Going to the Beech: Beech Grove Shops that is

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Downtown Indy .jpg
Downtown Indianapolis, IN.

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The World War Monument in downtown

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The large circle in the middle of downtown.

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This has to be one of America's weirdest traffic intersections.

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The Indiana State House.

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A closer view of the Indiana State House.

Indy Theater District .jpg
In the theater district I believe.

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Union Station

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Union Station
 
Day 7: Work day 2

So again we woke up around six to get started early before the real heat of the day kicked in (high of 72) and I have to say I was a bit cold going to the car this morning. This time we took surface streets to the yard and stopped at a McDonalds for breakfast before signing into the yard. Once on the property we got back to the projects we had left the day before. Nigel and I crawled under the A end and started taking the brake cylinders off.

And again more than their fair share of plugs got caught and had to be wrestled down and out. One of which took us over an hour but we felt great when that one came out. Words can’t describe how good that felt. It took me a good four hours to get these cylinders off just because of the 18 years of funk and grime under them. After that I noticed Ben Butterworth in the yard so I walked over and asked for advice on what to do to get the Amtrak markings off.

Well that turned into an hour long lesson but I think I learned something. So when I returned I sent Nigel out with the list of things to go grab from the nearby Lowe’s and I helped Malcolm vacuuming out the air conditioning vents from dust and dirt. After that it was time that lunch arrived and we took another break in the vestibule of our car. Everyone eating in the same exact spots as the last time.

After lunch Nigel started sucking the leaves and other junk that had entered the water tank area out while I helped Malcolm finish up. After that Nigel and I started work on the Amtrak markings. Him holding my ladder and the next important thing a bucket of water for me to douse my hand in after paint stripper got on it. Let me tell you paint stripper burns and stings like crazy. But we did manage to get an eighth of one side of our car done before taking a brake for ice cream.

After the ice cream beak we went back to work trying to scrape the paint off the side and stopped around six. Then the four of us took a group picture next to the cars name plate. Then we all worked our way back to the gate and signed out. We all wanted to freshen up before our big dinner at the Ratskeller. So we all took our showers Malcolm elected to take a nap for a short bit and he ubered over after a bit. Till Malcolm arrived Nigel and I were the only souls other then our sweetheart of a waitress. We had a good time too chatting with her about the railcar and life in general.

I can give anyone advice on where to go in Germany so naturally at a German restaurant I can use that. My Instagram feed is mostly Germany anyway so it’s easy for me to find photos. The building the restaurant is in appears to be very authentic by USA standards. It is a really cool place and I highly recommend visiting there if you are in the area. The food was very good as well. Definitely some of the better german food I’ve had outside of Germany. That being said though I would much rather be in Germany.

After dinner we went back to the hotel and packed most of our things for our early morning departure.
 
Evening at the shops .jpg
Evening at the shops with an AC&F car front and center.

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A former Northern Pacific Diner in the deadline

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Goodbye Phase IV Paint.

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Burnt Superliners

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The deadline by our car

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Two hours of work to start taking the paint off. And that is literally all that I got done. It's a start though.

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Of course the work crew had to take a picture next to the car. At least part of it that still has the Phase IV paint. For now that is. Note I have a New York Central hard hat for a NYC shop, and John has his L&N one from his carman days.
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Downtown Indy at night.

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The Ratskeller of Indy.
 

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Day 8: Whirlwind around Kentucky

We had planned to be leaving the Indy area around six in the morning so we could see the Max amount of things in Indiana and Kentucky. Our friend John Owen from Louisville wanted to show us his home area so he was going to lead us. We actually started our day an hour late because none of us wanted to wake up and we drove south on I65 to Sellersburg, IN to meet John who we met at a McDonalds but had breakfast at the Burger King across the street. We would have met john a few miles further up the road but we made good time.

So we backtracked up to Scottsburg on back roads following the Louisville & Indiana Railroad. Our first stop on our tour was the interurban car at Iola Lake which used to be part of the interurban power station. So after walking around the lake to see the old interurban we went back to our cars and followed john to the Pennsylvania Railroad station at Scottsburg. Which we spent five minutes at. After that we went south down to the Southern Indiana Railway Company of Sellersburg, IN.

John said they had lost their last customer a few months before but the track appeared to still be in service because it looked reasonably well maintained. Even had a bit of polish on the rail. After walking around their location we went to the Louisville & Indiana Railroad’s headquarters to see if anything was there. We ended up getting lucky and there was a two engine set building trains in their Jeffersonville yard. We took several photos before we went over to their engine shop.

John has taken a lot of time and got us a waiver to come onto the railroad property to see the power. So we went over to the engine shop and photographed some of the power laying over there. I love their Pennsylvania Railroad inspired paint scheme. After that we went to the New York Central “Big Four” freight station and bridge over the Ohio River in Jeffersonville before John got lost due to road closures trying to show us another rail site.

Eventually after an hour of being lost we crossed over the Ohio River into Kentucky around noon. We stopped at the Ohio River draw bridge of the Louisville & Indiana because our waiver included it. After that we went to visit John’s friend who used to work for the Auto-Train Corp as an electrician. He had the auto Train electricians manual with the information on how the car we were working on was wired. Which he thought we should see. After visiting Andy we went to Louisville Union Station which was a big place in John’s youth.

We saw the track the Kentucky Cardinal used to use in the street and the head house before taking off for the Paducah & Louisville Railroad yard where on another waiver we watched a slugset build a train. Before racing to South Louisville to watch their interchange train leave town. After that we got on the interstate and went for the Kentucky Railway Museum at New Haven. On the way we passed by the airport where there was a Boeing 747 on the tarmac. We arrived at the museum shortly before closing but because everyone in the state is friends with John they stayed open for us.

So we ended up having the entire property to ourselves to walk around. Very far back in their storage line is an ex Santa Fe baggage from the Amtrak auction. After thirty minutes of walking around there we took off for Bardstown Kentucky to look at the RJ Corman dinner train. Unfortunately the F units that are usually with it weren’t there this time but a cool genset was. After that we stopped for gas and proceeded to Versailles, KY (not pronounced like the palace) along the way we passed the Lawrenceburg High Bridge before stopping at the Bluegrass Railroad Museum.

John had arranged for us a speeder ride on their five mile ex Southern Railway railroad. So after exploring the museum grounds for a short bit the four of us piled in a speeder and took off for the high bridge. I put my Safety Vest on in order to flag public crossings and away we went. The line is actually quite scenic in Kentucky’s Rolling Hills that are part of horse country. After about twenty minutes we reached the end of the line at the High Bridge. We took a group photo and got back on the speeder to head back to Versailles.

One thing about speeders they make your teeth rattle as you go along the rails. And you feel every imperfection in the rail. After looking at the rest of their exhibits we went to the old Southern Railway station for dinner. However we had to rush out without eating because it was supposed to take two and a half hours to get to Indy and Malcolm and I were ticketed on the eastbound Cardinal No. 50 and it was rapidly approaching eight PM.

So we bid farewell to John at the restaurant and the three of us ate our dinner and only meal of the day at speed on the way north back to Indy. On the way Malcolm slept and Nigel and I literally spent the afternoon laughing and having a good time. With the music of Jesus Christ Superstar on the entire way. We made it to Indy by 11 PM and we went to the hotel to pick up our bags at the hotel and drove back around the building to the dump that is the Amtrak station.

Of course when we went to the door for the Amtrak station it was locked. So we had to enter the terminal by entering from one of the bus bays for Greyhound. We said goodbye to Nigel and we went into the station. I have to say I thought the Pittsburgh station was bad but as bad as it is. Indianapolis manages to top it. Indy has to be one of the worst stations in the nation. After a short time the sounds of the Cardinal rumbling in filled the space and we went up the stairs.

I took a photo of the locomotive at the head of our train before boarding our Viewliner I sleeper Evening View for the journey East. At 11:45 the train moved several car lengths down the platform well before the scheduled departure of 11:59. Then exactly on time we departed eastward. Malcolm and I were both fast asleep soon afterwards.
 
Interurban at Iola Park.jpg
The interurban car at Iola Lake in Scottsburg, IN

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Lake Iola at Scottsburg, IN

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Scottsburg, IN Downtown

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Scottsburg, IN Pennsylvania Railroad Station

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The Louisville & Indiana right of way in Scottsburg

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The Louisville & Indiana switching in Jeffersonville, IN

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The Louisville & Indiana switching under the Louisville Skyline.

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A more artsy shot of the L&I switching.

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Changing the focus on the previous shot a bit. Which is better?

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The Louisville & Indiana shops at Jeffersonville, IN
 
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Crossing the Ohio River into Louisville, KY

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Downtown Louisville, KY

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The L&I Bridge at Louisville

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The Louisville Skyline from the EX PRR Bridge into the city.

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Louisville Union Station the short lived terminal of the Kentucky Cardinal

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Inside Louisville Union Station.

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The Paducah & Louisville yard job switching P&L Local .jpg
The Paducah & Louisville Norfolk Southern transfer job.

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A Boeing 747 at the Louisville airport.
 
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The Kentucky Railway Museum's Santa Fe CF7

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One of very few L&N E units surviving.

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A Monon BL2 at KRM.

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A scene at KRM

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A CSX MP15E on the point of the KRM Passenger Train

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The RJ Corman Dinner train at Bardstown, KY

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Downtown Bardstown, KY

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The High Bridge over the Kentucky River
 
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A N&W Highhood at the Bluegrass Railroad Museum

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A Budd combine from the Southern Pacific's Sunset Limited

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Bluegrass Railroad Museum's EX Southern mainline

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The High Bridge at Track Level

Speeder.jpg
Our speeder at the high bridge.

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An Illinois Central Gulf GP16 at Versailes, KY

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St. Augustine diner

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A former US Army Road Switcher capable of running on multiple gauges around the world.

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Downtown Versailles, KY
 
Day 9: The Cardinal and Crescent

Thanks to Malcolm knowing I like to get off at every stretch stop he woke me up sometime between Ashland and Huntington with plenty of time to get ready. I recognized some familiar scenery nearing Huntington and was ready for the stretch stop. I took the most amazing photo of the engineer climbing onto the P42DC with him and the train completely silhouetted in the sunrise. I would have been so upset to have missed that opportunity. And I revisited my old stomping ground South Yard Home of the Plumbtrician.

We departed Huntington on time and made our way East past the narrow gauge railway at one of the plants along the route. Malcolm and I enjoyed our ultra modern, hip, and cool breakfast which was the same cereal from my childhood fruit loops. We arrived into Charleston ten minutes early and I took advantage of that dwell time get a photo of the head end. Afterwards it was time for the Gorge but our room was on the wrong side.

So Malcolm and I just worked on our business plan instead because there was no real scenery to be seen. We crossed the river at Hawks Nest which is my preferred crossing from when I used to work New River Train and then we had some scenery. It is a very special route to me but I’ve done it so often that I could tell you exactly where we are based on the trees I see from the window.

We ordered our lunch around 11 around Anderson and it came around 11:40. The meat wasn’t god awful but I couldn’t make out what the side was and it looked god awful. So I only ate the meat, and the dessert. I find it odd you can’t get a can of sprite with lunch. But it sure did make youthful heart feel great to waste all of the sides because they weren’t any good. Mr. Gardner truly understands what we young people want when we eat. Of course if he actually did understand he would have found something far better than this mush.

At our next stop of Clifton Forge, VA we arrived 11 minutes early so plenty of time to enjoy seeing the locomotive and get fresh air on the platform. I’ve always found the Cardinal route incredibly scenic between Clifton Forge and Charlottesville so I was ready to enjoy a beautiful day from the train. We arrived at our next stop of Staunton 17 minutes early so again I enjoyed another stretch the locomotive. I think seeing the Cardinal routinely shows up early here it could be possible to do a New Buffalo style self catering if the train is on time. And something I will have to look into.

We ran into our first and only opposing traffic at the siding just before Charlottesville the westbound Cardinal and a CSX Empty coal train. Other than that the entire way from Indy we have seen no trains. We lost twenty minutes waiting on the coal train but not bad for a long haul on a train. Again I took advantage of the stretch stop at Charlottesville while a large amount of passengers boarded the two coaches on the train. I asked Malcolm if he has ever seen the Gordonsville Marine to which he said he hadn’t. So at Gordonsville, VA we found a window on his side of the house.

And as always the marine stood at attention on his porch at the same level as the track and saluted the train as it passed. In all of my trips on the Cardinal over the last ten years he has never failed to meet a train. Always standing at exact attention and saluting. After that it was a brief ride up the Orange Branch to get onto the Southern mainline for the journey north. We made a quick trip north on the Ex Southern without meeting any traffic.

I detrained at 5:24 in Manassas 14 minutes late to connect with the crescent. I know I could have connected at Charlottesville but I wanted to salute the marine and there is a very good Taco place in downtown Manassas. I photographed the train departing Manassas and enjoyed my evening in Manassas. I called my friend Ryan from Manassas because him and I used to work out of here in 2014-2016 and he knew where the taco place is that I forgot.

I couldn’t find the place so I settled for Foster’s Grille by the station the place we used to get milkshakes. After having a decent hamburger at their outdoor seating I went over to the VRE platform to photograph the evening rush. Due to Covid VRE was running a reduced amount of trains but I still managed to photograph two of those, and the Roanoker headed south at the station. After that I talked to two young railfans on the platform while waiting for the Crescent Train No. 19.

For some reason the Crescent was running forty minutes late out of Alexandria so I had extra time to talk to them. It arrived almost exactly at sunset with the last heritage engine I need to photograph of Amtrak No. 184 Phase IV. Even though my short lens was broken my long range did work so I of course had to photograph it and I was so happy to see it.

We had a charming conductor who enjoyed seeing photos of why I was in the grove and a very great sleeping car attendant. He had two cars that he was responsible for on this southbound and him and I spent a lot of time talking and sharing photos of trains between each other. He’s a big buff as well so we enjoyed each other’s company for quite a ways. After culpepper I went to sleep and because of the heritage unit I set my alarm for Charlotte.
 
50 at IND.jpg
The Cardinal No. 50 at Indianapolis Union Station

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This is probably going to go down as my favorite photo I've taken of all time. Such a timeless image.

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Mornings Twilight at Huntington. How I missed you my old friends.

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The Cardinal No. 50 at Huntington, WV.

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The Cardinal No. 50 under the Huntington, WV Skyline

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The Cardinal No. 50 at Charleston, WV

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The New River Gorge on the western crossing

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Passing under the famous bridge.

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Nearing Hinton, WV

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The Cardinal No. 50 at Clifton Forge, VA
 
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We are Marshall leading the Braddock Inn. I miss you my old friends.

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The Charleston, WV Skyline

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Contemporary crap beaf dish.

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The C&O SD40 at the C&O Museum in Clifton Forge

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The C&O Heritage Center

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The Cardinal No. 50 at Staunton, VA

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Downtown Staunton, VA

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The Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia.

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The Cardinal No. 50 at Charlottesville, VA

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Norfolk Southern passing behind the Cardinal. I love some of the clutter in the shot.
 
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The Gordonsville Marine

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Looking thru the window into the baggage car. Looks like Amtrak Express was doing well this day.

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The Hallway in the new Viewliner II Bag/Dorm

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The new Viewliner II Roomette

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The Cardinal No. 50 departing Manassas, VA

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Foreground clutter can sometimes make a photo much better. From Foster's Grille Gallary Cars VRE MSS.jpg
Gallery Cars headed south out of Manassas

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Another Virginia Railway Express arriving at Manassas

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The Roanoker arriving into Manassas

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The Roanoker at Manassas Station
 
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Amfleets in the sun. I love how the more orange lights of sunset make the image look more timeless than otherwise. Especially seeing these are classic cars at this point.

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Downtown Manassas, VA

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The Crescent No. 19 arriving in Manassas behind Phase IV heritage unit No. 184
 
Day 10: Unexpected Unplanned Adventures

I woke up as we were rapidly approaching Charlotte where I got off for a second to get a photo of the heritage unit and the Northbound Crescent arriving. Then I tried to sleep for a bit setting my alarm for Greenville. My lovely attendant also made sure I was awake. And I then spent the next thirty miles talking to him into clemson. It felt like five minutes but according to status maps it was thirty five minutes.

My best friend Ryan and I had planned to spend the day with me in the upstate if SC so he told me when the heritage unit was on the train “when you get off the train run to the car we’re chasing” so I got off and literally ran down the ramp to his car. Threw my bag into his car as the train brake released. Then got in we rolled down the steep hill to US 123 and started our chase. We were even with him as he crossed Lake Hartwell just south of the station on a long viaduct. It was honestly really beautiful seeing the lit up lights of the train moving over the moonlit lake.

The train caught up to us by Westminster and crossed under us as we proceeded running south. At the state line he was crossing Lake Hartwell again a long side us. We kept moving and beat him to Gainesville by about ten minutes where the sun was rising. We enjoyed shooting him with one other railfan at Gainesville before using the station waiting room to charge both of our cameras for an hour. While we were sitting we tried planning what we would do with our day.

We decided because the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth, GA was only thirty miles away we would stop in there. So we went to the museum. We enjoyed the China display at the museum which also Included some airlines like Pan American World Airways. Ryan and I met several years ago because of our love of trains but were both big aviation buffs too. So we were impressed by their inclusion of some airline history. Outside the display on dining was my grandfathers steam engine so it was great to see her again.

My grandfather was the head machinist for the Savannah & Atlanta No. 750 (4-6-2) back when it was in revenue service. Always good to see that engine when I’m out and about but I haven’t been to visit it since 2003. After admiring it we walked around the various passenger cars on display a Northern Pacific slumbercoach, a Wabash Blue Bird Observation dome, and a few others. After spending an hour on the property we were ready to go somewhere else. So we looked and happened to see Stone Mountain was only eight miles away.

The Stone Mountain Scenic runs either a F Unit or an old High Hood GP9 for power. So we decided that would be cool to see and photograph. On our way navigating across suburban roads it was mostly smooth sailing except we ran into a vintage car parade of 200-300 cars which had a police escort. Which delayed our journey over by twenty minutes. Of course we had a good time catching up and making jokes while waiting. We arrived at Stone Mountain and paid the twenty dollars to park the car before getting in line to get tickets into the park.

What we didn’t realize was to photograph the train where we wanted to we didn’t have to pay admission but we paid another twenty per person to go in but it included a ride on the train. Which this day was led by the F unit on their roster. Both of us were very impressed with the engineer because he had zero slack when starting, slowing, accelerating, and stopping. We figure he is a retired Amtrak engineer based on his train handling skills. After a ride around the mountain we photographed the train under the mountain and my short lens came back to life for that shot.

After shooting him there we shot him again at the crossing with the main hiking trail up the mountain which is on a curve. After that we started heading back to Clemson as I wanted to be home before dark especially given the little sleep I had had. Again we caught up on our love lifted and he was very impressed by the woman I know who is a B777-300ER pilot. I took a brief nap before Toccoa because I wanted to be rested for the drive home.

After that brief nap we talked a bit more before going to our favorite diner in SC. Paws Diner in Keowee, SC which is just south of Clemson. For five dollars you get a drink, meat, and two sides. Not a bad deal. It’s a grungy country/college diner. It had closed previously for a few months and reopened. We were happy to see it return. After that we drove the short distance to the station and bid our goodbyes. Of course that is a ten minute procedure of checking signals and trying to say goodbye.

After that I left the station down the steep drive way turned left on US 76 to begin my trip home. Once I passed Perimeter Road I diverted onto SC 28 into Pendleton which is a route my ex taught me as a shortcut around Anderson traffic. Once I approached the Z Line bridge i diverged onto two different residential streets in Pendleton to get around downtown to SC 88. It is rather odd I used to make this drive all the time but it felt like the landmarks were more spread out than they were before.

Despite the fact they were all in the same exact spots. It’s amazing how much this part of the state has changed in the last few years. Namely I believe I saw a Dollar General at least three times while I was on SC 88 where there had been nothing before. Slabtown isn’t even on a map and the diner looks run down but it has a dollar general now. After thirty minutes I turned onto SC 8 for the journey thru Pelzer. For whatever reason the area by Pelzer has some of the cheapest gas prices in the state. On the way out I passed the Bargain Food Store which for whatever reason has always somewhat fascinated me.

It’s surrounded by a tall fence and in the mornings at open time there is a long line of cars waiting to get in. So it’s fascinating. After two more miles going up a steep hill I turned right onto US25 which is a four lane road in an area with light traffic. I’ve never quite understood why the road is as nice as it is. But for some reason it is which makes it smooth sailing. After ten miles I turn onto US76 which I took on my way out to Clemson at Princeton. And work my way thru Laurens, and Clinton.

I talked to Ryan for a bit as I paralleled the CSX CN&L sub before diverging away to take SC 219. If you are trying to get to Northeast Columbia from western SC taking SC 219 to US 176 to SC 213 to SC 215 is your best method. If I went via Columbia it would add at least an hour instead it takes me instead less than an hour from Newberry to Blythewood. Of course I know another short cut that cuts from SC 215 over to US 21. I SAS trying to beat the sunset at this point because I know this part of the state is bad for deer so I was working hard to make it in time.

I had just reached my small town, and gotten in the drive thru of one of the few fast food places in town when the sunset. Meaning my last mile was after sunset but not a bad run. I enjoyed my road trip back from Clemson. I’ve always enjoyed these road trips though.
 
19 at CLT.jpg
The Crescent No. 19 at Charlotte Station

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The Crescent No. 19 arriving into Gainesville, GA

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The Crescent No. 19 resting at Gainesville, GA

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The Crescent No. 19 departing Gainesville, GA

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One of the last Southern Railway E Units to lead the Crescent

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A Northern Pacific Slumbercoach in Amtrak Phase III
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A CSX SD45-2 on display

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A Georgia Railroad high hood GP 7 S&A 750.jpg
My grandfather's engine the Savannah & Atlanta No. 750 (4-6-2) also known as the Little Ballerina
 
Wabash Dome SERM.jpg
A dome from the Wabash Blue Bird. Johnny Cash filmed his train documentary on this car.

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Stone Mountain Scenic Railroad.

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The Stone Mountain Scenic Railroad passing under Stone Mountain

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The Stone Mountain Scenic rounding one of the more accessible curves on the railroad.

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The Hartwell Railroad's power laying over in Toccoa, GA
 
Conclusion

Overall it was a very productive trip. I managed to get over 700 new miles in my rail atlas across Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Michigan, Indiana, and Kentucky. I managed to take some really cool photos in a handful of locations. So overall not a bad little trip. That being said we didn’t get near the amount of work we had planned done which means all of us will have to return up there to finish the job. Maybe on this next trip I can take the City of New Orleans and Crescent so I can finish two more routes out of my atlas.

It was a good trip with lots of laughs, beautiful memories made, and something I’ll never forget. In addition Beech Grove shops is one of the more unique places my career has taken me thus far. And I’m sure over the next few years my destinations will remain just as unique and maybe more so. As we embark on the adventure of a lifetime.

I am not the largest fan of posting my travelogues from the website for AU but I will always post my reports for you. I still miss the AU app which is where I wrote and published all of my other trip reports over the years. I hope you all enjoyed.
 
That's not a trip report....it's a book!

Very enjoyable read...thanks for posting along with the accompanying photo's.:)

I hope you enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed going.

Wow, exactly as @railiner said - bookworthy. Eagerly anticipated and worth the wait. ;)

I'm glad you enjoyed it. And you already know there is a second volume on the way as soon as I can find the time to go back up there.

Again Wow!......What a Book!!
Thank you. Is it any surprise to anyone that I really like writing. I have actually written a book and it's 1,200 pages long and in need of some serious editing to bring it back under 600 pages to where it could be commercialized.

It's funny I thought this was one of my worst trip reports I've written. With the lack of interacting in lounge cars on trains it definitely is different to me.

I assume I won't have that issue when I ride the Trans Siberian next summer.
 
I knew you enjoyed rendering on board services, but I never realized you also enjoy "getting down and dirty", (or up and dirty, as the case may be)😁

Anyway, I have a newfound respect for your obvious mechanical abilities....:)
 
I knew you enjoyed rendering on board services, but I never realized you also enjoy "getting down and dirty", (or up and dirty, as the case may be)😁

Anyway, I have a newfound respect for your obvious mechanical abilities....:)

I love getting down and dirty. What I don't mention a lot is that my PV Career started unclogging toilets. I wasn't originally in on board services I was in mechanical. I actually transitioned to on board services a year or two into my career. I'm really good with people because I love talking and learning other points of view. Of course my knack for languages is also an added benefit. I always compare mechanical and OBS as needing the same skillset both require fixing complicated problems with a limited amount of tools in a limited amount of time. The only difference is mechanical problems can't talk yell at you.

There is still a lot for me to learn on the mechanical side. I'm lucky I have two amazing carmen on my speed dial that I can call at any hour to get me out of a jam. And I call them regularly just to learn new things. I always joke with people when I'm flirting I can cook, clean, make a bed, fix the air conditioner, fix the electrical, and fix the plumbing.

When it comes to railroading there are only two things I'm not confident in my skills with at this point, running the train, and management.
 
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