deland and OIA. There is no mention of extension of SunRail to Daytona which has been mentioned occasionally.
Anyway, have a go at it. I was not even aware that such a Central Florida focused study existed.
Regional Transit Study Report 2018
Unfortunately it is already out of date since several events in the real world have overtaken it. But it is interesting that it mentions an extension of Sunrail N-S Corridor to Lakeland on the CSX RoW. It has no mention of the SunRail E-W Corridor.
Interestingly there is mention of a rail transit corridor in Brevard County from Micco to Mims, which pretty much covers the FEC Coastal route from the border with Indian River County in the South at the St. Sebastian River to well North of Titusville Beyond Mims there is not much population until you get to New Smyrna Beach in Volusia County. There is also a long section discussing the the known SunRail plans and Brightline plans. There is just a handwavy mention of Brightline to Tampa, a more concrete mention of SunRail to Deland and OIA. There is no mention of extension of SunRail to Daytona which has been mentioned occasionally.
Anyway, have a go at it. I was not even aware that such a Central Florida focused study existed.
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Thanks for posting. Lots of moving pieces in this and hope it will result in a coordinated implementation. I guess if the Northern Expansion is on track maybe some of these other projects will be realized too. Brightline has progressed beyond the discussion in this report and will also be a reality in a few months. So the track record for some of this is pretty good. And there is a good discussion about the expansion of TriRail too and its planning work with the South Florida Regional Transit Authority (SFRTA).
I like their long range vision (Votran is Volusia county's bus network for Deland and Daytona);
'The SunRail project, when complete, will provide a key north-south transit spine for the metropolitan
Orlando area and a viable commuting option to the I-4 corridor. Enhanced local and commuter bus
operations currently complement the system by providing transfer opportunities to the LYNX and
Votran networks, ultimately increasing connectivity throughout the region. The SunRail project could
serve as the beginning of a regional rail network that can be potentially expanded throughout the
state."
And I found this intersting:
"Train wash services and heavy vehicle maintenance will continue to be provided at the existing
Amtrak Auto Train Yard in Sanford."
Glad Amtrak has at least one washer in service. Maybe they could run the Meteor/Star through it too!
The Orlando Sentinel had a headline today: Sunrail link takes big step forward”
The push for passenger rail that could link Orlando International Airport, SunRail commuter train, Orange County Convention Center, Universal Orlando Resort and the International Drive tourism district as soon as 2030 launched into reality Thursday with a formal move to create an entity that would underwrite a big chunk of the project. Universal Orlando Resort filed an application with Orange County to form a quasi-governmental body known as a community development district. Called a CDD, they typically are applied to residential developments where homeowners are assessed fees for community improvements. Named the Shingle Creek Transit Utility Community Development District, it would overlay one property, that of Universal Orlando, making the resort the sole fee payer within the district. It would be a cornerstone financing vehicle for the development of 11 miles of rail from the airport to the convention center for the publicly owned SunRail, but also leasing out track for usage by the private Brightline Trains.
The push for passenger rail that could link Orlando International Airport, SunRail commuter train, Orange County Convention Center, Universal Orlando Resort and the International Drive tourism district as soon as 2030 launched into reality Thursday with a formal move to create an entity that would underwrite a big chunk of the project. Universal Orlando Resort filed an application with Orange County to form a quasi-governmental body known as a community development district. Called a CDD, they typically are applied to residential developments where homeowners are assessed fees for community improvements. Named the Shingle Creek Transit Utility Community Development District, it would overlay one property, that of Universal Orlando, making the resort the sole fee payer within the district. It would be a cornerstone financing vehicle for the development of 11 miles of rail from the airport to the convention center for the publicly owned SunRail, but also leasing out track for usage by the private Brightline Trains.
Another article on the SunRail Northern Expansion to Deland. The graphic seems to be a good rendering of what it will look like.
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west point
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But no plan to get to Daytona. That would really tie Volusia county together.
jis
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There never was a plan to get it to Daytona. The extension to Deland is just completing Phase 2 of the original plan. In fact Volusia County tried hard to slime out of it but Florida DOT held the county to the original agreement that it signed.
west point
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I am getting bad reports from friends and family that the free rides on March 4th was a very bad experience. At least some trains were only 2 cars and one couple I know could not even get on the first one. The Sanford facility could have easily set up 4 car trains IMO. Anyone on this site involved in the screw up?
The free rides were offered because there were several events in the downtown area on Saturday March 4th. SunRail was running for free on a day when they do not normally run, which served as a benefit to the community. I have traveled on SunRail during "free" promotional rides, and, as expected, the trains were quite crowded.
I am not involved in SunRail (other than being a downtown Orlando resident and SunRail rider), and am offended that you refer to free "sold out" trains as a screw up. I see it as a success. Apparently many residents who normally do not travel on SunRail were able to experience the train and possibly will return or try to convince SunRail to operate on weekends. I did not see anything in today's newspaper alleging that there was any sort of "screw up" on the part of SunRail.
I have been on SunRail trains during the Winter Park Art Festival where it was standing room only. I was pleased to see so many residents using (and paying for) this service.
Mystic River Dragon
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I don’t see a screw up. I see a very nice goodwill gesture by SunRail to bring their equipment out on a weekend day when they don’t normally run and didn’t have to bother and to give some people an enjoyable ride on something they might not have been on before.
In general, I have found with free transportation that it’s good to be flexible and, if you really have to be somewhere, have a backup plan (Lyft, taxi, etc.). Otherwise, just treat it as an adventure. If you get to ride, great. If not, be happy for the people who did get the chance.
I have stayed in Winter Park and been on SunRail several times. I found it to be a first-class, rider-friendly travel option. I think they were just trying to do a good deed by running the free trains on the weekend, and I commend them for doing so.
In general, I have found with free transportation that it’s good to be flexible and, if you really have to be somewhere, have a backup plan (Lyft, taxi, etc.). Otherwise, just treat it as an adventure. If you get to ride, great. If not, be happy for the people who did get the chance.
I have stayed in Winter Park and been on SunRail several times. I found it to be a first-class, rider-friendly travel option. I think they were just trying to do a good deed by running the free trains on the weekend, and I commend them for doing so.
joelkfla
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But it wasn't a token of generosity. It was sponsored by Orlando Downtown Development Board.
I rode Sunrail from Altamonte to Poinciana on #401, the first March 4th Southbound train, then back to DeBary on #402 (same train heading back North), then down to Maitland to get a couple of subs at Kappy's, and then back to Altamonte. It was standing room only and then some at Altamonte on 401. Somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the pax detrained at Winter Park, though, and it was no longer overloaded, just nearly full. A friend got on at Kissimmee on the way back North on #402, and it ended up SRO again. I noticed that succeeding trains had an additional car added to the consist, increasing the pax capacity by a little over 50%. I didn't ride any of them so I can't report how crowded they were. I think Sunrail was really caught flatfooted at the huge pax count. There were a gazillion families with small children, not a few strollers, and a few bicycles.
I HOPE Sunrail will take this experiment as an indication of the kind of pax counts they would likely have if they started to actually RUN on Saturdays, perhaps with a family discount. All these folks and their families, on a weekend day off work, and delighted to be able to take Sunrail just to ride it or, as seemed to be the primary reason, to visit and just have fun at Winter Park, Orlando, Sanford, Kissimmee, etc.
It would be even nicer if they would start earlier than 2 pm. There are shuttles at Sanford Sunrail to take you into downtown Sanford, which is a really nice area, historic, with lots of small shops, some park areas, et. (they ran Saturday but not all day, and since the first northbound train didn't get to the Sanford station until around 5 pm, you wouldn't have had much time to actually see or do anything in Sanford), and a shuttle to the Central Florida Zoo would be nice to have running on Saturday in addition to their regular weekday service, if Sunrail ran on Saturday.
And, especially with Brightline getting very close to starting service, being able to take Sunrail down to the airport (OTHER than just on weekdays) to catch or return from Brightline would be WONDERFUL. At the moment, of course, they just have a bus bridge, basically, on Lynx (the local transit buses) running between one Sunrail station and MCO, but that would still beat driving and having to mortgage your house to pay for parking at MCO while you were visiting South Florida.
One other thought I have had is that since they WILL be running to Deland, why not put a station stop at Blue Spring State Park, which is literally right at the edge of the trackage on the way to Deland. It would give everybody in the Orlando area access to Blue Spring from their local Sunrail station, and that, in turn would make things like a field trip from the local Kissimmee-Orlando-Winter Park-Altamonte-Lake Mary-Sanford schools more practical, cheaper, and a lot safer than taking a bus.
In any event, we had a great time Saturday on Sunrail and had a couple of great subs at Kappy's in Maitland (about a 4-minute walk from Sunrail), a place I've been frequenting since late '71.
I HOPE Sunrail will take this experiment as an indication of the kind of pax counts they would likely have if they started to actually RUN on Saturdays, perhaps with a family discount. All these folks and their families, on a weekend day off work, and delighted to be able to take Sunrail just to ride it or, as seemed to be the primary reason, to visit and just have fun at Winter Park, Orlando, Sanford, Kissimmee, etc.
It would be even nicer if they would start earlier than 2 pm. There are shuttles at Sanford Sunrail to take you into downtown Sanford, which is a really nice area, historic, with lots of small shops, some park areas, et. (they ran Saturday but not all day, and since the first northbound train didn't get to the Sanford station until around 5 pm, you wouldn't have had much time to actually see or do anything in Sanford), and a shuttle to the Central Florida Zoo would be nice to have running on Saturday in addition to their regular weekday service, if Sunrail ran on Saturday.
And, especially with Brightline getting very close to starting service, being able to take Sunrail down to the airport (OTHER than just on weekdays) to catch or return from Brightline would be WONDERFUL. At the moment, of course, they just have a bus bridge, basically, on Lynx (the local transit buses) running between one Sunrail station and MCO, but that would still beat driving and having to mortgage your house to pay for parking at MCO while you were visiting South Florida.
One other thought I have had is that since they WILL be running to Deland, why not put a station stop at Blue Spring State Park, which is literally right at the edge of the trackage on the way to Deland. It would give everybody in the Orlando area access to Blue Spring from their local Sunrail station, and that, in turn would make things like a field trip from the local Kissimmee-Orlando-Winter Park-Altamonte-Lake Mary-Sanford schools more practical, cheaper, and a lot safer than taking a bus.
In any event, we had a great time Saturday on Sunrail and had a couple of great subs at Kappy's in Maitland (about a 4-minute walk from Sunrail), a place I've been frequenting since late '71.
I think the sheer volume of passengers caught them by surprise. The first southbound was just the standard consist, and was standing-room-basically only, but shortly thereafter they started adding an additional car to the consist. That obviously didn't help the first overcrowded train but helped subsequent ones. One of the conductors on that first train basically just waved off my suggestion of adding cars, saying they were "trainsets" and wouldn't be changed. I'm glad somebody at Sunrail in Sanford was on the ball and paying attention to what was being reported to them, certainly more than that conductor was.
west point
Engineer
That is the reason that the trains should have had more cars. Sun Rail was fully paid to provide the service and failed in that part of the contract. As said above Sun Rail has had other special event ridership's overwhelmed by trains without enough cars.
https://sunrail.com/ride-sunrail-for-free-on-saturday-march-4/
Agree Blue Spring state park is really a must. Last time there parking terrible and was escorting an ADA person. Problem is with no weekend service Blue Spring state park really would be neglected. BTW Blue Spring once was also served by FEC as well as ACL.
Big event today for the groundbreaking of the Northern Extension of SunRail. The crowd gathered at the current terminus of Debary. Almost 200 passengers boarded the special train to take the VIP's and interested citizens for the 12 mile ride to Deland. Passengers remarked how quiet the ride was and the mayor said he didn't realize how scenic this route was compared to SunRail elsewhere.
I would hope they eventually have a stop at one of the state's most popular state parks, Blue Springs,where you could also ride a bike on the the spring to spring loop that heads to the coast.
The current Amtrak station there was bustling with activity. Much of the ground has been cleared for the new parking area and SunRail platform adjacent to the current main track. The speaker's platform was well represented with city, county, and state officials as well as the heads of FDOT and SunRail. Herzog is doing the construction and appears to making good progress. Completion still on track for summer 2024. Since the station is several miles from downtown, there was talk of real estate development near by and then a dedicated bike path downtown with a welcome center, rental bikes, and retail near the station.
Debary has a very big parking lot and a nice station. Ridership is down post COVID and there was some concerned expressed about the future. I commented to anyone that would listen that they need weekend service (it directly serves several Orlando hospitals) and pursue the Sunshine corridor linking SunRail with the Orlando airport and the theme parks. Everyone agrees but, funding of course will be the issue.
These photos show - the current end of track that will become the second main; looking south at Debary with new signals in place; and the regular train on the right with the special on the left holding the mainline (and blocking AutoTrain and 91 for a couple hours!)
Last week I stopped at the Deland station. These give you an idea of the clearing work already done.
In Deland the press was in full cry with all the Orlando stations represented. Our county officials in the last election were lukewarm at best about the extension due to the cost. Apparently that has changed as they were all in support today. The head of the county commission told me that since it was going to happen, the doubters said, ok, lets do what we can to support it and make it viable.
These photos are of the ceremony and the obligatory shoveling the dirt.
And after the dust had settled, the VIP's return to Debary, I waited around there to see the now quite late A-T and 91. They had been sitting on the mainline just north of the Deland station waiting for eerything to clear out. A-T had been expected 30 min early in Sanford. It arrived 1'37"late.
I would hope they eventually have a stop at one of the state's most popular state parks, Blue Springs,where you could also ride a bike on the the spring to spring loop that heads to the coast.
The current Amtrak station there was bustling with activity. Much of the ground has been cleared for the new parking area and SunRail platform adjacent to the current main track. The speaker's platform was well represented with city, county, and state officials as well as the heads of FDOT and SunRail. Herzog is doing the construction and appears to making good progress. Completion still on track for summer 2024. Since the station is several miles from downtown, there was talk of real estate development near by and then a dedicated bike path downtown with a welcome center, rental bikes, and retail near the station.
Debary has a very big parking lot and a nice station. Ridership is down post COVID and there was some concerned expressed about the future. I commented to anyone that would listen that they need weekend service (it directly serves several Orlando hospitals) and pursue the Sunshine corridor linking SunRail with the Orlando airport and the theme parks. Everyone agrees but, funding of course will be the issue.
These photos show - the current end of track that will become the second main; looking south at Debary with new signals in place; and the regular train on the right with the special on the left holding the mainline (and blocking AutoTrain and 91 for a couple hours!)
Last week I stopped at the Deland station. These give you an idea of the clearing work already done.
In Deland the press was in full cry with all the Orlando stations represented. Our county officials in the last election were lukewarm at best about the extension due to the cost. Apparently that has changed as they were all in support today. The head of the county commission told me that since it was going to happen, the doubters said, ok, lets do what we can to support it and make it viable.
These photos are of the ceremony and the obligatory shoveling the dirt.
And after the dust had settled, the VIP's return to Debary, I waited around there to see the now quite late A-T and 91. They had been sitting on the mainline just north of the Deland station waiting for eerything to clear out. A-T had been expected 30 min early in Sanford. It arrived 1'37"late.
joelkfla
Engineer
The citizens of Orange County voted down the proposed transportation sales tax. You get what you pay for.
Good way to gain transit supporters?
Couldn’t they find some way to hold their ceremony without delaying those trains?
Yes, it would have been easy to back the train onto the wye track next to the station. Would have saved much of the delay.
But, it would also ruin the optics with the train serving as the backdrop for the ceremony and a drone shot of it appeared on the front page of the Orlando Sentinel.
If there was ever a good reason to delay Amtrak this would probably qualify. Beats ‘freight train interference’. No doubt the passengers on the trains would not agree.
A better solution would have been to schedule the ceremony an hour later but it was probably tough to get that many leadership attendees together at one time. Perhaps they should have invited Gardner!
No doubt.
If I happened to be one of them, and learned of the cause, I would not be a happy camper, to put it mildly…
McIntyre2K7
Service Attendant
It appears FDOT is holding a virtual workshop to extend SunRail to Lakeland. There could be 7 additional stops. You can view the study at the url below.
https://sunrailext.meetsyou.online/
If they are going to extend it to Lakeland they might as well add an additional 3 stops and extend it to Tampa. I know CSX would need to approve it but people could take day trips to Orlando without dealing with I-4. They could start shuttle services from the Sand Lake Rd Station. The shuttle would take 20 minutes to get from that stop to either Universal or SeaWorld. It's a 10 minute ride to MCO from there. Disney could start a shuttle from the Poinciana stop.
https://sunrailext.meetsyou.online/
If they are going to extend it to Lakeland they might as well add an additional 3 stops and extend it to Tampa. I know CSX would need to approve it but people could take day trips to Orlando without dealing with I-4. They could start shuttle services from the Sand Lake Rd Station. The shuttle would take 20 minutes to get from that stop to either Universal or SeaWorld. It's a 10 minute ride to MCO from there. Disney could start a shuttle from the Poinciana stop.
jis
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Target date of service is 2035!
This morning I checked on SunRail progress on its northern extension to Deland. The first photo shows two CWR long rail sections next to the main line (station track). It turns out one of them was removed last night and replaced with new rail (along with some new ties). The other rail is new and will replace the other one tonight. This is the mainline rail not the new SunRail track. Apparently a large track force showed up at 10pm last night and completed it by daylight.
The second photo shows the one new rail in place and a new assembled turnout. There were two of them. Rather than a stub siding for SunRail the north end of their new track will tie back into the mainline with trains unloading on the station side then crossing over and loading on the new track and platform. Good idea, provides a lot more flexibility to the operation.
The second photo shows the one new rail in place and a new assembled turnout. There were two of them. Rather than a stub siding for SunRail the north end of their new track will tie back into the mainline with trains unloading on the station side then crossing over and loading on the new track and platform. Good idea, provides a lot more flexibility to the operation.
