$66 billion for Amtrak

[yyy]

They still have no plan to replace superliner

 

[jis]

They still have no plan to replace superliner

2025 is the target timeframe for finalizing a plan for that so that orders can be placed. This $66B over ten years ($28B total for National Network) provides the foundational funding for actually putting such in motion. Repeatedly saying there isn't a plan is hardly likely to change that. Read the published Amtrak Equipment Plan.

The attached chart does not line up with Flynn's statement in the previous article (WSJ) where he indicated about 30 billion of the 66 billion would be for the NEC. Is this because of a different pot distribution?

National Network is $28B coming from $12B from Fed-State Partnership and the balance of $16B from base

For NEC it is $24B set aside from the $36B Fed-State Partnership for NEC plus the base $6B for NEC making $30B for NEC.

Just look at the stuff under "Bipartisan Infrastructure Deal" (light orange highlighted line). The stuff above that is Authorization for annual Appropriation for the next five years.

Remember that the Appropriations come over and above the $6.6B per year for each year averaged out over ten years. So if the full amounts are appropriated then the actual amount for for the first five years, each year, will be the $6.6B plus another $3.3B to $4.4B or so per year from above the light orange line. The authorized appropriation amounts vary a bit from year to year.

 

[lordsigma]

The attached chart does not line up with Flynn's statement in the previous article (WSJ) where he indicated about 30 billion of the 66 billion would be for the NEC. Is this because of a different pot distribution?

45% of the money in the “fed-state partnership” line item is meant for the NEC. That’s where the bulk of the funding for shared use assets on the NEC will come from. The direct NEC appropriations are meant for Amtrak’s Portions of costs and for sole use assets.

 

[JoshP]

Here what I found in the bill states for Amtrak:

 

[MARC Rider]

Outside of the NEC, the country is just simply too big to expect people to depend on rail to the extent they do elsewhere

That's really not true. I think that the population density of the country east of the Mississippi (and maybe a bit west, too) is very similar to that of Europe. Also, the West Coast (from central California (say, Sonoma County/Sacramento) to San Diego and the Eugene Oregon to the Washington-Canada border west of the Cascades) is also pretty densely populated. We let our rail network deteriorate for cultural reasons, not because of some exceptionalism that makes North America somehow geographically different from every other continent.

 

[Dakota 400]

Failing to pass the budget is just *embarassing* -- it looks incompetent.

As well as the Bill needed to raise the debt ceiling. Both parties will pay a price for that with the minority Party being the most to blame, if people understand that.

He ended up doing a "second try" with a bunch of smaller agencies which was far more effective (many of those agencies are still with us today). So implementation is key.

Agree. The passage of this Bill must be seen by our countrymen to be starting to make a difference in their lives. It's going to take many years for the "fruits" in that Bill to be fulfilled, i.e. a new bridge between Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky for I-71 and I-75, but a start in such directions is absolutely needed.

 

[GoAmtrak]

Yes - finally. It is put up or shut up time for Amtrak. I for one, am rooting for them to have their act together.

And on this forum – I hope we all remember that despite the fact that the majority of the funds are geared for Corridor type routes – that can do nothing but help long-distance.

I'm so happy this infrastructure bill finally passed

I heard it as the first headline turning the radio on - even in Switzerland it was topic number one! I think we can finally dream of major improvements of passenger rail in the US in the future. And if it works out well and it gains further popularity, certain passenger services may have a good chance to remain for more than 2-3 years.

I'm hopeful it helps the corridor type routes as well as the long-distance routes - Despite corridor routes might get more money first as Amtrak is probably looking more at densely populated areas which completely underserverd/unserverd by passenger rail. But connections between long-distance routes could also finally get a boost, like the Oklahoma City-Newton connection, the Cleveland-Cincinnati route and the Toledo-Detroit route.
In the longterm, I'm convinced if corridor routes are successful, other areas will become more and more interested in re-establishing (long-distance) passenger rail again in their city or state.

Thanks to everybody who made that possible! A thank you goes also to all of you who have probably done much of your time, money and energy to convince politicans passenger rail in the US must grow.

 

[GoAmtrak]

That's really not true. I think that the population density of the country east of the Mississippi (and maybe a bit west, too) is very similar to that of Europe. Also, the West Coast (from central California (say, Sonoma County/Sacramento) to San Diego and the Eugene Oregon to the Washington-Canada border west of the Cascades) is also pretty densely populated. We let our rail network deteriorate for cultural reasons, not because of some exceptionalism that makes North America somehow geographically different from every other continent.

I couldn't have said it better. Especially the Midwest, but also parts of the Southeastern US are densely populated (and could theoretically have decent passenger rail connections between eacht other) but have a deteriorated passenger rail network.

Of course, there are areas in North America where scarce population might partly explain the poor passenger railway network, like in Wyoming or South Dakota. But there are enough regions in the US of which I'm convinced there is some intereste for increased passenger rail.

 

[Dakota 400]

And very pleased that some Republican members supported the Bill! (I wonder if my Republican member of Congress did. I'd be shocked if he did.)

And, he didn't. But, the Republican Member of Congress from Alaska, my Nephew's home state, Mr. Young, did! My Nephew was very surprised that he did support the Bill. But, as my Nephew said, there are some good benefits in the Bill for our 49th State. Senator Murkowski was part of the Republican group that got the Bill passed by the Senate.

 

[PaTrainFan]

And, he didn't. But, the Republican Member of Congress from Alaska, my Nephew's home state, Mr. Young, did! My Nephew was very surprised that he did support the Bill. But, as my Nephew said, there are some good benefits in the Bill for our 49th State. Senator Murkowski was part of the Republican group that got the Bill passed by the Senate.

Although "pork" is officially dead, this bill was stocked full of goodies so that most members of Congress could take home to brag about supporting, if they chose to. So, those who voted against will have to explain why they did not want treats for their home states.

 

[GoAmtrak]

There is much more to this bill as far as Amtrak is concerned, than just the $66 Billion. This Bill is also the Authorization for next five years, and it changes the fundamental structure of Amtrak and what it is all about. The emphasis for the first time shifts from becoming profitable to providing service, and the change is reflected in the amended Missions and Goals.

For more details see Jim Matthew (of RPA) letter from Friday night....

https://railpassengers.org/happening-now/news/blog/iija-victory-letter/

That's also quite an interesting aspect. When Amtrak gets the possibility to focus on providing a minimum of service instead of being forced to be profitable... Could this open up new possibilities for more (or new) long distance trains in rural areas like between the Northwest and the Great Plains?

In my home country, in Switzerland, public transport and other public services (like post offices) partly have to guarantee a sort of basic care (named "Grundversorgung") which is highly weighted among politicans and in public discussions. It is an aspect which our authorities believe it ties together our country, the more prosperous with the more marginal parts of our country (for example rural areas in the Alps and the North West). Generally, I appreciate this kind of thinking. Naturally, urban areas get more services (of all kinds) in Switzerland too, but rural or less prosperous regions aren't forgotten.

 

[MIrailfan]

cut thepork.

 

[John Bredin]

cut thepork.

Define thepork.

 

[Tlcooper93]

cut thepork.

Very curious to know what you consider “thepork.”

 

[Tlcooper93]

Outside of the NEC, the country is just simply too big to expect people to depend on rail to the extent they do elsewhere.


Trains (even outside the NEC) are not just for retired folks or folks on holiday with a lot of time on their hands.

Yeah this isn’t really true. The Midwest has population density in some areas similar to the NEC, and in terms of area of the country, China has something similar with the rail to back it up.

To your second point, I’m not really sure your average person considers the eclectic Amtrak passenger to be an old person on holiday either. Amtrak actually has a pretty broad base of passengers ranging all types and classes of people

 

[Andrew]

2025 is the target timeframe for finalizing a plan for that so that orders can be placed. This $66B over ten years ($28B total for National Network) provides the foundational funding for actually putting such in motion. Repeatedly saying there isn't a plan is hardly likely to change that. Read the published Amtrak Equipment Plan.


National Network is $28B coming from $12B from Fed-State Partnership and the balance of $16B from base

For NEC it is $24B set aside from the $36B Fed-State Partnership for NEC plus the base $6B for NEC making $30B for NEC.

Just look at the stuff under "Bipartisan Infrastructure Deal" (light orange highlighted line). The stuff above that is Authorization for annual Appropriation for the next five years.

Remember that the Appropriations come over and above the $6.6B per year for each year averaged out over ten years. So if the full amounts are appropriated then the actual amount for for the first five years, each year, will be the $6.6B plus another $3.3B to $4.4B or so per year from above the light orange line. The authorized appropriation amounts vary a bit from year to year.

This money is supposed to be allocated over five years...

 

[Steve Manfred]

How long has this been the case? Seems a VERY big hole in my American Politics class, which it could be or if it's less than 50 years old that could also explain it.

It’s been in the Constitution since the beginning. I first learned about this bit in fourth grade.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

That's really not true. I think that the population density of the country east of the Mississippi (and maybe a bit west, too) is very similar to that of Europe. Also, the West Coast (from central California (say, Sonoma County/Sacramento) to San Diego and the Eugene Oregon to the Washington-Canada border west of the Cascades) is also pretty densely populated. We let our rail network deteriorate for cultural reasons, not because of some exceptionalism that makes North America somehow geographically different from every other continent.

I agree with this. Also consider that since 1971 when Amtrak was formed, most of the growth in the US has been in the South and West, but our Amtrak system is still oriented towards what was populated 50 years ago. Entire cities such as Phoenix with no convenient service.

One can look at Russia as an example of a large country with a spread out population yet with good rail service. Of course part of the reason may be that under the Soviet system, cars were hard to come by so people got in the habit of using trains for intercity travel.

 

[Tlcooper93]

This money is supposed to be allocated over five years...

I don’t think the yearly allocation will be a problem for purchasing superliner replacements. The most recent order was only 7 billion or so.

 

[87YJ]

"Entire cities such as Phoenix with no convenient service"

PHX will be fine, with out a train stopping downtown. Those days are over. Just a matter of time for MCR to have a light rail link to PHX.
The track purchase some want will cost the SL close to a hour as stops would be in time @ Buckeye & Gilbert. With the money the track costs(and over runs) would pay for lots of equipment.
My thinking is have clean new trainsets that run on time. Trust me they will come to ride! JMHO

 

[me_little_me]

If you don't have enough engineers and conductor's qualified on routes to run trains 7 days a week, what to you suggest they do?

Fire the execs for their failures. They are paid to do a good job and, when they do so, are honored and get bonuses. They need to take responsibility for their failures and either quit or be terminated for cause. May not immediately help the worker employment situation but I could see morale rise, trained workers reconsider their not coming back, experienced freight engineers needing little additional training and tired of being screwed by "Precision Railroading" rethinking their position, and customers seeing light at the end of the tunnel with the idiots gone.

Like everywhere else, replacing a failed general who lost the battle doesn't mean an immediate victory but it does mean the future looks brighter and the troops are energized to do their part.

Amtrak needs new leaders that tell congress and the public "Here is why we failed and the failures are over. We can't promise immediate success but our way of doing business and our past hiding of failures is going to end. We intend to be open from now on as a publicly owned company should be and we intend to fix our problems".

 

[jis]

Fire the execs for their failures.

And of course that will fix the immediate problem with a complex series of causes immediately!

 

[VentureForth]

Don't think this will make it through the Senate. But if it does, I doubt seriously that we will ever see any marked improvement on Amtrak. Maybe some nice new carriages that will be nice and new for about 5 years, but I fear it will be lost completely into real estate interests of the executive management.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Don't think this will make it through the Senate. But if it does, I doubt seriously that we will ever see any marked improvement on Amtrak. Maybe some nice new carriages that will be nice and new for about 5 years, but I fear it will be lost completely into real estate interests of the executive management.

Hmm, the infrastructure one was already passed by the Senate. It's now waiting for Biden's signature

 

[jis]

Hmm, the infrastructure one was already passed by the Senate. It's now waiting for Biden's signature

Indeed. It passed the Senate many months back. It was held up in the House as a hostage for getting the Reconciliation Bill through with votes of the moderates. Apparently the two by four that was applied to the posterior of the Democrats on the election day dislodged that hostage situation. It is indeed with Biden. Even if he forgets to sign it, it becomes law in ten days.

I hope we don't have to wait for another two by four on the posterior from the next election to move the Reconciliation Bill, with CRs galore until then