Amtrak goes straight to STB to restore Gulf Coast service.

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I don't disagree, jiml, but I still feel strongly that if they aren't going to run the service, they should file official discontinuance on it and put this "suspended" fairy tale to an end.

Of course, filing discontinuance now on a train that hasn't run in 16 years will probably be noticed in the press and make them look foolish. They should have filed when CSX notified them that line was restored some months after Katrina, since they clearly did not intend to resume service at that point.
 
The interesting thing is - Amtrak ran a test train with dignitaries on it after the line was restored ... the claim was that the enough states/counties/cities involved were not in support of the resumption if they were going to have to help fund it.
 
The killer for the restoration of the Gulf Coast is run time. Reality check, New Orleans to Jacksonville:
Highway: 546 miles, 8 hours of driving
Old Gulf Wind Schedule: 613 miles, 15 hours.
That run time goes back to when L&N-SAL were trying to run an as fast as practical train, not what would now be practical. I do not know what their maximum line speeds were, but in the 1960's L&N usually had a maximum 70 mph passenger train speed limit on signaled territory and 55 mph on unsignaled territory. SAL, I have no idea. The slight increase to the allowed limits of 79 mph / 59 mph would be relatively meaningless given other constraints.

Most of the extra 57 miles in distance is the dogleg Mobile - Flomaton AL - Pensacola. 104 miles by rail versus the direct I-10 highway distance of 58 miles. Then there is the unsignaled line Flomaton to Tallahassee, 248 miles of legal speed limit of 59 mph. By the way, signals with their potential 79 mph speed limit don't mean that suddenly you can run that speed throughout. You still have curves and other restrictions in play.

New Orleans to Mobile should be another story, as the road versus rail distance is about equal and the railroad is relatively straight (and flat). However, short to medium distance service need to have multiple trains per day to attract decent ridership.
 
What would be a best case scenario here? Improved track and signaling could get the NO to Jacksonville run down to what, 12 hours? Even if it was 15, it would still be quicker (and cheaper) than going around to get to NO from Fla. It's a gap that needs to be closed, not the only one, not even the most important one. But still.
 
jiml said:
If we move past the novelty of having a true "trans-continental" train, restoring the Sunset to Florida makes no sense. Timekeeping alone makes it impractical. It makes much more sense to have a local day train or extend the CONO eastward from NOL.
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I agree that the Sunset should terminate in New Orleans, but instead of extending the CONO eastward, I would like to see a separate train that would run from New Orleans to Miami.

If a same day connection at New Orleans was not practical, New Orleans is a great place to stay overnight...
 
railiner said:
I wouldn't mind at all if they could use this old schedule between Miami and New Orleans.
http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19960414n&item=0029
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It's a shame there isn't a more northerly arc for a New Orleans-Florida train, rather than the circuitous and slow route via Pensacola. Is it necessary to continue to Jacksonville, rather just heading to central Florida/Orlando? I know some CSX track has been abandoned, but not sure which.
 
jiml said:
It's a shame there isn't a more northerly arc for a New Orleans-Florida train, rather than the circuitous and slow route via Pensacola. Is it necessary to continue to Jacksonville, rather just heading to central Florida/Orlando? I know some CSX track has been abandoned, but not sure which.
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Yes, it is necessary to pass through Jacksonville. There used to be a line which bypassed the Jacksonville area, but it has been abandoned for many years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Cutoff
 
jiml said:
It's a shame there isn't a more northerly arc for a New Orleans-Florida train, rather than the circuitous and slow route via Pensacola.
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Well there is, sort of...they could use some of the route of Amtraks former Floridian, but it would be a considerably longer route, via Valdosta and Montgomery before coming back down to Mobile. And Florida wouldn't support it since it would not serve Tallahassee or the rest of the panhandle stations....
 
As a start Amtrak could route passengers on the Crescent to ATL. Then a new train to JAX to connect to one of the silvers. ATL - JAX ~350 new rail miles. ATL - NOL ~522 rail miles New Orleans - JAX ~616 rail miles and Mobile - JAX ~470 rail miles. Just ~ 255 rail miles farther by way of ATL.

So Amtrak could set NOL / and beyond - JAX fares as if direct. This would mean fewer new rail miles and serve a much greater potential market. However The revised Crescent schedule is a real impediment to operate this connecting route. Would need to return to old schedule. This routing would help fill the Crescent's low passenger numbers NOL - ATL.
 
west point said:
As a start Amtrak could route passengers on the Crescent to ATL. Then a new train to JAX to connect to one of the silvers. ATL - JAX ~350 new rail miles. ATL - NOL ~522 rail miles New Orleans - JAX ~616 rail miles and Mobile - JAX ~470 rail miles. Just ~ 255 rail miles farther by way of ATL.

So Amtrak could set NOL / and beyond - JAX fares as if direct. This would mean fewer new rail miles and serve a much greater potential market. However The revised Crescent schedule is a real impediment to operate this connecting route. Would need to return to old schedule. This routing would help fill the Crescent's low passenger numbers NOL - ATL.
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Three trains to get between ORL & NOL. Only the most intrepid railfan would bother.

A single transfer is acceptable to some passengers; two is too many.
 
If the direct as you can get route via Pensacola and Tallahassee is too slow, how on earth can it be expected that a longer route, via Montgomery or Montgomery - Atlanta - Jacksonville be expected to attract passengers? Not happening. Higher average speeds between intermediate points is meaningless if end to end times are longer. The only rationale for these longer routes would be shorter haul passengers between these intermediate points. Besides which, neither the Montgomery - Atlanta nor the Atlanta - Jacksonville routes are very straight nor have they ever been fast.
 
George Harris said:
If the direct as you can get route via Pensacola and Tallahassee is too slow, how on earth can it be expected that a longer route, via Montgomery or Montgomery - Atlanta - Jacksonville be expected to attract passengers? Not happening. Higher average speeds between intermediate points is meaningless if end to end times are longer. The only rationale for these longer routes would be shorter haul passengers between these intermediate points. Besides which, neither the Montgomery - Atlanta nor the Atlanta - Jacksonville routes are very straight nor have they ever been fast.
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I agree with you, but since many long-haul rail passenger's are not "time-sensitive", adding a few hours to a long trip really doesn't matter. Back when the Floridian operated, and before the Sunset Ltd was extended, some passengers used Birmingham as a connection point between Florida and New Orleans.
Now some will go all the way up to Washington to do the same. Or travel two nights between Florida and Chicago, when the Floridian did it in one night...
 
Although I only had the ATL connection go to JAX suspect an ATL - JAX train might have some or all cars join a silver at JAX onto MIA. Either Silver has too many thru passengers at JAX to allow ATL <> JAX passengers to connect there to points beyond JAX. As well Gulf Breeze probably needs connecting cars. NOL <> JAX prior times were ~ 15"45.

There is the possibility of an ATL <> JAX will have a large number of passenger originating on that route. The few from NOL thru ATL would be ~21:00 + 2 hours connecting time = 23:00. Passenger traveling from NOL would just fill Half a car. Mainly from Sunset which at present is just 3 days a week.

For Crescent it would be natural for originations at Hattiesburg ( 2:30 to NOL + 2:00 connecting time ) = ~ 20:15 HBG <> ATL ~ 10 :15 +2:00 connecting time. ATL <> JAX previous was 8:20 = ~ 20:00. Not realistic now. So we have any passengers HBG and north taking Crescent to ATL and new train to JAX in less time than going back to NOL. Once again some of our posters are just considering end points It is the intermediate stations that are important.

These stations Meridian, Tuscaloosa, Birmingham, + ATL , Macon , Valdosta provide more potential passengers. Plus newly implemented route miles is less on NS, CSX, or combination . The Gulf breeze route will require 2 full train sets or more if some cars thru and ATL <> JAX only 1 set and ATL <> Florida may require 2 or maybe 3 train sets.
 
Instead of figuring out all kinds of connections to long-distance routes for these parts of the southeast, why not figure out regional routes that provide good service to the area and can compete with driving? I would think that a New Orleans to Mobile corridor is a good start. I hope they're planning multiple trains per day between the two cities. There are probably a number of regional routes that could radiate from Atlanta, but they'll really need to get a better station in Atlanta. Daily New Orleans to Houston Service, and more than one train a day would also be a good idea, as well as a regional/commuter line between New Orleans and Baton Rouge. I think the New Orleans - Jacksonville route is totally impractical, mainly because of inadequate rail infrastructure east of Mobile (unless somebody with very deep pockets and the stomach to fight Florida NIMBYs wants to build a totally new railroad line between Mobile and Pensacola.)
 
George Harris said:
The killer for the restoration of the Gulf Coast is run time. Reality check, New Orleans to Jacksonville:
Highway: 546 miles, 8 hours of driving
Old Gulf Wind Schedule: 613 miles, 15 hours.
Click to expand...

Reality check: to drive it in 8 hours would require an average speed of over 68 mph and exactly no stops for gas, food or bathroom breaks. Plus a HUGE gas tank full when you started. This is ludicrous.
 
west point said:
As a start Amtrak could route passengers on the Crescent to ATL. Then a new train to JAX to connect to one of the silvers. ATL - JAX ~350 new rail miles. ATL - NOL ~522 rail miles New Orleans - JAX ~616 rail miles and Mobile - JAX ~470 rail miles. Just ~ 255 rail miles farther by way of ATL.

So Amtrak could set NOL / and beyond - JAX fares as if direct. This would mean fewer new rail miles and serve a much greater potential market. However The revised Crescent schedule is a real impediment to operate this connecting route. Would need to return to old schedule. This routing would help fill the Crescent's low passenger numbers NOL - ATL.
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If you're going to run a new train ATL-JAX, you should probably run that train through to either ORL or MIA (ORL being an inherently bigger market than JAX because of a certain mouse).
 

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