A couple of questions about electrical/heating onboard

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S

Striker

Train Attendant
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
25
My recent trips (during the winter seasons) have me wondering a little more about the technical capabilities of the Superliners. I've noticed on occasion that when we're stopped in stations that the electrical power will go off. Sometimes it's just a moment, other times it's maybe a minute or two. Why does the conductor do this? Or is it the car attendant who does it? Is it a precaution for some refueling procedure or something else?

What sort of heating setup is used for the train? I sort of figured that sense the engine is generating 440+ volts for the entire train that the heat probably comes from heating coils in the HVAC systems, similar to the heating coils used in some homes for the 'backup' heat on heat pump setups. Is all electrical 440+ volts, with the exception of the outlets for passengers? Are the stoves/cooking setups in the diners on 440? What about the water/sewage systems or the doors between cars?
 
Striker said:
My recent trips (during the winter seasons) have me wondering a little more about the technical capabilities of the Superliners. I've noticed on occasion that when we're stopped in stations that the electrical power will go off. Sometimes it's just a moment, other times it's maybe a minute or two. Why does the conductor do this? Or is it the car attendant who does it? Is it a precaution for some refueling procedure or something else?
What sort of heating setup is used for the train? I sort of figured that sense the engine is generating 440+ volts for the entire train that the heat probably comes from heating coils in the HVAC systems, similar to the heating coils used in some homes for the 'backup' heat on heat pump setups. Is all electrical 440+ volts, with the exception of the outlets for passengers? Are the stoves/cooking setups in the diners on 440? What about the water/sewage systems or the doors between cars?
Click to expand...
Most modern pax trains used what is called HEP (Head End Power) which is a separate Generator Set, located in the body of the diesel engine. (some tourist or excursion trains have a separate car, where the HEP equipment is located) that provides power from the "Head End" (engine) to the rest of the train.

You can pretty much rest assured that the conductor, and certainly not the car attendant, has anything to do with the HEP going "offline" for few minutes while in a station. The reasons why the power will go out are numerous, Other Posters will chime in I'm sure. And a lot of it depends upon WHICH station you are in, and if the train is switching from diesel to electric engines, or the train is arriving at it's terminus.

If the train is arriving at it's terminus, the locomotive is usually quickly shut down, to preserve fuel and not foul the air, and the cables, (think REALLY BIG extension cords) are "unplugged" from the engine, and plugged in to "shore power". Sometimes these cables can be a bit cantankerous, and it takes a few minutes to get all the pin-outs solidly connected.

Water and sewage does NOT flow between cars. Each car is self-contained when it comes to storage tanks. In terminals that don't have a sewer to pump into. (think RV) many times a "honey wagon" will pull up, and offload the sewage.
 
rrdude said:
Striker said:
My recent trips (during the winter seasons) have me wondering a little more about the technical capabilities of the Superliners. I've noticed on occasion that when we're stopped in stations that the electrical power will go off. Sometimes it's just a moment, other times it's maybe a minute or two.
Click to expand...
Most modern pax trains used what is called HEP (Head End Power) which is a separate Generator Set, located in the body of the diesel engine. (some tourist or excursion trains have a separate car, where the HEP equipment is located) that provides power from the "Head End" (engine) to the rest of the train.

You can pretty much rest assured that the conductor, and certainly not the car attendant, has anything to do with the HEP going "offline" for few minutes while in a station. The reasons why the power will go out are numerous, Other Posters will chime in I'm sure. And a lot of it depends upon WHICH station you are in, and if the train is switching from diesel to electric engines, or the train is arriving at it's terminus.

If the train is arriving at it's terminus, the locomotive is usually quickly shut down, to preserve fuel and not foul the air, and the cables, (think REALLY BIG extension cords) are "unplugged" from the engine, and plugged in to "shore power". Sometimes these cables can be a bit cantankerous, and it takes a few minutes to get all the pin-outs solidly connected.
Click to expand...
Aloha

Here is a Picture of the cables between cars, or the engine.

9836227_dfnL7-S.jpg


Hope this give you an idea of size.
 
Let me add some personal observations to what others have said.

1) When the Crescent changes between diesel and electric locomotives at WAS, HEP is dropped before uncoupling the old locomotive and brought back up after the new locomotive is fully connected. This may take as much as 10 minutes for the locomotives to be shunted around the yard.

2) HEP is dropped whenever cars are added or removed from a train. HEP was dropped when the Crescent used to add/remove Mobile, AL cars at Birmingham, AL in the 90s.

3) Also, HEP was dropped when 5 private cars with Super Bowl fans were added in NOL, and again when they were removed in WAS.

HEP MUST be turned off while working with the inter-car cables. The amount of current flowing will generate a dangerous arcing condition that could kill the person handling the cables.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Striker said:
My recent trips (during the winter seasons) have me wondering a little more about the technical capabilities of the Superliners. I've noticed on occasion that when we're stopped in stations that the electrical power will go off. Sometimes it's just a moment, other times it's maybe a minute or two. Why does the conductor do this? Or is it the car attendant who does it? Is it a precaution for some refueling procedure or something else?
What sort of heating setup is used for the train? I sort of figured that sense the engine is generating 440+ volts for the entire train that the heat probably comes from heating coils in the HVAC systems, similar to the heating coils used in some homes for the 'backup' heat on heat pump setups. Is all electrical 440+ volts, with the exception of the outlets for passengers? Are the stoves/cooking setups in the diners on 440? What about the water/sewage systems or the doors between cars?
Click to expand...
The system is 480 volts- and the whole thing is sometimes referred to as "the 480". Heating is done electrically. I think the stoves are gas-fired, but I have no solid reason for thinking that. I suspect the grill is, if only because they have managed to serve my dad "blackened" steaks that are solid charcoal. (Which is the way, for reasons completely eluding me, he likes them). I don't think you can do that with an electric grill.

In the old days, power was generated by generators connected to the wheels, and heat was provided by steam, originally from the engine itself (back in the steam days) and later from steam generators onboard the train (the downfall of Amtrak's first main diesels, the SDP40Fs)
 
I was wondering if the Superliners still have the macerators that liquefied the sewage and sprayed it out above a certain speed, or do they now retain all until emptied? They used to sound like a siren when they were spinning.

I remember when there were special instructions for crew to place these on "inhibit", to prevent their spraying in restricted locations.
 
I kind of thought so, but I wasn't sure. A good thing, too. Probably Superliner II's never even had them.
 
George said:
I remember as a kid in the fourties flushing the toilet on the CP trains in Canada and seeing the railroad ties flashing by! My, how times have indeed changed.
Click to expand...
Oh, I remember that from the 70s ... maybe even the 80s. (I'm not sure when that practice was finally outlawed, but surprisingly, it wasn't all that long ago.)

And it still happens in some other countries, particularly in the Third World.
 
Montanan said:
George said:
I remember as a kid in the fourties flushing the toilet on the CP trains in Canada and seeing the railroad ties flashing by! My, how times have indeed changed.
Click to expand...
Oh, I remember that from the 70s ... maybe even the 80s. (I'm not sure when that practice was finally outlawed, but surprisingly, it wasn't all that long ago.)

And it still happens in some other countries, particularly in the Third World.
Click to expand...
Nearly all countries in Europe still have "dump to atmosphere" toilets, unless that's what you meant by 3rd world!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It could have been, I really (sadly) don't have a lot of memories of the particulars on the rail part of the trip. It could have also been on the CHI-PHL leg, which I remember thinking at the time was "really crappy", not knowing what heritage equipment was.
 
George said:
Green Maned Lion said:
Rules have changed. All trains are now required to retain their sewage.
Click to expand...

I remember as a kid in the fourties flushing the toilet on the CP trains in Canada and seeing the railroad ties flashing by! My, how times have indeed changed.
Click to expand...
I remember seeing the railroad ties through the toilet in the early seventies. "Don't flush the toilet while in the station!"

Some people are really shocked when you tell them about this today, they never heard of it.
 
railiner said:
Ryan said:
I remember it from my trip to Philmont in 1994.
Click to expand...
That recently? You must have been seated in an old HiLevel Transdorm that still had the old fashioned toilets.
Click to expand...
I can't speak for all trains, but the sleepers for the Three Rivers were still running with direct dump toilets in 2000, and I think into 2002. It might have been 2001 when the 3R's got Viewliners, but I know that in 2000 I rode in a Heritage sleeper with direct dump.
 
AlanB said:
railiner said:
Ryan said:
I remember it from my trip to Philmont in 1994.
Click to expand...
That recently? You must have been seated in an old HiLevel Transdorm that still had the old fashioned toilets.
Click to expand...
I can't speak for all trains, but the sleepers for the Three Rivers were still running with direct dump toilets in 2000, and I think into 2002. It might have been 2001 when the 3R's got Viewliners, but I know that in 2000 I rode in a Heritage sleeper with direct dump.
Click to expand...
Aloha

Is the "Heritage" sleeper the one that in the Economy room the bed folds down over the head?

Mahalo
 
Neil_M said:
Montanan said:
George said:
I remember as a kid in the fourties flushing the toilet on the CP trains in Canada and seeing the railroad ties flashing by! My, how times have indeed changed.
Click to expand...
Oh, I remember that from the 70s ... maybe even the 80s. (I'm not sure when that practice was finally outlawed, but surprisingly, it wasn't all that long ago.)

And it still happens in some other countries, particularly in the Third World.
Click to expand...
Nearly all countries in Europe still have "dump to atmosphere" toilets, unless that's what you meant by 3rd world!
Click to expand...
Or "turd world," an especially apt nickname for developing countries (and other places where hopper toilets are still used).

800px-Do_not_use_the_toilet.jpg


Interesting observation: WC (from British English water closet) is used as the word for toilet on all translations of the sign—except the one in English!
 
GG-1 said:
AlanB said:
railiner said:
Ryan said:
I remember it from my trip to Philmont in 1994.
Click to expand...
That recently? You must have been seated in an old HiLevel Transdorm that still had the old fashioned toilets.
Click to expand...
I can't speak for all trains, but the sleepers for the Three Rivers were still running with direct dump toilets in 2000, and I think into 2002. It might have been 2001 when the 3R's got Viewliners, but I know that in 2000 I rode in a Heritage sleeper with direct dump.
Click to expand...
Aloha

Is the "Heritage" sleeper the one that in the Economy room the bed folds down over the head?

Mahalo
Click to expand...
Eric,

I believe so, but I can't say with certainty. I was in a Bedroom (aka Deluxe Bedroom). But the Heritage cars were the original sleepers that Amtrak had inherited from the freight RR's, so I would tend to think that it correct.
 
Aloha

My first overnight Sleeper was between Jacksonville, FL and Washington, DC The compartment had the fold down bed, which was comfortable, I cant remember for sure what was the bedroom in the Broadway limited, that summer before the train was canceled, but it was an Economy class. From Chicago was the now named Roomette. This may be a clue to car type. I was just thrilled to finally be in a long distance train after the number of years of Hawaii without trains and the local stuff between Philadelphia and NYC as a kid.

Mahalo

Eric
 

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