Amtrak's FY 2022-2027 Service and Asset Line Plans

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joelkfla

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joelkfla said:
Haven't seen this posted here yet. PDF properties say it was created on 4/3/22.

Starting on page 128, it says they expect to issue a contract for LD fleet replacement within 5 years, with deliveries to be starting by the end of the decade and continuing into the 2030's.

https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...g/Amtrak-Service-Asset-Line-Plans-FY22-27.pdf
The links to this and other reports are on this page.
Click to expand...

Read through it yesterday. Notably they’re including replacement of SL2 and VL1 in this - so the only current model going forward would be VL2s.
 
5 years to place an order for LD equipment seems a bit like kicking the can down the road, especially considering the generosity of the current congress. If there’s truly a refresh of the Superliner fleet taking place maybe that timeframe is appropriate. 🤷‍♂️

For now forget the refresh and just get cars serviced and on the tracks…


I also found these two paragraphs highlighting the NEC and highlighting the long distance trains interesting. One child seems to be more popular than the other. It can almost be read as Congress wants long distance trains so we’re running them but this is what it costs

NEC
“Recovering from the worst disruption to the transportation industry in modern history, Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor is preparing for the most transformative decade in its history. Train travel is well-positioned not only to weather
the current storm, but to emerge as the premier transportation mode choice along the NEC in the 2022-2027 timeframe and beyond.”

Long distance

“Because of its national reach, Congress plays a pivotal role in support of the Long-Distance network. In FY 2020, the Amtrak National Network received $1.826 billion in federal support. Of this amount, $645
million was required to support the operation of Long-Distance routes.”


What exactly is the National Network 1.8B versus the long distance routes 645M? I know we use Network and Long distance interchangeably quite a bit.
 
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It isn’t really true to say they are waiting five years. Rather it says this:

Amtrak anticipates the award of a contract, and for new railcar construction to be well underway, by the end of the five-year horizon of these Service and Asset Line Plans. That implies an award earlier than five years. Based on Chestler’s remarks at the RPA meeting it sounds like somewhere around FY24 is the goal for a contract award.
 
Under the topic "Build for the Future: Fleet Planning and Acquisition", for long distance: "Redesigning train consists to match passenger demand, create operating efficiencies, and reduce capital needs.

Sounds like downsizing consists to me.

When on the subject of Viewliner-II, it goes on about sleeper cars, nothing about diners.
 
Here's another big change:

The next major enhancement on Amtrak. com and the Amtrak app, slated for release in 2022, expands on the existing search result experience by presenting a seven-day calendar of available fares: those of the requested date as well as the lowest fare up to three days prior and three days forward. In addition to offering customers more— and potentially lower—fare options with a single search, this solution will provide a better path for long distance customers to find available travel dates on trains operating less than daily.

Assuming this happens on schedule, this will be wonderful to have as an option - lots of airlines already offer this and it's nice to be able to adjust to a cheaper day if my plans are a bit flexible.
 
jebr said:
Here's another big change:

The next major enhancement on Amtrak. com and the Amtrak app, slated for release in 2022, expands on the existing search result experience by presenting a seven-day calendar of available fares: those of the requested date as well as the lowest fare up to three days prior and three days forward. In addition to offering customers more— and potentially lower—fare options with a single search, this solution will provide a better path for long distance customers to find available travel dates on trains operating less than daily.

Assuming this happens on schedule, this will be wonderful to have as an option - lots of airlines already offer this and it's nice to be able to adjust to a cheaper day if my plans are a bit flexible.
Click to expand...
Sounds great, but I'll believe it when I see it.
 
Hope the less than daily is just the Sunset and Cardinal by then. At the minimum we can assume those two won’t be going daily anytime soon despite the rumblings that it might happen eventually.

Will we see more downsized trains like the Eagle? Sounds like it’s a possibility under their plans. “Reduce capital needs”, so far has meant cut cut cut.
 
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Amtrak25 said:
Under the topic "Build for the Future: Fleet Planning and Acquisition", for long distance: "Redesigning train consists to match passenger demand, create operating efficiencies, and reduce capital needs. Sounds like downsizing consists to me. When on the subject of Viewliner-II, it goes on about sleeper cars, nothing about diners.
Click to expand...
The downsizing already happened, and demand is outstripping supply, so if anything it should mean that trains need to get longer. Perhaps these statements mean more run-through operations for improved utilization. If hosts can be held to a higher scheduling standard run-throughs may not be as big of a problem as they were in the past. Seems like a big “if” though.
 
There is an item about overhauls for stored Superliner, Amfleet, and Viewliner equipment and trying to get through that backlog by FY23.. Baggage and food service cars are awaiting decision making on checked baggage, Amtrak express, and food service format by train which is in the equipment section somewhere. What this tells me is all is on hold for stored bag and diners until they decide whether they want to resume Amtrak express or even continue with checked baggage and what the food service formats will be on the trains that currently don't have traditional dining. I notice that any mention of flexible dining has been cleaned from the five year plans - sounds like they are basically back at the drawing board as far as food service. Another interesting note in there is they working on On Board Entertainment options like what the airlines offer. They are supposedly preparing prototypes this FY for OBE which will begin with the long distance trains. The Auto Train would probably be an ideal place to commence an OBE proto-type.
 
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As for food service the Authorization Bill has created a Food Service Committee which is to start its work in May and produce a recommendation in short order that Amtrak is more or less bound to follow if they wish to receive a subsidy check from the FRA, as to what food service should look like. RPA is one of the designated members of the Committee, so we should know pretty quickly where that is going.

I am not sure what the decision making process is for baggage service.

The decision making process for the future of LD service has been removed from Amtrak and placed in the hands of Federal DOT with FRA as the designated agency that has to come up with a recommendation. This one needs to be watched closely because FRA is often prone to employ basically incompetent consultants when they are over their heads.
 
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lordsigma said:
Amtrak anticipates the award of a contract, and for new railcar construction to be well underway, by the end of the five-year horizon of these Service and Asset Line Plans. That implies an award earlier than five years. Based on Chestler’s remarks at the RPA meeting it sounds like somewhere around FY24 is the goal for a contract award.
Click to expand...

Which incidentally puts them right into Via Rail's timeframe for long distance equipment replacement, as well! Very much coincidence, but likely potentially beneficial for all involved: the bidder (s), Amtrak and Via.
 
Amtrak25 said:
Goes to show Congress no longer trusts Amtrak management with big decisions, and goes over their heads, delegating to FRA to direct Amtrak what to do.
Click to expand...
Actually RPA had a hand in that coming out that way. In the background they don't trust Amtrak (in the gentle care of Gardner) on LD trains either.
 
Amtrakfflyer said:
5 years to place an order for LD equipment seems a bit like kicking the can down the road, especially considering the generosity of the current congress. If there’s truly a refresh of the Superliner fleet taking place maybe that timeframe is appropriate. 🤷‍♂️

For now forget the refresh and just get cars serviced and on the tracks…


I also found these two paragraphs highlighting the NEC and highlighting the long distance trains interesting. One child seems to be more popular than the other. It can almost be read as Congress wants long distance trains so we’re running them but this is what it costs

NEC
“Recovering from the worst disruption to the transportation industry in modern history, Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor is preparing for the most transformative decade in its history. Train travel is well-positioned not only to weather
the current storm, but to emerge as the premier transportation mode choice along the NEC in the 2022-2027 timeframe and beyond.”

Long distance

“Because of its national reach, Congress plays a pivotal role in support of the Long-Distance network. In FY 2020, the Amtrak National Network received $1.826 billion in federal support. Of this amount, $645
million was required to support the operation of Long-Distance routes.”


What exactly is the National Network 1.8B versus the long distance routes 645M? I know we use Network and Long distance interchangeably quite a bit.
Click to expand...

"National Network" includes the myriad state-supported trains.

And the numbers are ********. Complete ********. Practically of it is overhead, and it's all required to run one single train anywhere.
 
lordsigma said:
Another interesting note in there is they working on On Board Entertainment options like what the airlines offer. They are supposedly preparing prototypes this FY for OBE which will begin with the long distance trains. The Auto Train would probably be an ideal place to commence an OBE proto-type.
Click to expand...
Well, that's stupid. Everyone uses their own devices now. Amtrak needs to get rid of these relics from the 1950s and get someone living in, oh, the 1990s at least
 
neroden said:
Well, that's stupid. Everyone uses their own devices now. Amtrak needs to get rid of these relics from the 1950s and get someone living in, oh, the 1990s at least
Click to expand...
Yes and No. I could see it in Coach. A lot of folks traveling in Coach might not have unlimited data plans. Also - onboard entertainment systems work regardless of the cellular signal.

Would I use OBE? Nope. But for some folks it might be attractive
 
jis said:
Actually RPA had a hand in that coming out that way. In the background they don't trust Amtrak (in the gentle care of Gardner) on LD trains either.
Click to expand...

Then consider that Congress decided the Amtrak CEO, not the Amtrak President, shall sit as an ex-officio member on the Amtrak Board. IOW, they wanted Flynn, not Gardner there. Then Flynn retires, the two postions get re-combined, and Gardner is again Peter Principled and heads back to the Board, not that he left for very long in the first place, if at all. So it seems to me Anthony Coscia's Board has again undermined the will of Congress.
 
TheMalahat said:
Which incidentally puts them right into Via Rail's timeframe for long distance equipment replacement, as well! Very much coincidence, but likely potentially beneficial for all involved: the bidder (s), Amtrak and Via.
Click to expand...
OTOH, if both Amtrak & VIA are looking for equipment at the same time, & both like Siemens (for example), it might extend the delivery time for one or both buyers.
 
IndyLions said:
Yes and No. I could see it in Coach. A lot of folks traveling in Coach might not have unlimited data plans. Also - onboard entertainment systems work regardless of the cellular signal.

Would I use OBE? Nope. But for some folks it might be attractive
Click to expand...
Some OBE systems are designed to provide the content, but not the device. OBE does not always mean screens or seat back. Some are optimized for "bring your own device" scenarios.
 
PVD said:
Some OBE systems are designed to provide the content, but not the device. OBE does not always mean screens or seat back. Some are optimized for "bring your own device" scenarios.
Click to expand...
Exactly this is what they are proposing and is what most airlines are doing now in new setups. You BYOD - the on board WiFi has content that you can access on your device without streaming over the net. The content works regardless of signal downstream and can reduce ground to train bandwidth usage if customers use it. This would do well on a route like the auto train. It appears they are going to be going to a totally new provider for the WiFi on the LD trains as well as expanding it to the western trains and this is likely going to be done as part of that.
 
Well, it is an interesting debate in the airline industry between the BYOD and seatback groups. Some airlines even do both. but it certainly is important from a band width conservation standpoint either way. Somehow, I don't see Amtrak maintenance for seatback devices as ideal.
 
neroden said:
Well, that's stupid. Everyone uses their own devices now. Amtrak needs to get rid of these relics from the 1950s and get someone living in, oh, the 1990s at least
Click to expand...

I think it's perfectly reasonable for Amtrak to offer on-board entertainment via personal devices - and certainly not a relic of the past. Heck, I'd argue that one of Delta's selling points for some people is that almost all of their planes still have seat-back entertainment options - and that's part of their image to command a bit more "premium" feel and perhaps a bit of additional revenue.

I don't think Amtrak should go seatback-style, if only because I have zero confidence that Amtrak would be able to maintain it properly. However, having a reasonable amount of streaming entertainment available via the on-board wifi would be helpful and has some advantages. Particularly on the western trains, having options available that are stored on-board and don't require a constant robust link to the outside world could be a selling point - "we have plenty of shows available no matter where you are on the rails." It's not strictly necessary, but considering even Greyhound, Megabus, and Flixbus advertise it as an option (even though in my experiences it doesn't actually work or exist) I think it's something that people want and look a bit favorably on if it exists.
 

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