1st Class Lounges versus Daily Service

[The Metropolitan]

I've seen a few sentiments expressed of how it great it would be if all sleeper trains had a dedicated first class lounge.

Consider this, though:

Operating 1st Class Lounges on the Eb/CZ/SWC/TE/SL/CoNO/CL/LSL/SS/SM/C would equate to the need for roughly 34 additional staffed cars in service at any one time, and likely an additional 6 to 8 in reserve.

34 staffed, in service cars would be more than would be needed to comprise consists and staff to operate daily service on the Cardinal and Sunset Limited, with likely enough left over to stock and staff a new regional service like a Quad Cities Limited. Yes, there's the issue of station staffing, locos and additional slots, but these could likely be worked out.

I guess my discussion topic would be to question just which of the two scenarios would be more likely to fly (I mean, roll), or is likely more needed - extra premium sleeper service or daily service to markets currently lacking it.

Thoughts?

 

[jmbgeg]

I've seen a few sentiments expressed of how it great it would be if all sleeper trains had a dedicated first class lounge.
Consider this, though:

Operating 1st Class Lounges on the Eb/CZ/SWC/TE/SL/CoNO/CL/LSL/SS/SM/C would equate to the need for roughly 34 additional staffed cars in service at any one time, and likely an additional 6 to 8 in reserve.

34 staffed, in service cars would be more than would be needed to comprise consists and staff to operate daily service on the Cardinal and Sunset Limited, with likely enough left over to stock and staff a new regional service like a Quad Cities Limited. Yes, there's the issue of station staffing, locos and additional slots, but these could likely be worked out.

I guess my discussion topic would be to question just which of the two scenarios would be more likely to fly (I mean, roll), or is likely more needed - extra premium sleeper service or daily service to markets currently lacking it.

Thoughts?

The two need not be mutually exclusive. Increasing the Cardinal and Sunset Limited to daily service would carry with it a predictable increase in passenger loads and revenues, albeit not neccessarily 100% of operating and capital costs. Adding PPPC like lounges to more trains would need to increase the sale of sleeper rooms or justify higher sleeper fares on those routes. Fact of that matter is that the addition of first class lounges for additional routes is pure wishlist thinking and unlikely to happen.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Still think the otherwise useless CCCs would make great first class lounges for the LD routes that really need them,

just a little remodel and theyre ready to roll! Several people have mentioned they were on the EB a few times this summer and they have been seen on the TE also in place of the ssl (and in addition to the regular diner/lounge)so Amtrak must have some extras sitting around! Once the remodels and new cars come on line you could also return the CONO to single level service freeing up Superliners for busy trains! If the CONO is extended to Florida this wouldnt work,

but the CCC idea is workable unless they wanna buy some of the old Santa Fe cars that are in Kansas or Illinois?

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Still think the otherwise useless CCCs would make great first class lounges for the LD routes that really need them,just a little remodel and theyre ready to roll! Several people have mentioned they were on the EB a few times this summer and they have been seen on the TE also in place of the ssl (and in addition to the regular diner/lounge)so Amtrak must have some extras sitting around! Once the remodels and new cars come on line you could also return the CONO to single level service freeing up Superliners for busy trains! If the CONO is extended to Florida this wouldnt work,

but the CCC idea is workable unless they wanna buy some of the old Santa Fe cars that are in Kansas or Illinois?

If the "Chicken Bone Express" goes back to single level, I would hope Amtrak would look high and low to scrounge up a dome to put back on her like she had pre-Superliner

And unless they have been moved since last October, there are some Hi Levels in Dallas right next to Fair Park (Cotton Bowl).

 

[Guest]

Still think the otherwise useless CCCs would make great first class lounges for the LD routes that really need them,just a little remodel and theyre ready to roll! Several people have mentioned they were on the EB a few times this summer and they have been seen on the TE also in place of the ssl (and in addition to the regular diner/lounge)so Amtrak must have some extras sitting around! Once the remodels and new cars come on line you could also return the CONO to single level service freeing up Superliners for busy trains! If the CONO is extended to Florida this wouldnt work,

but the CCC idea is workable unless they wanna buy some of the old Santa Fe cars that are in Kansas or Illinois?

If the "Chicken Bone Express" goes back to single level, I would hope Amtrak would look high and low to scrounge up a dome to put back on her like she had pre-Superliner

And unless they have been moved since last October, there are some Hi Levels in Dallas right next to Fair Park (Cotton Bowl).

Thanks, good idea! Ill look for them when the Eagle rolls by in Oct. BTW, the Green Line is supposed to be open for the State Fair, do you know if itll use the old rr tracks that ran through there or did they build new ones like downtown?? Id think that Whoozits private dome thats being used on the Adirondack could go onto the CONO when/if it goes back to single level!

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Still think the otherwise useless CCCs would make great first class lounges for the LD routes that really need them,just a little remodel and theyre ready to roll! Several people have mentioned they were on the EB a few times this summer and they have been seen on the TE also in place of the ssl (and in addition to the regular diner/lounge)so Amtrak must have some extras sitting around! Once the remodels and new cars come on line you could also return the CONO to single level service freeing up Superliners for busy trains! If the CONO is extended to Florida this wouldnt work,

but the CCC idea is workable unless they wanna buy some of the old Santa Fe cars that are in Kansas or Illinois?

If the "Chicken Bone Express" goes back to single level, I would hope Amtrak would look high and low to scrounge up a dome to put back on her like she had pre-Superliner

And unless they have been moved since last October, there are some Hi Levels in Dallas right next to Fair Park (Cotton Bowl).

Thanks, good idea! Ill look for them when the Eagle rolls by in Oct. BTW, the Green Line is supposed to be open for the State Fair, do you know if itll use the old rr tracks that ran through there or did they build new ones like downtown?? Id think that Whoozits private dome thats being used on the Adirondack could go onto the CONO when/if it goes back to single level!

That dome is Amtraks. Its the the only one they have on the active roster. From what I understand it runs in LA every so often on the single level surfliner set.

 

[wayman]

Thanks, good idea! Ill look for them when the Eagle rolls by in Oct. BTW, the Green Line is supposed to be open for the State Fair, do you know if itll use the old rr tracks that ran through there or did they build new ones like downtown?? Id think that Whoozits private dome thats being used on the Adirondack could go onto the CONO when/if it goes back to single level!

That dome is Amtraks. Its the the only one they have on the active roster.

That's one theory. Some of us wonder whether WhoozOn1st actually owns the dome car and leases it to Amtrak....

 

[GG-1]

Thanks, good idea! Ill look for them when the Eagle rolls by in Oct. BTW, the Green Line is supposed to be open for the State Fair, do you know if itll use the old rr tracks that ran through there or did they build new ones like downtown?? Id think that Whoozits private dome thats being used on the Adirondack could go onto the CONO when/if it goes back to single level!

That dome is Amtraks. Its the the only one they have on the active roster.

That's one theory. Some of us wonder whether WhoozOn1st actually owns the dome car and leases it to Amtrak....

Aloha

No but Amtrak keeps it near him, most of the year, to tease him into becoming the next traveler, Specializing in Dome travel.

 

[AlanB]

The City of NOL, won't be going single level anytime soon. Even with the wreck repairs coming out of Bear, they will not have enough Amfleet II's to make the City single level. Even if they did actually have more AMF II's in Bear, there are no wrecked Viewliners, and therefore Amtrak has no spare single sleepers to put on the City.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

The City of NOL, won't be going single level anytime soon. Even with the wreck repairs coming out of Bear, they will not have enough Amfleet II's to make the City single level. Even if they did actually have more AMF II's in Bear, there are no wrecked Viewliners, and therefore Amtrak has no spare single sleepers to put on the City.

Perhaps Amtrak can get a stimulus grant, rent a fleet of private cars and offer The City of New Orleans Rainbow Classic :lol:

 

[Bob Dylan]

The City of NOL, won't be going single level anytime soon. Even with the wreck repairs coming out of Bear, they will not have enough Amfleet II's to make the City single level. Even if they did actually have more AMF II's in Bear, there are no wrecked Viewliners, and therefore Amtrak has no spare single sleepers to put on the City.

Perhaps Amtrak can get a stimulus grant, rent a fleet of private cars and offer The City of New Orleans Rainbow Classic :lol:

And the traveler can use his AGR points to book the train and we can all roll down the tracks to the Big Easy!! Let the Good times roll yall!!!! :lol:

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The City of NOL, won't be going single level anytime soon. Even with the wreck repairs coming out of Bear, they will not have enough Amfleet II's to make the City single level. Even if they did actually have more AMF II's in Bear, there are no wrecked Viewliners, and therefore Amtrak has no spare single sleepers to put on the City.

You don't actually need AMF IIs. You can always reconfigure AMFIs or Horizons for LD service.

 

[AlanB]

The City of NOL, won't be going single level anytime soon. Even with the wreck repairs coming out of Bear, they will not have enough Amfleet II's to make the City single level. Even if they did actually have more AMF II's in Bear, there are no wrecked Viewliners, and therefore Amtrak has no spare single sleepers to put on the City.

You don't actually need AMF IIs. You can always reconfigure AMFIs or Horizons for LD service.

It's not like Amtrak has dozens of either of those sitting around anymore either. And the ones that are coming out of mothballs are largely already earmarked for new services starting up and to beef up other existing services.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I know that, Alan. I was just pointing that out.

 

[wrjensen]

I know the cars do not exist but why do the PPC need to be a whole car? You could do a lounge upstairs and some rooms down stairs. I have not been on the PPC but how much are the lower levels use. it would be a way to kill to birds with one stones ads a FS lounge and add some revenue space.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I know the cars do not exist but why do the PPC need to be a whole car? You could do a lounge upstairs and some rooms down stairs. I have not been on the PPC but how much are the lower levels use. it would be a way to kill to birds with one stones ads a FS lounge and add some revenue space.

The car already costs a small fortune to run in its current layout... It need custom parts and everything. By adding new rooms you'll just add to that cost.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I know the cars do not exist but why do the PPC need to be a whole car? You could do a lounge upstairs and some rooms down stairs. I have not been on the PPC but how much are the lower levels use. it would be a way to kill to birds with one stones ads a FS lounge and add some revenue space.

The car already costs a small fortune to run in its current layout... It need custom parts and everything. By adding new rooms you'll just add to that cost.

I wonder about the theatre downstairs too, it tends to show "kiddie" movies, I didnt nottice a crowd @ all, most of the time it was empty!

It wouldnt hurt to have some type of bar/lounge down here, maybe even a Casino! Talk about raising revenue!If the EB can have two attendants in the lounge no reason the PPC couldnt either, especially when it comes to serving meals, running the wine and cheese tastings and selling/serving drinks like in the lounges in the old days!I know these old beauties cant last much longer, just hope Amtrak will plan ahead and get replacements ready instead of placing CCCs or ssls on this train!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I know the cars do not exist but why do the PPC need to be a whole car? You could do a lounge upstairs and some rooms down stairs. I have not been on the PPC but how much are the lower levels use. it would be a way to kill to birds with one stones ads a FS lounge and add some revenue space.

The car already costs a small fortune to run in its current layout... It need custom parts and everything. By adding new rooms you'll just add to that cost.

I wonder about the theatre downstairs too, it tends to show "kiddie" movies, I didnt nottice a crowd @ all, most of the time it was empty!

It wouldnt hurt to have some type of bar/lounge down here, maybe even a Casino! Talk about raising revenue!If the EB can have two attendants in the lounge no reason the PPC couldnt either, especially when it comes to serving meals, running the wine and cheese tastings and selling/serving drinks like in the lounges in the old days!I know these old beauties cant last much longer, just hope Amtrak will plan ahead and get replacements ready instead of placing CCCs or ssls on this train!

... The showing of the first movie coincides with the wine tasting. This way families can enjoy the PPC without being kicked out by those partaking of wine.

There is already a bar upstairs and you aren't going to convince the adding machines to add a second OBS to the car. It just barely pays for itself. This is part of the trade off-- if they add another SA then Amtrak has to find a way to work another 30-40K out of the PPC to keep it on the road.

And no, there will be no casinos on Amtrak any time soon. Amtrak's image is that of family entertainment and travel. A casino does little to add to the "living room on rails" that the PPC is billed as.

 

[Palmland]

First class lounge is an excellent idea and it is certainly something that was very common prior to Amtrak. Not much would be needed to carve out an interesting small bar and lounge seats. Perhaps something distinctive such as an art deco theme with the large windows that the Seaboard sleeper-lounge cars had.

If Amtrak follows through on their order for dorm/baggage for low level trains, this would be a good spot for a small lounge. For Superliners, the crew lounge in the transition/dorm car baffles me. Isn't the crew supposed to be working or sleeping? Try finding a crew lounge prior to Amtrak (or for that matter on viewliner trains).

In both cases it would add revenue in a space that is currently used or planned as non revenue. To avoid a staffing need, and keep the rowdies out, treat it as a wine bar with a dining car waiter serving after a wine tasting, similar to the PPC.

 

[AlanB]

If Amtrak follows through on their order for dorm/baggage for low level trains, this would be a good spot for a small lounge.

Half the car will be a baggage area, as opposed to the current full length cars, the other half will provide 7 sleeping compartments for the crew so that they don't have to occupy revenue space, along with bathrooms and a shower. Just where are they going to fit in a lounge? :unsure:

For Superliners, the crew lounge in the transition/dorm car baffles me. Isn't the crew supposed to be working or sleeping? Try finding a crew lounge prior to Amtrak (or for that matter on viewliner trains).

The crew isn't supposed to be working 24/7, especially the dining car crew. Besides, more often than not the conductors occupy at least one of the tables in the lounge, rather than taking up a table in the cafe car or the dining car.