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Touchdowntom9

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Based on any actual professional training, or just a gut feeling?

Even if you solve that, I think that the track centers are too close together to enable tilting for any actual high speed operation.
No professional training, but my understanding is that the euro rules for cant def allow for higher deficiency than the FRA does in the US in similar track scenarios, and there isn't an obvious reason for that difference
 

jis

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ehh heavier freight cars in US ?
Also extra height cars. I suspect FRA would allow higher cant deficiency in segregated passenger lines where freight trains are not permitted but that precludes doing so on most of NEC.
 

west point

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I have been traveling that stretch all my life and I don't think I have ever seen it not having some sort of major maintenance being done and all four tracks open.
The problem at Walk is that the swing bridge is being replaced with 2 separate lift bridges. That requires tracks 1 and 3 to be moved approximately 15 feet to the north. That allows tower support columns be installed between tracks 1 & 2 for the support columns. So initially track 1 will be cut for the column with 3 being the thru route.

Then 1 will be moved north to cross the swing bridge's outer track (3). After the north lift bridge is complete both 1 & 3 will be aligned and altitude somewhat raised to cross the lift bridge.

The repeat for tracks 2 & 4 with them moved south to allow for new support column next to north lift bridge's support column. All this while keeping all construction clear of snagging anything on the swing bridge. Everything on the new lift bridges constructions has to not interfeer with operation of swing bridge. That is one reason that the new track alignment will be higher elevation than swing bridge.crossing.

CONFUSED ???
 

John819

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The problem at Walk is that the swing bridge is being replaced with 2 separate lift bridges. That requires tracks 1 and 3 to be moved approximately 15 feet to the north. That allows tower support columns be installed between tracks 1 & 2 for the support columns. So initially track 1 will be cut for the column with 3 being the thru route.

Then 1 will be moved north to cross the swing bridge's outer track (3). After the north lift bridge is complete both 1 & 3 will be aligned and altitude somewhat raised to cross the lift bridge.

The repeat for tracks 2 & 4 with them moved south to allow for new support column next to north lift bridge's support column. All this while keeping all construction clear of snagging anything on the swing bridge. Everything on the new lift bridges constructions has to not interfeer with operation of swing bridge. That is one reason that the new track alignment will be higher elevation than swing bridge.crossing.

CONFUSED ???
And there are more bridges between Greenwich and New Haven that will need work in the next two decades to keep the trains running.
 

west point

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And there are more bridges between Greenwich and New Haven that will need work in the next two decades to keep the trains running.
That is quite true. Have lost count but there are at least 4 more to replace. Some with dual lift bridges and some with dual Bascule bridges. Each bridge that can be raised to give more clear freeboard when in closed position means fewer openings. Even Brightline is doing that.
 
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John819

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The really hard one to fix is COB in Greenwich. This is on the most heavily used trackage for the New Haven line and also there will be angry rich boaters to protest any restrictions on use of the channel. And the NIMBY, BANANA, and environmental crazies will be out in full force.
 

Acela150

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The really hard one to fix is COB in Greenwich. This is on the most heavily used trackage for the New Haven line and also there will be angry rich boaters to protest any restrictions on use of the channel. And the NIMBY, BANANA, and environmental crazies will be out in full force.

I got a slight chuckle out of this because it's so true. :oops:
 

jis

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Nice article in WaPo on Avelia Liberty

imrs.php


 

John Santos

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There will not be 4 unimpedied tracks New Rochelle <> New haven until at least year 2050. All the moveable bridges being replaced are going to restrict MNRR tracks to 3 and for short times of 2 - 3 months will be just 2 tracks across the moveable bridge location. That is for the new north lift bridge. Walk bridge is now just 3 tracks and will be just 2 sometime late 2023 or 2024. Then starts over when building the south lift bridge..
That will only affect a few miles before the particular bridge being reconstructed until the next crossover after the bridge. Or is every single bridge between New Rochelle and New Haven going to be restricted to 2 tracks for the next 28 years?
 

GDRRiley

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Also extra height cars. I suspect FRA would allow higher cant deficiency in segregated passenger lines where freight trains are not permitted but that precludes doing so on most of NEC.
I think CAHSR has proved that incorrect, FRA is super conservative and seems unlikely to change in the near term. While the geometry is built to US standards for 250mph, in Europe that would be fine for closer to 300mph.
They took years to accept that buff strength was flawed and that CEM was important. Getting euro rolling stock was equally a long fight
 

GDRRiley

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I have not been following what is happening with cant deficiency on California HSR. How much is the maximum being used?
compare to Shinkansen which allows superelevation 7in upto 7 7/8in (not clear when) and 4 3/8in of unbanaced which allows a combine 11.4-12.2in

TM 2.1.2
The exception is others norms

1663891845361.png

Which then gets us this table.
1663892197079.png
 

west point

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That will only affect a few miles before the particular bridge being reconstructed until the next crossover after the bridge. Or is every single bridge between New Rochelle and New Haven going to be restricted to 2 tracks for the next 28 years?
If there was just one bridge track shut down delays would not be too disrupting. However there will be unplanned delays that will muck up especially if they come in between the CPs either side of bridge replacements.

So that is a wrong conclusion. For the Walk bridge replacement this is what is occurring. East of the present swing bridge a new CP is being built. That is so normally west bound trains on local track 3 (outer track ) and express track 1 can be switched onto track 2 ( south inner express track ) .

Once construction on the new lift bridge starts the south columns of the north bridge will occupy the present location of track 1 both sides of the present swing bridge. There fore only track 3 will be able to be used crossing the swing bridge. There will be a long time of only three tracks crossing making it a choke point. The north columns will be built at least 15 feet north of the present track 3 footprint.

Once all the bridge work is almost complete track 3 will be closed as well making the location a major choke point. On either side of of the waterways tracks 1 and 3 will be raised and moved northward to meet alignments of new north lift bridge. The approaches will meet the new higher freeboard clearances of the lift bridge. Also clear the swing bridge first to allow for the operating swing bridge CAT tracks 2 & 4 to clear. At same time all CAT for track 1 & 3 will be removed from swing bridge. Then the lift bridge can be lowered, tested, & certified for use allowing tracks 1 & 3 be used for regular service.

Then the swing bridge can be used under the north lift bridge. Next again the same procedure will have to be used to build the south lift bridge. So you have extended periods of only 3 tracks available over the bridge and periods of just 2 tracks available. What read on the EIS was 45 days anticipated for each 2 track closure. IMO that seems very optomistic even with 24/7 work. construction

Next you have all the other bridges being replaced the same way either lift or Bascule bridges probably one at time unless something happens to become an emergency. At best one at a time means year 2050 to have all 4 tracks available for scheduling purposes.
 
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