16 year old denied passage

[me_little_me]

This sort of reminds me of the thread a few weeks ago when a woman (family?) was put of the train and arrested in Ashland, VA. Trouble is, we are only hearing one side of the story. Worse, for many of us, this story seems plausible because of inconsistent service standards we have observed riding the rails so claims like this fit into a pre-existing narrative, even when not true. Frankly, if I worked for Amtrak I'd be extremely frustrated at the bad apples who while few in number carry a disproportionately negative influence in how people see my job and my work product.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The huge variation in the quality of service on Amtrak is one of its worst points. Wonderful employees working along side a few idiots and incompetents who seem to continuously provide bad service yet remain. Far more variation than in almost any comparable service-oriented travel industry. Airlines have much better control as do restaurants and hotels. Actions that make the company look bad are less tolerated or the public makes its feelings known by not patronizing the company or by demanding that congress "do something". In the case of airlines, it is the government's TSA and the generally (but equally) bad conditions of flying, not the huge difference in individual employees that we have come to hate.

If Amtrak was not already dealing with continuing years of congress wanting to get rid of it because it loses money, they would be hearing from congress because of complaints of the public. I think Amtrak is only saved from that problem because of the excellent response of its customer service which in most cases generously compensates the aggrieved. Unfortunately, this will be a continuing problem because the compensation doesn't seem to result in noticeable change in service quality from those that fail to meet Amtrak standards.

You are also right about "one side of the story" but many, if not all of us who have frequently ridden Amtrak have noticed this huge gap between the competent, quality service most provide and its intolerable evil cousin so it is all to easy to believe any story as having some if not conclusive "proof" of reasonableness.

 

[Karl1459]

Seems to me, if the facts are as stated (the key point is the young man WAS 16)

a. He had a valid ticket.

b. Amtrak had a contract to take him from point a to point b on that day.

c. Amtrak refused to honor its contract for NO VALID REASON.

d. Amtrak should refund the full ticket price AND pay reasonable costs for alternate transportation AND any reasonable incidental expenses.

Contact customer service. Politely state somthing on the line of "Houston, we have a problem..."

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Seems to me, if the facts are as stated (the key point is the young man WAS 16)

a. He had a valid ticket.

b. Amtrak had a contract to take him from point a to point b on that day.

c. Amtrak refused to honor its contract for NO VALID REASON.

d. Amtrak should refund the full ticket price AND pay reasonable costs for alternate transportation AND any reasonable incidental expenses.

Contact customer service. Politely state somthing on the line of "Houston, we have a problem..."

this ^

If his mom did her Job of reading the rules and she followed them then SHe is NOT at any ! fault

She did not lack planning . The Conductor did .. This is the conductors fault . simple .

Provided he had PROOF of his age !!

I am sorry but a conductor is NOT GOD .. he is there to Run a train and make it SAFE ..

Mr boardman is to me the "God " or whatnot of Amtrak and if his policy is not being followed the why have it in a book .Website Ect ..

what is to say that this conductor might deny Vern Troyor or some Students I know right here that I Swear look 18 but are 25 .

its Simple If a Legal ID says he is 16 then him being denied transport then some one need to pipe up and see where this went wrong .

 

[amtrakwolverine]

well one problem that causes us to doubt each time something like this comes up is the OP never returns to follow up with our questions so we end up dismissing these types of post as a post and run. While none of us doubt this could have happened the OP has not returned to follow up with answers to our questions.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

amtrakwolverine

Yea this is Very true .. The world may never know all the details.

 

[Donctor]

I've seen much worse from Amtrak employees. I've also seen better—though "much" better might be pushing it—from Amtrak employees.

 

[Michele]

Thank you for all of the sage advice. The travel agency refunded the ticket and a later call by me directly to Amtrak helped. The conductor obviously either didn't understand the policy or in his haste to keep the train on schedule, did not even ask to see my son's identification. As for my son's appearance, he is six feet tall and to the casual observer, he would appear to be a college student. As for the question 'why didn't' he just drive down' can be answered by the fact that holds a driver's permit rather than a full license. The entire itenary was designed to allow him to take the train down to see his ailing great grandmother and return driving his grandmother home using her vehicle. After 4 exhausting weeks of caring for her own mother, she was not safe to drive herself home without company and assistance. I honestly feel at this point the conductor was momentarily confused and made the decision that his training instructed him to do. For the record, he was not rude. This has prompted a great deal of discussion between my son and me regarding the fact that despite our family crisis, the conductor made his best judgement, clearly in good faith, and we must deal with the consequences in a mature fashion. I appreciate everyone's advice and Amtrak's apology. Now, who wants to go get my mother?? ( kidding)

 

[The OP]

I am sorry and sympathize with you. This sounds like another case of Amtrak employees being headstrong and unflexible. These few employees do not realize the impact they make on the people they infect/affect. I would bet the OP will never consider riding Amtrak again, let alone how many people she will sour on Amtrak just by relating her story to them.__ . "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance- that priciple is contempt prior to investigation."-Herbert Spencer

The quote sums it up. Read my reply later on in this forum. Further investigation did help and problem was resolved as best as one could expect. I will use your quote in the future as I face problems....contempt prior to investigation really made me think. Thank you.

 

[haolerider]

well one problem that causes us to doubt each time something like this comes up is the OP never returns to follow up with our questions so we end up dismissing these types of post as a post and run. While none of us doubt this could have happened the OP has not returned to follow up with answers to our questions.

Given the family crisis situation involved in this issue, I would hesitate to call this a "post and run", but I do hope the OP returns and gives us a reading on what Amtrak says.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Yes but the OP was claiming the conductor was enforcing a policy that 16 year olds may not travel unaccompanied. So even if he had a driver's license showing 16 it wouldn't have mattered. Allegedly.

I guess that is not what I am reading from the OP. The conductor was claiming that the kid was simply too young. It was the OP that later found out that the break point was 16 after calling Amtrak.

If the conductor was assuming the kid was actually under 16, possibly due to appearance, then yes, showing the conductor a driver's license might have helped.

I am sure that conductors are use to parents lying about kid's ages, and rely more on their judgment. For example, the parent who's attempting to get a 1/2 price ticket for their 14 yo, when the "14 yo" is 6'2" and has a full beard.

 

[A.J.]

it's interesting to note that this isn't a policy that is always enforced. I was on the Vermonter two summers ago when a very young man boarded the train (he looked maybe 14 or 15). he actually asked the conductor for help lifting his bags using the reason that he was only xx age (I have forgotten what age he gave). the conductor questioned him about it and moment he told the kid he shouldn't be on the train, the kid changed his story. the conductor asked those of us sitting nearby what we heard and we all agreed with him. he asked the kid for id which the kid didn't have. the conductor spoke with another conductor. the kid at that point insisted he was of age. in the end, they didn't do anything about it and the kid rode for the rest of the day and annoyed just about everyone in our car.

 

[me_little_me]

This has prompted a great deal of discussion between my son and me regarding the fact that despite our family crisis, the conductor made his best judgement, clearly in good faith, and we must deal with the consequences in a mature fashion. I appreciate everyone's advice and Amtrak's apology. Now, who wants to go get my mother?? ( kidding)

Very nice of you but the conductor failed in his responsibility if he didn't even ask for proof of age before making his decision. Since he denied transport, he would have failed in multiple ways:

1) He did not know Amtrak policy and he is required to know it. That is negligent on his part. Even children as young as 13 can travel unaccompanied under certain circumstancers.

2) He failed to verify his opinion before denying passage. He could have verified it with other conductors or quickly called Amtrak himself.

3) He was NOT "acting in good faith" as he was confronted with someone who begged him to consider the consequences because he failed (1) and (2). He was too lazy to do the right thing.

Amtrak should require that he write a letter of apology to your son for his error and he should be reprimanded and required to pass a test on knowledge of Amtrak's policy.

It is totally unacceptable that any conductor would not clearly know the Amtrak requirements for minors. Amtrak's policy is clearly stated on Amtrak's web site.

 

[RRrich]

It is totally unacceptable that any conductor would not clearly know the Amtrak requirements for minors. Amtrak's policy is clearly stated on Amtrak's web site.

Since the Conductor's alleged actions are so patently wrong, I sure wish I could hear his explanation.

 

[NY Penn]

IMO the 'begging' factor led the conductor to believe that the mother wanted an exception to be made to the rules, which he did not allow.

 

[boxcar479]

I am sorry and sympathize with you. This sounds like another case of Amtrak employees being headstrong and unflexible. These few employees do not realize the impact they make on the people they infect/affect. I would bet the OP will never consider riding Amtrak again, let alone how many people she will sour on Amtrak just by relating her story to them.__ . "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance- that priciple is contempt prior to investigation."-Herbert Spencer

The quote sums it up. Read my reply later on in this forum. Further investigation did help and problem was resolved as best as one could expect. I will use your quote in the future as I face problems....contempt prior to investigation really made me think. Thank you.

You might say I "stumbled" into this quote a little over eight years ago and I have used it to turn my glasses around and look at things from a different point of view ever since then. It really helps when tolerance is an issue :lol:

 

[JayPea]

Thank you for all of the sage advice. The travel agency refunded the ticket and a later call by me directly to Amtrak helped. The conductor obviously either didn't understand the policy or in his haste to keep the train on schedule, did not even ask to see my son's identification. As for my son's appearance, he is six feet tall and to the casual observer, he would appear to be a college student. As for the question 'why didn't' he just drive down' can be answered by the fact that holds a driver's permit rather than a full license. The entire itenary was designed to allow him to take the train down to see his ailing great grandmother and return driving his grandmother home using her vehicle. After 4 exhausting weeks of caring for her own mother, she was not safe to drive herself home without company and assistance. I honestly feel at this point the conductor was momentarily confused and made the decision that his training instructed him to do. For the record, he was not rude. This has prompted a great deal of discussion between my son and me regarding the fact that despite our family crisis, the conductor made his best judgement, clearly in good faith, and we must deal with the consequences in a mature fashion. I appreciate everyone's advice and Amtrak's apology. Now, who wants to go get my mother?? ( kidding)

Michele, I must say your response is remarkable. I've seen it happen time and time again where something happens on Amtrak that is trivial compared to your situation and someone goes ballistic with regards to Amtrak. Here, you were clearly right, and the conductor was clearly wrong, and it created a huge hardship on your part. Yet while understandably upset, you chose the high road and handled it with much more dignity and class than a lot of people, me included, would have. Very commendable! I wish I could handle situations like yours in that manner! If I lived in your area, I'd be happy to get your mother! I will be 52 in a couple of weeks so wouldn't be denied passage! :lol:

 

[IowaGirl]

Michelle - you are a fine example for your son. The world needs more parents like you.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I guess the conductor got confused when the OP begged him, or she could have made a small mistake. What was the OP's son doing?

 

[MARC Rider]

My how things have changed. Back in he late 60s, the Penn Central was offering discount fares to kids under 16 for trips from Philly to New York during school holidays. I rode from Philly to Baltimore by myself when I was 10, and nobody blinked an eye. In fact joyriding on the NEC was a great hobby of mine when I was 14-16.

More recently, I put my 14 year old daughter on a flight from Baltimore to LA with no particular extra red tape, except that they gave me a gate pass so I could walk with her to the gate. I didn't realize that Amtrak has a such a restrictive policy. Fortunately for me, my daughter is now over 18, so if when she wants to travel by herself, she doesn't need us, except that she needs my credit card number because Amtrak no longer accepts debit cards, but that's another rant for another thread.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

they take debit cards that act like a CC. has long as it has the mastercard or visa etc logo they will take it.

 

[ReidTYK]

I too think that Amtrak needs to loosen up thier policy somewhat. I'm 14. Last summer I traveled to Africa on my own, I think I'd be able to make it through the NEC without a problem. I love my independence, and I hate rules like this that restrict it.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

My how things have changed. Back in he late 60s, the Penn Central was offering discount fares to kids under 16 for trips from Philly to New York during school holidays. I rode from Philly to Baltimore by myself when I was 10, and nobody blinked an eye. In fact joyriding on the NEC was a great hobby of mine when I was 14-16.

More recently, I put my 14 year old daughter on a flight from Baltimore to LA with no particular extra red tape, except that they gave me a gate pass so I could walk with her to the gate. I didn't realize that Amtrak has a such a restrictive policy. Fortunately for me, my daughter is now over 18, so if when she wants to travel by herself, she doesn't need us, except that she needs my credit card number because Amtrak no longer accepts debit cards, but that's another rant for another thread.

FLIGHT?! :excl:

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

The F Word .. Ekkkk!

Peter

 

[SarahZ]

they take debit cards that act like a CC. has long as it has the mastercard or visa etc logo they will take it.

Truth. B and I don't have a credit card, so we use our debit cards to reserve tickets. They both have the MC/Visa logo.

 

[jis]

The ticket was printed and the travel date has past.. No refund will be issued. Amtrak sticks to their guns on that.... We can all dream on that. To get a full refund without the 10% charge or a travel voucher you would have to cancel before departure time. I don't know if that includes if the train is late but the ticket wasn't cancelled at all there for the ticket is valid.

Really? Even those most heinous airlines will give a full refund to the original payment instrument for involuntary denial of transport. I doubt that Amtrak will be stupid enough to be worse than airlines in this case.