Mailliw
OBS Chief
How about blackout shades instead of curtains? My dream sleeping accommodations would able to be as dark as a coal mine even at high noon.
What features are important in a sleeper
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Lots of great ideas here.
In addition to what has already been said, what about media streaming to personal devices like the airlines have?
In addition to what has already been said, what about media streaming to personal devices like the airlines have?
I do want to give kudos to Amtrak for their basic Viewliner architecture. I think it is a very successful design as is:
Lots of big windows everywhere.
Decent storage.
Two reclining window seats with folding table.
Decent size beds.
The many details have been discussed above and the Viewliner II has made a few improvements like the water pressure and number and placement of outlets. I do think one thing that really needs to be done is the addition of a door lock.
Someone above mentioned that the roomettes should be a bit larger. That would be great but I think the lacking is in the width which would be impossible to extend. My wife and I have taken the Viewliner roomette many times and it is just too tight for two people. I thought that when they removed the toilet it would open up the floorspace. Remove the toilet and add fold down steps and remove the toilet paper cabinet opposite. That is why the room was difficult for us since two people can't stand up at the same time and the contortion moves necessary and tripping around the room was getting bothersome. Open up the floor area as much as possible and the room will seem a little bigger and just a bit more comfortable.
Lots of big windows everywhere.
Decent storage.
Two reclining window seats with folding table.
Decent size beds.
The many details have been discussed above and the Viewliner II has made a few improvements like the water pressure and number and placement of outlets. I do think one thing that really needs to be done is the addition of a door lock.
Someone above mentioned that the roomettes should be a bit larger. That would be great but I think the lacking is in the width which would be impossible to extend. My wife and I have taken the Viewliner roomette many times and it is just too tight for two people. I thought that when they removed the toilet it would open up the floorspace. Remove the toilet and add fold down steps and remove the toilet paper cabinet opposite. That is why the room was difficult for us since two people can't stand up at the same time and the contortion moves necessary and tripping around the room was getting bothersome. Open up the floor area as much as possible and the room will seem a little bigger and just a bit more comfortable.
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There actually is one way to make a roomette wider. Replace the aisle wall with a heavy curtain like in the old Sections. Only got to ride like this once on the Atlantic before it was discontinued. The curtain gave you enough flexibility so that you could stand in the aisle when you dressed/undressed while maintaining your privacy. The beds were actually wider than today's roomette so two people could use them. The Section could hold up to four with the lower bed costing more than the upper. You could buy the entire section for yourself if you wanted to. Don't know how well this would be accepted nowadays.
They still have them on the Canadian. Most comfortable bed I've ever slept in on a Train!
joelkfla
Engineer
Then you'd have an open section, not a private room.
Full-height ceilings as in Viewliners. Standard single beds rather than narrow; Pullman roomettes (always for one person) had them, first with a zippered curtain outside the door so you could stand in the doorway to raise the bed into the wall when using the toilet, later with a narrower section of the bed toward its far end so that it accommodated that without needing to be raised. More space than mere inches between the lower berth and the wall with sink in bedrooms. Solid construction like Pullman (in a Superliner upper berth I had a squeaky bed and the ceiling was so close I could reach up and push it to halt the squeak, but not while sleeping). Real chairs in bedrooms. I suppose the little place (accessible from the aisle as well as your room) to put shoes for shining during the night (by the Pullman porter) are forever gone.
Maglev
Conductor
For me, the width of the bed is very important. I like that the lower berth in a Bedroom (at 3' 4" wide) is big enough for me to at least visit my wife. But I think that even the lower berth in an open section, at 3' 7" wide, is not big enough for me to comfortably sleep with my wife.
I have selected a Family Bedroom for my next trip, which will be me alone (Bedrooms were too expensive at $1,500 each way; Family Bedroom was $800 and Roomettes were $600). We have a king bed at home, and I am accustomed to spreading out when I sleep. I find that in a Roomette (with a mattress width of 2' 4"), part of me is always against the wall.
I dream of someday going with my wife in Prestige Class across Canada, which I think has a bed as wide as a queen bed (60" wide).
I have selected a Family Bedroom for my next trip, which will be me alone (Bedrooms were too expensive at $1,500 each way; Family Bedroom was $800 and Roomettes were $600). We have a king bed at home, and I am accustomed to spreading out when I sleep. I find that in a Roomette (with a mattress width of 2' 4"), part of me is always against the wall.
I dream of someday going with my wife in Prestige Class across Canada, which I think has a bed as wide as a queen bed (60" wide).
Qapla
Engineer
For the record .. I am over 40 by many years - and I already do without a newspaper and would not need/want one on the train either.
My wife recently quit her job working for a newspaper. She worked there for 17+ years and has experienced the decline of the newspaper industry first-hand.
If the aisle only ran down one side switching sides halfway down you could make the rooms and the hallway wider. Too much emphasis is put on squeezing out maximum dollar of revenue per square inch of the car to give real value for the price charged ... it's just that people have gotten used to the cramped roomettes so they think it is tolerable.
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Now you're talking a bedroom taking up the space of two roomettes and costing twice as much.
Mailliw
OBS Chief
Open sections could be a viable mid-tier option; they're basically the North American equivalent of couchettes. A modern version could have amenities like outlets and a window for the upper berth. I think you could fit 32-36 berths in while still leaving space for an ADA bedroom.
joelkfla
Engineer
But that's a whole different discussion, which has also been had with the yea and nay camps set firm in their opinions -- like the roomette with/without toilet question.
Qapla
Engineer
That need not be the case. There is more to offering a good sleeping car experience than maxing out the number of passengers that can fit in the limited space ... after all, the question in the OP was
so I see no reason I can't express my opinion even if it doesn't maximize profit per square inch.
Think about it this way (bear with me while I get there), in a plane all the meals are served from a very small galley and delivered to the seats. There is no dining room or self-serve.
On a train many who take a LD train mention how they like to ride in the observation car or sit in the dining room. Well, these cars are NOT revenue producing cars ... why have them on the train? It would be entirely possible to design/build a car that could be placed between the sleepers and coach that could serve sleeper meals that are delivered to the sleepers and serve "café" food to the coach ... since it could actually be done by only using half the car, instead of putting in non-revenue producing tables for people to eat at, let the sleeper passengers eat in their room and let the coach passengers eat at their seats and build half of the galley car with coach seats ... and while we're at it, why not make the coach seats narrow enough to add a middle seat on each side - like airlines do.
This way, you are gaining square-inch revenue from the "wasted space" taken up by the lounge/observation/ cars that do not have revenue producing seats in them and remove any cars that do not directly produce revenue in the way of seats. If you want the baggage car(s), charge for checked baggage like the airlines do - that way, even the baggage car is revenue producing.
OR
Give people more space, better service, clean trains, efficient and gracious employees - and quit jacking the prices ... Amtrak is Gov't owned and should be operated like a Gov't service, like the Interstate Highway system ... no one expects for the highways to make a profit. That doesn't mean Amtrak should offer free rides, but they should be affordable like car tags are - think about it, if we all had to pay a "profit" rate for our tags, way less people would drive cars because tags would cost too much.
Have you ever been in a sleeper car?
Qapla
Engineer
Yes, I have
Philly Amtrak Fan
Engineer
How about affordability?
Two comments:
First, newspapers have considerable value when you're in the middle of nowhere on a Western route with no cell service to read online.
Secondly, my wish is simply for two beds on the same level within the space, such as a VIA drawing room/large bedroom for 2 affords. Currently the best Amtrak alternative for a senior couple is two roomettes across the hall.
First, newspapers have considerable value when you're in the middle of nowhere on a Western route with no cell service to read online.
Secondly, my wish is simply for two beds on the same level within the space, such as a VIA drawing room/large bedroom for 2 affords. Currently the best Amtrak alternative for a senior couple is two roomettes across the hall.
Maglev
Conductor
If the berths were oriented perpendicular to the direction of travel, the Roomettes could be wider (or conceivably narrower) than they are now and still achieve a similar density to what we have now.
The best alternative on Amtrak is a Bedroom Suite, which is preferable to a drawing room because the lower berths are wider and you get two great windows in addition to two bathrooms.
If cost is no object.
private toilet; comfortable bed (I agree that the beds on the Canadian are the best I have experienced on a train); reasonably quiet room
Roomette size and wider hallways: Slightly larger roomette and wider hallways are completely incompatible.
Roomettes could be lengthened slightly by reducing the number of them, but I think that would be a bad idea. They could not be made wider.
Windows: The windows are plenty large horizontally and the double-windows (vertically) in Viewliners work fine. There is significantly less height in a Superliner and adding a second row of windows on each floor for the upper bunks or extending the windows vertically would be a major structural change, at least on the lower level. The windows on the upper level of the Superliner lounges goes all the way almost to the middle of the roof, so it should be possible to extend the windows on the SL upper level 10 to 20 inches (right where the roof starts to curve) which might be enough for the upper beds on the upper level. Can't go past that without introducing serious problems with the window curtains, which are essential in a sleeper. The lower level, not so much. A complete redesign using modern materials, like carbon composites or titanium, might be strong enough to pass the safety requirements while providing bigger windows and less space wasted for structure, but would be incredibly expensive.
Baggage space: Including a baggage car in every LD train, with baggage service at all stations, accessible to the on-board services staff (so passengers could request access to their luggage in mid-trip) would just be a matter of hiring enough people; no physical changes would be needed to the cars. But that would be expensive. I don't think they can allow passengers to access the baggage cars for safety and liability reasons, but maybe they could partition off the last 10 feet and put baggage shelves there, like the storage shelves on the lower level of the Superliners, so passengers could deal with their own non-checked baggage.
WiFi: I think if all goes well, SpaceX should have mobile high-bandwidth Internet available, at a reasonable cost, with a built-in WiFi or any cheap WiFi base station should work fine, for a few hundred dollars per month per unit. I think the market is cruise ships and maybe airplanes, but there is no reason a base station that works on either wouldn't work fine on a train. The biggest cost would be installation, not the hardware costs or the monthly fees. (Stationary base stations are already available and I have some friends who have them. The work great when there is a satellite in view, but drop out occasionally when there are none. Once SpaceX gets sufficient satellites in orbit, that problem will go away.) There are other providers (OneWeb, Bezos/Amazon, etc.), but they aren't as far along. Anyway, decent WiFi will be a total no-brainer in a few years, so I wouldn't worry about it.
I think the other items in your list are practical and good ideas.
Mailliw
OBS Chief
Affordability is extremely important and the only realistic way to accomplish that is with a design that maximizes the number of revenue berths. Hence open sections, couchettes, Slumbercoaches, etc.
Qapla
Engineer
The OP asked "what features are important to you in a sleeping car?" - He never said they had to be things that did not currently exist. I never said they needed to make the windows in a viewliner larger, I just said large windows were important to me ... I actually like the windows in the viewliner, I just wish they were much, much cleaner all the time.
As for some of the other things on my list, these are things "I" would like, I never said they should or could be done, especially with today's attitude of passenger rail in the US by those in charge.
The things on my list are no more or less unreasonable that the items on some of the other lists .... after all, in keeping with the OP - they are all "wants"
Since I don't drink coffee or alcohol (by choice not religious obligation) I could say those that want 24 hour access to coffee or free drinks with each meal are unreasonable ... but, if that is what some "want" it is fine with me for them to include it as an answer to the OP question
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west point
Engineer
IMO -- There is not enough sleeper cars to meet all sleeper demand at this moment in time. Amtrak is not using all its equipment available ( V-2s on single level trains ). When the demand for sleeper space is fully met then any new sleepers might be modify from current configurations.
Amtrak has stated it only wants one configuration for V- sleepers. These proposals are going nowhere as it means more spare parts for these one offs. these proposals IMO are not going to happen for at least 10 years. It is time for us to get behind more sleepers in the present configurations. Siemens just got another order for more European sleepers for Night Jet. configurations same for all 33 =7 car sets.
But I'll say nothing is impossible..
Amtrak has stated it only wants one configuration for V- sleepers. These proposals are going nowhere as it means more spare parts for these one offs. these proposals IMO are not going to happen for at least 10 years. It is time for us to get behind more sleepers in the present configurations. Siemens just got another order for more European sleepers for Night Jet. configurations same for all 33 =7 car sets.
But I'll say nothing is impossible..
