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  1. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    So what? Their website strongly suggests that the preference is to stop at some kind of a business. And if they really thought they could get away with an equal amount of patronage stopping along the side of a road (such as the exit from an Interstate Highway), why did they not do that? By...
  2. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    That's not the point. The point is that the railroads will certainly ask for infrastructure to accommodate existing traffic and projected growth. No one knows the specific rate of domestic coal demand decline, and that of export demand is even more difficult to predict. Therefore, the traffic...
  3. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    No, it's not true that coal is an "irrelevance." It is very relevant because the trains still run. And as long as they do, MRL and BNSF will demand that available capacity includes the reality that these trains continue to operate. Especially since there is zero indication that proponents of...
  4. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    Nope: Nothing to do with CP in Minneapolis, and the former Milwaukee Road main line through the city is truncated. Since 1978, Amtrak trains westward from St. Paul leave CP (ex-MILW/Soo) track at Merriam Park in St. Paul, and use the Minnesota Commercial Railroad past the Midway Amtrak Station...
  5. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    Where 60 MPH is allowed now, was pretty much the case in 1979. There are numerous areas of speed restrictions, and the Missoula-to-Paradise segment is especially problematic: There are two routes, and both have issues and neither is fast. All in all, the whole railroad is in good shape, but...
  6. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    Perhaps. But we haven't had a long distance train added in decades. Nor have we seen such a huge amount of funding for Amtrak. So anything that has happened in the past is not relevant to this time. I doubt that this is that much of a concern among voters. And sure, you can do the service...
  7. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    The North Coast Hiawatha name was first used with the timetable issued November 14, 1971. It was a combination of the North Coast Limited name and the Hiawatha, a nod to the fact the the train used the Milwaukee Road from Chicago to St. Paul. Same for "San Francisco Zephyr" between Chicago...
  8. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    Obviously, you have not even availed yourself to the information on this that is available online. The 2009 North Coast Hiawatha study and the BSPRA study both indicate the route to be via Staples and Yakima. Due to high traffic and limited ability to add trackage on route via Wenatchee...
  9. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    Well, you missed my point, which was simply that we get more bang for the buck adding service on existing infrastructure, and that states with a record of long term support for passenger trains should be rewarded in favor of those who have chosen to do nothing. And frankly, I'm not...
  10. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    The point is that the cost of "planet alignment" for a North Coast Hiawatha would be much higher than operating the Sunset and Cardinal daily. The whole Amtrak long distance system is fragile. It's much more cost effective to add service on existing routes than to spend a billion on a new one...
  11. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    This was actually done twice (1977 Empire Builder/North Coast Hiawatha, and 1995 Empire Builder/Pioneer), and it didn't work. In 1995 due to budget restraints, the Empire Builder was operated four days per week and the Pioneer three. When the Empire Builder's frequency was cut by 43%, its...
  12. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    Montana's "other senator" is Daines. Rosendale is Montana's lone representative in House. Regardless, your appraisal of him is correct.
  13. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    On the Empire Builder route, you omitted DVL (Devils Lake), OLF (Wolf Point), GGW (Glasgow), and HVR (Havre). All Essential Air Service locations to the tune of several million dollars annually in subsidy at each location. Also, Columbus, Wisconsin is the stop for Madison which has commercial...
  14. M

    Montana Rail Authority calling for Amtrak route study

    The real interesting thing about the BSPRA wanting a study for the North Coast Hiawatha is that they already commissioned one earlier this year, performed by the Rail Passengers Association...
  15. M

    What if the Milwaukee Road didn't de-energize the Pacific Extension

    No, I actually agree with you, Fred. Freight railroading in general was between the proverbial rock and proverbial hard place. Such antics are indeed debatable because the exact outcome is not known if a different course was taken. That's why I believe it's best to avoid all the what-ifs...
  16. M

    What if the Milwaukee Road didn't de-energize the Pacific Extension

    The Milwaukee went to Kansas City, not St. Louis. And they got to Louisville as a condition of the L&N taking over the Monon. By 1969, the L&N already had acquired their part (the MP got the Thebes bridge part) of the C&EI and had access to Chicago. The main purpose of getting trackage rights...
  17. M

    What if the Milwaukee Road didn't de-energize the Pacific Extension

    Fred: As you believe that every railroad everywhere should be rebuilt, this was inevitable.
  18. M

    What if the Milwaukee Road didn't de-energize the Pacific Extension

    No way? Really? It happened, didn’t it? (Probably your single – among so many – reality-free statement!) As for the “what if” of BNSF buying the MILW west of Terry “if still intact.” Never. Its worn out infrastructure notwithstanding, the line still didn’t have CTC, hot box detectors...
  19. M

    What if the Milwaukee Road didn't de-energize the Pacific Extension

    Fact check: President and CEO: Louis Menk, off the NP Vice President and later CEO: Norman Lorentzen, off the NP President, Resources Division, C. Robert Binger off the NP The reality is that top management was shared by the GN and NP and other positions from all the predecessor roads. While...
  20. M

    What if the Milwaukee Road didn't de-energize the Pacific Extension

    I don’t agree on other’s speculation. We have no idea about a “nationalized operation” or anything else that hasn’t actually happened. But in the realm of reality and privately-run railroads, we know that superior operating characteristic (grade, curvature, on-line business, supporting routes...
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