Viewliner
Engineer
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2 Superliner Sleepers Back in Service
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Amfleet
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2 down, 103 more to go. Keep it up BG.
jccollins
Conductor
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I know that Gunn is doing everything he can to get the damaged sleepers and coaches back in service, but there really needs to be a more agressive strategy. Some routes are constantly sold out, as far as three weeks ahead of time, and Amtrak doesn't seem to be making any direct efforts to relieve these "strained areas". One example is the San Francisco/Emeryville-Sacramento-Reno/Sparks "Corridor" on the California Zephyr. A check of Amtrak's website will reveal that coach seats on train 6 from California to Reno are sold out for nearly every day, as far as three weeks from the current date. If you check on going to Reno on a Friday with a Sunday return (very popular for people who work), you will see that coach is sold at for AT LEAST the next three months.
On a more interesting note, you are able to book travel from Emeryville/Sacramento to Elko or Salt Lake City ANY DAY. It is hardly ever sold out. I was told that Amtrak only sells a limited number of seats to Reno and then says "sold out" even if two other coach cars are empty, since they reserve the other cars for travelers going beyond Reno. I called it sabotaging the route. Amtrak said that the reason this is done is so that the train's coach doesn't completely fill up between the Bay Area and Reno/Sparks and then run empty all the way to Chicago. If there is this great of a market for this "corridor", wouldn't it only make sense to start running a separate Bay Area to Reno train?? I believe the market is here. Any comments? <_<
On a more interesting note, you are able to book travel from Emeryville/Sacramento to Elko or Salt Lake City ANY DAY. It is hardly ever sold out. I was told that Amtrak only sells a limited number of seats to Reno and then says "sold out" even if two other coach cars are empty, since they reserve the other cars for travelers going beyond Reno. I called it sabotaging the route. Amtrak said that the reason this is done is so that the train's coach doesn't completely fill up between the Bay Area and Reno/Sparks and then run empty all the way to Chicago. If there is this great of a market for this "corridor", wouldn't it only make sense to start running a separate Bay Area to Reno train?? I believe the market is here. Any comments? <_<
I agree with you about putting another trains from SF to Reno. As with Las Vegas, they go for casinos and entertainments. Also, there are several snow ski resorts.
Actually, I don't know, that may be a good idea. But I do have a comment on the speed at which these superliners are put back into service. I am definitely excited that ANY are getting put back into service, as this has not been the case for a couple years. However, if we don't pick up the pace, I am afraid that derailments will be taking them out this year ALMOST as fast as we put them back together. We'll see.
C
Chris Baker
Guest
Actually, Amtrak does offer other service from the Bay area to Reno -- on the Capitols Corridr trains and connecting Thruways.
jccollins
Conductor
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Yes, the Capitols do provide train/bus combination service to Reno... but it is not patronized very well. The California Zephyr is still the preferred choice.Chris Baker said:
It would be nice if EB Capitol train 538 (currently ends in Auburn, CA at 6:35pm) continued on to Reno and Sparks. It would arrive in Reno around 10:30pm and Sparks around 10:45pm. The train could be parked in Sparks until around 2:30am, when it would become WB Capitol train 527 heading back toward the Bay Area.
This plan would not involve any additional trainsets: just more utilization of the current EB one that ends at 6:35pm nightly and is stored in Auburn until it departs WB at 6:35am the next morning.
This EB Capitol extension to Reno would provide a convenient evening departure from the Bay Area. While the WB 2:30am departure from Reno would not be the most convenient, it WOULD be a good train connection from Reno to the SB morning San Joaquin services from Sacramento and would still be well patronized west of Colfax/Auburn as it currently is. This new train connection would be able to take the place of the current WB Capitol bus departing Reno at 3:45am bound for Sacramento. The well patronized evening service would definitely make up for the lack of early morning return service.
What do you think?
Well you also have to understand, that while two may not seem like a lot, Amtrak is just starting to gear up. They only started to rehire laid off workers a few months ago. David only restarted Beech Grove working on these cars back in September or so. However as people get back in the swing of things, productivity does tend to improve.
Additionally they have to order parts to rebuild these cars. Those parts can take a while to get from the manufacturer. Some parts even have to be built from scratch by the shops themselves, as the manufacturer has gone out of business. Then of course, there is the budget problem.
I strongly suspect that there are a finite number of rebuilt cars that David feels he can pay for in the current fiscal year. So the fact that they've already turned out two cars is actually pretty good. If they can turn out at least another 5 or 6 this year alone, then they aren't doing too badly. Remember Rome wasn't built in a day. If they can do even better, well then that’s great.
Additionally they have to order parts to rebuild these cars. Those parts can take a while to get from the manufacturer. Some parts even have to be built from scratch by the shops themselves, as the manufacturer has gone out of business. Then of course, there is the budget problem.
I strongly suspect that there are a finite number of rebuilt cars that David feels he can pay for in the current fiscal year. So the fact that they've already turned out two cars is actually pretty good. If they can turn out at least another 5 or 6 this year alone, then they aren't doing too badly. Remember Rome wasn't built in a day. If they can do even better, well then that’s great.
Alan....I completely understand and agree...that's basically what I was trying to say as well. But according to the post, they only plan on 21 cars in 2 years. That's only two consists (or maybe 3 if you stretch). We could easily derail three trains in two years. So, while I agree that two cars is better than none...I am still concerned that in the long-run it won't help as much as more cars would.
Tubballen,tubaallen said:
First let's start with the hope that they won't derail any trains in the next two years.
I realize that may be unrealistic, but we can hope. Additionally we can hope that if a train does go on the ground, that damage is minimal.Now coming back to the numbers, you are thinking in terms of how many cars make up a train only. The juggling act that Amtrak is playing, isn’t so much that they need say, 8 cars or 10 cars for a particular trains’ consist. Amtrak’s problem is that they need particular types of cars.
From what I recall, when the Capital went to ground last summer it left Amtrak just short of the number of cars it needed to run all trains. I’m not positive which was most critical, but it was either the lost sleepers or the dining car that was the final straw. It wasn’t a lack of coaches however, that lead to the Cardinal ‘s need to go single level.
I believe that Amtrak currently has enough Superliner coaches to go around. Especially since they will never return to the K-Card now, thanks to its demise, plus some of the short haul routes out of Chicago have lost their Superliner equipment. To my knowledge Amtrak’s biggest shortages are in sleeping cars and diners. Following that I believe are sightseer lounges and then transition dorms. Coaches are the least of Amtrak’s worries.
Now while I’m not privy to any inside numbers, I would tend to think that based upon current fleet availability repairing the right types of cars would make a big difference. Therefore, following the numbers in the article lets assume that Beach Grove can turn out another 8 cars this year. That’s half of the 20 cars the article says are planned over two years.
If BG can turn out 2 diners, 1 trans dorm, and 5 more sleepers (in addition to the two just released); then Amtrak would be working with a comfortable margin of cars. This would be true, even if one train were to go on the ground this summer. That would probably even be enough to restore the Cardinal to Superliner equipment, unless Amtrak were to decide that they’d rather have more spare equipment available for maintenance rotations and problems.
Now next year, have BG turn out 1 sightseer lounge, 2 diners, 1 trans dorm, and 6 more sleepers. Assuming that Amtrak doesn’t loose more than 5 cars to new derailments during the next two years, and they would be sitting pretty comfortably.
Again I’m just kind of guessing at the actual numbers for each type of car, but this gives you an idea of the logistics Amtrak is facing. Additionally, it would be wonderful if Congress hands Amtrak an extra 500 Million either this year or next to help them turn out more cars faster. Regardless though of what Congress does, 20 of the right types of Superliner cars should hold Amtrak in good stead for the next few years.
Amfleet
Engineer
I don't even think the Cardinal requires much to go back ot Superliner. Before it just had 1 sleeper, diner, lounge, and 2 coaches, no crew dorm (not positive though). Even though Amtrak is short on Sleepers and Diners, many of the coaches are in need of referbishment, even if that means replacing the fabric on the seats.
The Cardinal hasn't had a trans sleeper for a few years. I know that when I rode it back in 2000, I was able to look right out the window of the door and right over the engines. It was almost like having a mini dome.Amfleet said:
While the coaches may be somewhat rundown and in need of a refurbishment, they are still usable. That's not the same a car the needs it's frame straightened, which is unusable. It's also far less costly and time consuming to replace the seats, as opposed to putting a new side on a car.
Bottom line, yes we need to do that too. But with the budget Amtrak has, they've got to take baby steps. Hopefully, Congress will figure out how to do the right thing.
Alan,
I suppose that all makes sense. I had just assumed (which I shouldn't do, because when I assume, I make an ....) that because in most of the derailments that have happened recently have affected the whole consist, I figured that the whole superliner fleet was lessened. But if you're right that there are plenty of coaches and such, then I agree. We'll be set. We'll see what happens.
I suppose that all makes sense. I had just assumed (which I shouldn't do, because when I assume, I make an ....) that because in most of the derailments that have happened recently have affected the whole consist, I figured that the whole superliner fleet was lessened. But if you're right that there are plenty of coaches and such, then I agree. We'll be set. We'll see what happens.
battalion51
Engineer
What would really help is if BG would return all of AT's equipment to them. Right now AT is tying up at least one Sightseer (33035) with them still only having four of five lounges (one may be in deep clean) and probably an additional Standard Sleeper since 32501 (to my knowledge) is still out of service. As for Dorms 9 are out of service right now. One big thing that might tie up two additional Dorms is if AT went to DASH 8's. The crews might be able to get management to use the north one in revenue service and use the south one as the Dorm so that engine crews can reach the train when necessary.
I'm sure that Beach Grove has been told to work on cars that have the least amount of damage first. With the possible exception of the Deluxe sleepers, Amtrak wants and needs to fix the least damaged cars first.battalion51 said:
There are two reasons for this, one they can be returned to service quicker since they need less work. Secondly, since they need less work Amtrak needs less money to fix them.
So even though the Auto Train is the premier train on the east coast, it's damaged equipment may not be a BG priority with the possible exception of the deluxe sleepers.
Viewliner
Engineer
I don't know about this, but why not put a Coach/Dorm (Hi-Level) Car at the coach end and do it that way? it might see more usage.battalion51 said:
Amfleet
Engineer
I think one of the AT lounges is to be scrapped.
Viewliner
Engineer
The Superliner Car Roster (Web Lurker's DOMEmain) lists it as out of service.
Amfleet
Engineer
The old Hi-level Coach Dorms are being scrapped and would need a lot of work to go back into service, including the installation of retention tanks. The hi-level Pacifc Parlors on the Coast Starlight are barely holding up.Viewliner said:
battalion51
Engineer
Really? I know someone (my AT Conductor friend) who was in one the sleeper lounge (33101) during the accident, and that car has already been returned to service. I don't remember however if 33100 was turned over. I know 33101 was because he said he walked away from the accident with rocks in his pockets from where the lounge had turned over and ballast began pouring in. The same may hold true (as far as damage) to Palme Beach, but I don't think either will be scrapped because those that were not road worthy wouldn't have made it on the Hospital train from SFA to BG (as SFA scrapped three).
Viewliner
Engineer
Didn't know, but the idea is a good concept as it would get more usage vs. a Trans Sleeper.
Amtrak Watcher
Lead Service Attendant
The Superliner Sleepers seem to me to be made of highly specialized and stout parts. They seem to be custom built. This seems so for everything except, perhaps, the electrical parts and the toilets. Where do all the parts come from? Are they manufactured right there in Beach Grove, or do they have to be ordered from someone?
battalion51
Engineer
Some parts are still made by various companies like Bombardier (who built the Superliner II's). But some of the more specialized parts are not stocked by manfacturers anymore and have to be machined by BG. (One side note, At has three Trans Sleepers that have the eight tables, 39000, 39001, and 39002. The third sleeper is held at SFA in reserve in case one of the other two goes down, so when it comes on line it stays on line until it needs repair. The Trans number is what most guys use to identify one trainset from another)
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