2021 Infrastructure Bill

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jis

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Perhaps you missed the extended discussion of this buill in this long running thread:



MODERATOR NOTE: Merged the 2 threads
 
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Qapla

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Yes, I guess I missed that thread ... I looked for a thread that addressed the change of mandate and didn't see one ... sorry

Thanks for merging it
 

jis

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From what it looks as far as the politics of it goes, it will sit in the House until the Senate passes the much larger Reconciliation Bill. So it may be still a while before the money is actually there.
 
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Bob Dylan

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From what it looks as far as the politics of it goes, it will sit in the House until the Senate passes the much larger Reconciliation Bill. So it may be still a while before the money is actually there.
Yep, House Tepublicans and " Progressive Democrats" will add so many amendment that the Senate will never agree too, that this Bill is Months, if not years away!

And the House is on August " Recess", aka Vacation till after Labor Day!🤬
 

Dakota 400

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House Tepublicans and " Progressive Democrats" will add so many amendment that the Senate will never agree too, that this Bill is Months, if not years away!
I am more hopeful. Early this afternoon, CNN reported that a group of moderate Democrats are encouraging the Speaker to bring this newly Senate passed Bill to the Floor for a stand alone vote. The "horsetrading" that went on in the Senate that was successful in getting this Bill passed must now occur in the House. For the Bill to pass with the number of Republicans supporting it is most encouraging to me. It proves Government can work when "the adults" are in charge.
 

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I am more hopeful. Early this afternoon, CNN reported that a group of moderate Democrats are encouraging the Speaker to bring this newly Senate passed Bill to the Floor for a stand alone vote. The "horsetrading" that went on in the Senate that was successful in getting this Bill passed must now occur in the House. For the Bill to pass with the number of Republicans supporting it is most encouraging to me. It proves Government can work when "the adults" are in charge.
Genuine question from the other side of the pond: is passing a Bill through the Senate before it goes to the House (i) unusual, or (ii) invariable practice, or (iii) it depends?
 

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I am more hopeful. Early this afternoon, CNN reported that a group of moderate Democrats are encouraging the Speaker to bring this newly Senate passed Bill to the Floor for a stand alone vote. The "horsetrading" that went on in the Senate that was successful in getting this Bill passed must now occur in the House. For the Bill to pass with the number of Republicans supporting it is most encouraging to me. It proves Government can work when "the adults" are in charge.
Of course the moderates are encouraging the Speaker to pass the bill immediately. That gives them more leverage on the contents of the reconciliation bill, which contains stuff that no Republican will vote for. The real "horsetrading" is going on between the Speaker and these moderate Democrats. Of course, everyone knows that they can't play this game of chicken too long, and the moderates will have to give up stuff that the progressives really want, and vice versa for the progressives. Everybody on that side of the aisle wants a win for the President and their party, though, so despite some of the posturing, I'm hopeful they'll come up with something that everyone can live with. Unfortunately, the folks on the other side of the aisle equally want a defeat for the President and his party and are willing to do what it takes to inflict one, even if it hurts their constituents. While it's nice to see that 19 of the 50 broke ranks for this, I'm keeping my champagne bottle corked until we start seeing more of a trend (and the infrastructure bill gets signed and passed.)

By the way, I wonder if there will be additional funding for passenger rail/transit in the reconciliation bill.
 
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chrsjrcj

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I think the bill the Senate passed includes too much funding for highways. Unlike most, I’m okay with the House sitting on it to get it right. What we really can’t afford to do is continue pouring money into new roads if we want to tackle CO2 emissions and make the train a viable alternative.
 

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I think the bill the Senate passed includes too much funding for highways. Unlike most, I’m okay with the House sitting on it to get it right. What we really can’t afford to do is continue pouring money into new roads if we want to tackle CO2 emissions and make the train a viable alternative.
For better or for worse, there has to be a lot of highway funding. That’s the whole point of compromise.

That said, I’m definitely with you; it’s better than the first rounds of haggling however, which had more than double the amount for roads.

I was dismayed to see the transit portion of the bill mostly slashed, when such a large portion of citizens rely on it.
 
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Bob Dylan

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Genuine question from the other side of the pond: is passing a Bill through the Senate before it goes to the House (i) unusual, or (ii) invariable practice, or (iii) it depends?
The answer is it depends.

The Constitution Mandates that all Tax/ Revenue Bills must originate in the House, so with that exception, it can be either body that passes a Bill first.( the House does introduce and Pass Many more Bills than the Senate)

Most Bills that die are due to the Senate not agreeing to even take them up!
 

jis

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Those who read the actual bill that was passed will notice that it is worded as a substitution amendment to a House Bill HR 3684. So technically the original text in the bill originated in the House, and it is replaced in its entirety by this amendment.
 

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Those who read the actual bill that was passed will notice that it is worded as a substitution amendment to a House Bill HR 3684. So technically the original text in the bill originated in the House, and it is replaced in its entirety by this amendment.
Any chance I could imposition you to drop a link to the actual bill?
 

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The answer is it depends.

The Constitution Mandates that all Tax/ Revenue Bills must originate in the House, so with that exception, it can be either body that passes a Bill first.( the House does introduce and Pass Many more Bills than the Senate)

Most Bills that die are due to the Senate not agreeing to even take them up!
Thanks. I suppose I was assuming this was a tax/revenue bill, but it clearly isn’t. The situation here in the UK is similar, in that money bills are really the preserve of the lower house** but anything else may originate in either house. In practice, most business originates in the Commons, but the Lords is useful for kicking off the odd non-partisan reform.

** The current situation is a “temporary” solution to the constitutional crisis of 1910/1911 - when the upper house blocked the government’s budget. We’re still awaiting reform 110 years later.
 

Bob Dylan

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Thanks. I suppose I was assuming this was a tax/revenue bill, but it clearly isn’t. The situation here in the UK is similar, in that money bills are really the preserve of the lower house** but anything else may originate in either house. In practice, most business originates in the Commons, but the Lords is useful for kicking off the odd non-partisan reform.

** The current situation is a “temporary” solution to the constitutional crisis of 1910/1911 - when the upper house blocked the government’s budget. We’re still awaiting reform 110 years later.
Lots of us sometimes wish we had a Parlimentary System so we could get rid of those Public Servants quicker that are not doing their jobs, are corrupt, or incompetent!
 

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Genuine question from the other side of the pond: is passing a Bill through the Senate before it goes to the House (i) unusual, or (ii) invariable practice, or (iii) it depends?
There is also the fun situation where two competing bills are introduced in both Houses and they have to go to a conference committee to hammer out the differences, then both Houses have to pass the joint bill before it goes to the President.
 

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There is also the fun situation where two competing bills are introduced in both Houses and they have to go to a conference committee to hammer out the differences, then both Houses have to pass the joint bill before it goes to the President.
True and I think we all should hope that a Conference Committee is required to develop a third Bill that might not be Amtrak friendly.

I think the bill the Senate passed includes too much funding for highways. Unlike most, I’m okay with the House sitting on it to get it right. What we really can’t afford to do is continue pouring money into new roads if we want to tackle CO2 emissions and make the train a viable alternative.
I agree in part with your post. In parts of our country, and the Fort Lauderdale area is one of them, the traffic congestion that exists needs to be "fixed". Cars aren't going to go away from local in-community and close environs travel. Improved public transit would help, but, nonetheless, it is going to take many years before our auto centered culture really changes.

Money--major amounts of it--are needed for highway and street repairs. What is also needed is major oversight of the work that is done that is QUALITY highway/street work. The Senate Bill moves us along in the direction of needed funding. Lacking is how will the spending of this money overseen.

Then, let me mention bridges that need to be rebuilt, repaired, and a few places that require another bridge. There happens to be a certain bridge that crosses the Ohio River between Covington, Kentucky and Cincinnati, Ohio that needs help; the traffic counts more than warrant another bridge to be built in that area. A serious fire that closed that bridge late 2020 caused serious issues and had an economic impact on Ohio and Kentucky. It's no coincidence that the Senior Senator from Kentucky was a supporter of this Bill. We'll never know what he has heard from the business interests in Kentucky. I'll bet it has been plenty! The fact that the Junior Senator from Ohio was one of two lead negotiators to get this Bill passed: I expect he has heard much from those whom he represents as well.
 

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There's too much vital stuff which has to be passed through reconciliation; in the House, the progressives (94 of them) have far more leverage than the "moderates" (19 of them) so the reconciliation bill is going to pass before this highway-heavy "bipartisan" bill is passed; they want to make sure their priorities get done before handing a gift to the highway-lovers. Pelosi's already made it clear that the "bipartisan" bill will wait for the reconciliation bill to go first.

However, before EITHER of these bills pass, the debt limit crisis is going to hit.
 

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There's too much vital stuff which has to be passed through reconciliation; in the House, the progressives (94 of them) have far more leverage than the "moderates" (19 of them) . . .
I'm not sure why you think that the progressives have more leverage than the moderates. It would seem that fewer of them need to defect in order for the bill to fail. In any event, my understanding is that, posturing aside, the entire caucus is focused on passing both bills, as it is very important that they show the country that they are the "adults in the room," as they're getting virtually no help from the other side. Of course it's going to be highway-heavy; the vast majority of Americans and their goods are travel on the highways. That's not going to change in our lifetimes, unless the apocalypse comes, in which case we'll have a lot more to worry about than the contents of the infrastructure and reconciliation bills.
 

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the entire caucus is focused on passing both bills, as it is very important that they show the country that they are the "adults in the room," as they're getting virtually no help from the other side.
AOC, maybe the most progressive member of the House caucus, said weeks ago that she(they) wanted the President to be successful. By doing so, they will increase the country's realizations that they are part of "the adults in the room". It's good for the country; it's good politics.

Maybe a pollyanish hope, but there are GOP House members whose Districts would significantly benefit from the use of the funds in this Bill. Specifically, the House Members who represent the Cincinnati area and 2-3 other Members who represent Districts in Southwestern Ohio and Southeastern Indiana. There is the potential of more GOP support, I think, if the specter of the 45th President of the United States looms less and less as time pass. That specter was of little concern for 19 GOP members of the Senate.
 

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I'm not sure why you think that the progressives have more leverage than the moderates. It would seem that fewer of them need to defect in order for the bill to fail. In any event, my understanding is that, posturing aside, the entire caucus is focused on passing both bills, as it is very important that they show the country that they are the "adults in the room," as they're getting virtually no help from the other side. Of course it's going to be highway-heavy; the vast majority of Americans and their goods are travel on the highways. That's not going to change in our lifetimes, unless the apocalypse comes, in which case we'll have a lot more to worry about than the contents of the infrastructure and reconciliation bills.
Specifically, the so-called moderates who think that they can get the infrastructure bill to go first (with no guarantee that they'll vote for reconciliation afterwards) have no leverage to do that. The reconciliation bill is going to go first and everyone knows this now, and Pelosi has said so. The progressives already used their leverage to make that happen (and they have promised to vote for the infrastructure bill after they're assured that reconciliation is happening, and they will). So it's pretty clear what will happen, both bills will pass the House, reconciliation first.

So this is an important point about how leverage works in politics: The so-called moderates in the House had less leverage precisely because the Senate "moderates" couldn't credibly make the logrolling promise to vote for reconciliation once the infrastructure bill was done -- because the Senate "moderates" have low credibility and are not trusted to vote for reconciliation once they've "got what they wanted".

Because the House progressives promised to vote for the infrastructure bill if the reconciliation bill was passed first, and they have a reputation for keeping their promises, the progressives have more leverage. Trustworthiness is a form of power.

But like I said, the debt limit crisis will hit the Senate first.
 

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