North River Tunnel speed limit increase

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Touchdowntom9

Service Attendant
AU Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2022
Messages
174
Location
NYC
Recently learned the north river tunnels are limited to 60mph. As part of the tunnel renovation, is increasing that speed limit to something closer to 90mph possible? Would they be able to add some small but powerful fans to reduce the blockage ratio? I’m asking because that in conjunction with the new portal north bridge would let trains to fly out of NYP at 90-100mph and not slow down until hitting NWK Penn, and could drive some major time saving compared to today’s trains.
 
Leaving NYP all trains are limited to slow speeds (20?) until rear of train has cleared all puzzle switches. Then you have acceleration down hill. Note Amtrak added high density signaling in the tunnel. Approaching NYP trains have to slow to enter the slow section.

Have no idea what speed limits in the new bores.
 
Touchdowntom9 said:
Recently learned the north river tunnels are limited to 60mph. As part of the tunnel renovation, is increasing that speed limit to something closer to 90mph possible? Would they be able to add some small but powerful fans to reduce the blockage ratio? I’m asking because that in conjunction with the new portal north bridge would let trains to fly out of NYP at 90-100mph and not slow down until hitting NWK Penn, and could drive some major time saving compared to today’s trains.
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I don't see the speed limits under the Hudson as slowing things down. As other have mentioned there are many factors involved and anyway it's usually only a 15 - 20 minute ride.
 
jis said:
Possible but not desirable because it would reduce throughput, and it is throughput that is at premium and not the saved minute or two.
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Fair point, but once the new tunnels are also complete, wouldn't the bottleneck that causes the throughput to be at such a premium no longer be the tunnels? The NEC is substantial but wouldnt other bottlenecks appear the moment NJT and Amtrak tried running 48 trains an hour each way down the NEC That could serve as the potential Acela/Amtrak designated tunnel and get them out of NY faster. I take NJT from PJ to NYP a few times a week, and it seems there are semi frequent bottlenecks that occur between PJ and EWR/NWP which makes me think running 48 trains an hour is not feasible but could be wrong.
 
The first thing that will happen after the new tunnels are commissioned is that the old tunnels will be taken out of service for repair. So eventually after they return into service the capacity crunch will be relieved and speed may be increased some. But it will still be a dense signaled tunnel, and at least inbound the bottleneck at A interlocking won’t go away. So things might improve a bit.
 
jis said:
The first thing that will happen after the new tunnels are commissioned is that the old tunnels will be taken out of service for repair. So eventually after they return into service the capacity crunch will be relieved and speed may be increased some. But it will still be a dense signaled tunnel, and at least inbound the bottleneck at A interlocking won’t go away. So things might improve a bit.
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What’s the bottleneck at A interlocking? Did some googling and it pulls a ton of results from the 2017 track work project from the ‘summer of hell’, so I would have assumed it had been solved now but I guess you’re saying it’s still very much a bottleneck?
 
Touchdowntom9 said:
What’s the bottleneck at A interlocking? Did some googling and it pulls a ton of results from the 2017 track work project from the ‘summer of hell’, so I would have assumed it had been solved now but I guess you’re saying it’s still very much a bottleneck?
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That was a basic state of good repair exercise. None of the conflicting routes through A that cause the congestion were addressed, nor could they be addressed realistically. That will have to await the new tunnels which could potentially move many of those to the other side of the river
 
west point said:
Leaving NYP all trains are limited to slow speeds (20?) until rear of train has cleared all puzzle switches. Then you have acceleration down hill. Note Amtrak added high density signaling in the tunnel. Approaching NYP trains have to slow to enter the slow section.

Have no idea what speed limits in the new bores.
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15 mph in Penn Station as well as A, KN, C, & JO.

The signal rules in question are 562. Meaning no wayside signals except for Home Signals, follow your cab signals.
Amtrak25 said:
Tight headways with no slack. It is all the way between Newark Penn and Manhattan. A 4 track railroad converges to 2 tracks and then the M&E trains are thrown in at Kearny.
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This is the answer. Lots of traffic and little room to wiggle.
 
Amtrak25 said:
Tight headways with no slack. It is all the way between Newark Penn and Manhattan. A 4 track railroad converges to 2 tracks and then the M&E trains are thrown in at Kearny.
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Hopefully the gateway project resolves this but that project cost is disgusting. Is this congestion not something that could be solved by upgrading the signal system? I know PTC is being used on the NEC but I also keep hearing about how tight CBTC let’s the MTA run their trains between each other
 

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