Acela Express Coach is missing

[NE933]

To add more revenue dollars to it's bottom line, and to loose its somewhat elitist stratospheric image, Amtrak should consider building at least one coach car for each of the 20 present trainsets, and to next generation equipment procurements that will seed Acela II.

But if I had my way, I would also do the following re-shape of Northeast Corridor trains on the basis that it makes sense:

- drop all of the confusing 'Business Class' names and configurations, and make those cars either 'Coach' or 'First Class'. In fact, lets sweep away the Firstclass name and go back to 'Club Car'. It has a spiffy ring to the way it sounds, making it attractive and identifyable with present young adults, and for those who go for classic stuff, it rings our bells as well.

- reap in additgional dollars on the deadbeat, off limits coach seats that stay empty while receiving passengers only the the NEC portion. For those who are not aware, for example: the NY to Florida Silver Star fills up on a receive passengers only protocol NY to DC. The first of usually four coaches right behind the Cafe fills up first, followed by the second, and so on. The problem is that the third and fourth coach travels empty for most of the entire segment, until enough people get on later down the line. Amtrak can improve yield by carrying short distance passengers traveling only between NY to DC in the empty rear cars, and then by the time they're all gone in Washington, a quick clean up by the crew during the 30 min. engine change has the car in good enough shape for the long distance folks. As new Viewliners capable of 120mph come online, the trains can be speeded up so that running times will match the regionals. Passengers have more choice, Amtrak gets more income by wisely using existing resources.

- as more capital money and new equipment arrives (which I know is optimistic), retrofit the enitre Keystone service with today's original Acela rollingstock. they can run faster, make Philly turning easier, and can further upgrade the line's reputation.

- and finally, get rid of the bland, castrated 'Northeast Regional' name and go back to the classic Pennsy names such as 'Congressional', 'Bankers', 'Patriot', or even: *Metroliner*. Upgrade the cafe's menu to something else besides sandwiches and pizza.

rje

 

[Train2104]

Amtrak eliminated coach from Acela for a reason - they didn't want the image of "coach". Acela Business is really coach seating. As for long-distance trains carrying local NEC passengers, Amtrak doesn't want someone riding NYP-WAS taking up space and preventing an NYP-ORL passenger from taking the train, hence a net revenue loss. If necessary, they could open it up 7 days before train departure, when most long distance customers would have already reserved. That minimizes losses/maximizes revenue.

 

[the_traveler]

- drop all of the confusing 'Business Class' names and configurations, and make those cars either 'Coach' or 'First Class'. In fact, lets sweep away the Firstclass name and go back to 'Club Car'. It has a spiffy ring to the way it sounds, making it attractive and identifyable with present young adults, and for those who go for classic stuff, it rings our bells as well.

While I somewhat agree with what you are saying, I agree about Acela Business Class differentiates it from Regional coach. However I do not agree that Regional BC should be called "First Class"!

I can hear the complaints not! Someone who rode on Acela First Class complains "Where's my meal?" or saying "Why can't I wait in the Club Acela in BOS/NYP/PHL/WAS? I have a First Class ticket!" And to call it a "Club Car" to make it "attractive and identifyable with present young adults", I think young adults not familiar with the term from railroads of days past might think of "Club" as in "Bar" car. They would then complain "Where's the bar?" and finding out there is none, chose not to ride Amtrak anymore!

 

[saxman]

To add more revenue dollars to it's bottom line, and to loose its somewhat elitist stratospheric image, Amtrak should consider building at least one coach car for each of the 20 present trainsets, and to next generation equipment procurements that will seed Acela II.

But if I had my way, I would also do the following re-shape of Northeast Corridor trains on the basis that it makes sense:

- drop all of the confusing 'Business Class' names and configurations, and make those cars either 'Coach' or 'First Class'. In fact, lets sweep away the Firstclass name and go back to 'Club Car'. It has a spiffy ring to the way it sounds, making it attractive and identifyable with present young adults, and for those who go for classic stuff, it rings our bells as well.

What's so confusing about Business Class vs. First Class? As The Traveler said, there does need to be a distinction between Acela's First and the higher class of service on the Regional trains.

- reap in additgional dollars on the deadbeat, off limits coach seats that stay empty while receiving passengers only the the NEC portion. For those who are not aware, for example: the NY to Florida Silver Star fills up on a receive passengers only protocol NY to DC. The first of usually four coaches right behind the Cafe fills up first, followed by the second, and so on. The problem is that the third and fourth coach travels empty for most of the entire segment, until enough people get on later down the line. Amtrak can improve yield by carrying short distance passengers traveling only between NY to DC in the empty rear cars, and then by the time they're all gone in Washington, a quick clean up by the crew during the 30 min. engine change has the car in good enough shape for the long distance folks. As new Viewliners capable of 120mph come online, the trains can be speeded up so that running times will match the regionals. Passengers have more choice, Amtrak gets more income by wisely using existing resources.

Again, this is what the Regionals and Acela is for. Keep those seats open so people that want to travel further down the line will have a seat at a decent price. You don't want to delay the train either with local passengers getting on and off when they can just as easily take the local. The cost of dragging an empty car is really neglagable in the grand scheme of things.

- and finally, get rid of the bland, castrated 'Northeast Regional' name and go back to the classic Pennsy names such as 'Congressional', 'Bankers', 'Patriot', or even: *Metroliner*. Upgrade the cafe's menu to something else besides sandwiches and pizza.
rje

Why make things more confusing for trains running the same route? I'm in to the nolstagia of many train names as any one else here, but is it really needed?

 

[NE933]

What I meant for Business Class is to eliminate it from the Regionals and convert those Amfleet I cars, some to Club Cars but most to coach. And as for carrying short distance passengers on Lond distance trains, I already mentioned of the idea to put them in coaches that have not been filled up yet, thereby no interference or sacrificing long distance revenue by people traveling, say, NY to Philly. The concept is to wring out more money by putting train travelers in empty seats ONLY for the part of the trip in which that Amfleet II coach is empty. Conductors usually fill up seats on long distance runs one car at a time. Any wise observer on the Florida runs knows that of the 4 coaches, only three, sometimes two, are at capacity by the time we reach DC. If Amtrak uses yield marketing to fill these empty seats with NY to DC travelers, everyone gets a win-win. Since these empty seats are created mainly for those boarding in Virginia and south. This is done on the South end of the route, where somebody from Miami decides to go only so far as Orlando. So I don't see the confusion, other than maybe I didn't make clear before.

 

[Ryan]

They all sound like solutions in search of a problem to me. There's already plenty of capacity on the corridor, there isn't any reason to carry shorts between NYP and WAS when there are already dozens of other trains available.

 

[Trogdor]

They all sound like solutions in search of a problem to me. There's already plenty of capacity on the corridor, there isn't any reason to carry shorts between NYP and WAS when there are already dozens of other trains available.

I agree. Unless the Regional service in the time slots surrounding the LD trains are frequently sold out, selling corridor tickets on LD trains will only take that revenue away from other service. Besides, corridor passengers are used to standing anywhere on the platform and boarding any car on the train. If you start telling them that they have to sit in certain cars (to preserve the loading plan for the LD passengers), they'll probably only get upset about it.

Others have already noted that Acela Business Class is really coach. I'll agree that there are too many different definitions of "Business Class" on Amtrak, and the service needs to be consistent across routes. However, even if Acela Business Class were true "business" class in some way, what would be the point of adding *one* coach class car to the train? I figure you very well could see extra cars added to the Acelas at some point in the future, but it won't be a third class of service.

Different train names: pointless idea. Only the foamers would care. Everyone else would just get confused.

I think there are some low-level platforms on the Keystone route. Therefore, Acelas couldn't serve there, as they do not have steps that allow boarding/alighting from low-level platforms. Keystones and Regionals will be equipped with the next generation of single-level coach cars, whenever they get ordered and delivered.

 

[rrdude]

Different train names: pointless idea. Only the foamers would care. Everyone else would just get confused.

Trog, on this one I have to disagree with you. BUT, but, it would only work if it were "marketed" by train names, and there was a REASON to take the Minuteman vs. the Congressional, vs. the Banker. (club Car, Slumbercoach, something)

I think Amtrak missed the mark by choosing a GENERIC name for all trains falling under the "Regional" moniker. However, given the time that they HAVE traveled under that name, the public IS now educated to the difference between the "Regionals" and the "Acela". The distinction does get a little muddier though, when the "Regionals" start traveling further and further south of WAS, a la this poster's favorite little train, the "Lynchburger".

Granted, it would be an uphill battle to change some/all trains to "named trains" again. But if Amtrak can successfully come up with a method of differentiating some of the Regionals, I think naming them again is a great marketing idea.

"What's old is new again"

 

[Ryan]

I agree that having "regional" trains that may terminate in WAS, Newport News or Lynchburg.

If I were the King of Amtrak, the Lynchburger would certainly be a named train, since it's the only one that goes there.

The NPN trains would probably be named too, with some type of theme to the name perhaps "Virginia Gentleman", "Virginia Flyer", "Virginia SomethingElse", etc... (I'm sure someone more creative then I could come up with better names).

I think that there are so many WAS-NYP / WAS-BOS trains that naming could get unwieldy...

 

[Oldsmoboi]

Acela already has a whole train of coach class cars. Look for it on the schedule under "North East Regional". Times aren't remarkably different between NYP and PHL or even NYP and WAS.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

The Acela is a marketing ploy more than anything practical. It's nice, it's sleek, and it looks like its going 150mph even when stopped. Most of the Acela's reduced running time is because of its Express status, that is skipping many stops.

I like the idea of going back to names, but only in a limited application. 66/67 the "Night Owl", NPN trains could also be the "Newsman" :lol: but for BOS-WAS trains, Regionals seem to suit me just fine.

 

[amamba]

It is true that there isn't that much time saved on the acela. I think it only shaves 30 minutes off the time from NYP - PVD, for example, over the regional.

I see no point in adding coach to the acela.

As for eliminating BC from the NE regionals, there really isn't much of a difference between it and coach to begin with (the half size warm soda, anyone?). If anything, amtrak is making buckets of money off selling BC on the NE regionals so I don't see any incentive for them to discontinue the service.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

People buy BC to be "in Business Class", Amtrak's got the perfect setup.

The last time I flew (on a last minute emergency) from CAK to LGA there were people waiting in line at the boarding gate for $49 upgrades to BC for a one-hour flight (from gears up to down). They sold out that entire section on a 717, and there were still a half-dozen open seats in coach. I'm not quite sure what that upgrade did for them, we all got soda and crackers, a bathroom and a SkyMall... even in coach.

 

[amamba]

People buy BC to be "in Business Class", Amtrak's got the perfect setup.

The last time I flew (on a last minute emergency) from CAK to LGA there were people waiting in line at the boarding gate for $49 upgrades to BC for a one-hour flight (from gears up to down). They sold out that entire section on a 717, and there were still a half-dozen open seats in coach. I'm not quite sure what that upgrade did for them, we all got soda and crackers, a bathroom and a SkyMall... even in coach.

Depending on the airline, they avoided the dreaded middle seat and got a wider seat with a better armrest by sitting in BC. I would pay $49 - in a heartbeat - for an upgrade to BC on most domestic airlines, even for a one hour flight. And possibly free drinks.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I like named trains, but named trains need to be different from the average regional train. Pennsy ran plenty of NY-WAS trains that had no name. They all died on A-day.

I would call them:

NYP-WAS trains: New York Regional

BOS-WAS trains: Boston Regional

SPG-WAS trains: Discontinued.

BOS-SPG-WAS trains: Inland Regional

RVR bound trains: Tidewater Regional

NPN trains: Name them.

Fact of the matter is, the regionals aren't specially differentiated.

Septa names some trains- anyone know that? But only the outer-reach engine-hauled super expresses, such as the Great Valley Flyer. But its different from all the other Septa MU locals running on that route.

 

[jis]

People buy BC to be "in Business Class", Amtrak's got the perfect setup.

The last time I flew (on a last minute emergency) from CAK to LGA there were people waiting in line at the boarding gate for $49 upgrades to BC for a one-hour flight (from gears up to down). They sold out that entire section on a 717, and there were still a half-dozen open seats in coach. I'm not quite sure what that upgrade did for them, we all got soda and crackers, a bathroom and a SkyMall... even in coach.

Depending on the airline, they avoided the dreaded middle seat and got a wider seat with a better armrest by sitting in BC. I would pay $49 - in a heartbeat - for an upgrade to BC on most domestic airlines, even for a one hour flight. And possibly free drinks.

OK, so we are talking about AirTran which appears to be the only airline that offers non-stop service CAK to LGA. Here is what you get in their Business Class (incidentally one of the very few that offer domestic Business Class):

Stretch out in two-by-two seats that offer

* more legroom

* more room in the seat

* and all the room your elbows could ever want

You'll also enjoy these benefits that will upgrade your travel experience.

* first and second checked bag fees waived

* priority boarding so you're on and off the plane first

* complimentary cocktails

Given that, yes, in all cases I'd buy an upgrade for $49 in a flash if offered. A couple of beers and a couple of checked bags should cover the cost

 

[amamba]

Yes for airtran and those amenities mentioned, buying an upgrade for me would easily work out on the dollar side. For $49 I would be able to check a bag (value approx. $25), get two cocktail (approx value $18-20), plus not feel like people are encroaching on my space (priceless).

 

[Gratt]

Yes for airtran and those amenities mentioned, buying an upgrade for me would easily work out on the dollar side. For $49 I would be able to check a bag (value approx. $25), get two cocktail (approx value $18-20), plus not feel like people are encroaching on my space (priceless).

I have flown airtran a few times, aside from the annoyance of transferring in Atlanta I have found it a good airline for the price. Though I would not get too comfortable with that $49 upgrade. They were recently purchased by SouthWest, in 2-3 years it looks like the only place to get a big comfy seat for cheap will be Amtrak again

 

[Anthony]

It is true that there isn't that much time saved on the acela. I think it only shaves 30 minutes off the time from NYP - PVD, for example, over the regional.

I see no point in adding coach to the acela.

As for eliminating BC from the NE regionals, there really isn't much of a difference between it and coach to begin with (the half size warm soda, anyone?). If anything, amtrak is making buckets of money off selling BC on the NE regionals so I don't see any incentive for them to discontinue the service.

There is a bit more legroom in Regional BC. For a long trip, it's totally worth it, soda or not. In Regional coach, if you're tall, the person in front of you will crush your knees every time they recline.

(And I'm not including the 15-seat Club Dinette cars with 1-2 seating, which are superior but also referred to as simple business class.)

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

People buy BC to be "in Business Class", Amtrak's got the perfect setup.

The last time I flew (on a last minute emergency) from CAK to LGA there were people waiting in line at the boarding gate for $49 upgrades to BC for a one-hour flight (from gears up to down). They sold out that entire section on a 717, and there were still a half-dozen open seats in coach. I'm not quite sure what that upgrade did for them, we all got soda and crackers, a bathroom and a SkyMall... even in coach.

Depending on the airline, they avoided the dreaded middle seat and got a wider seat with a better armrest by sitting in BC. I would pay $49 - in a heartbeat - for an upgrade to BC on most domestic airlines, even for a one hour flight. And possibly free drinks.

OK, so we are talking about AirTran which appears to be the only airline that offers non-stop service CAK to LGA. Here is what you get in their Business Class (incidentally one of the very few that offer domestic Business Class):

Given that, yes, in all cases I'd buy an upgrade for $49 in a flash if offered. A couple of beers and a couple of checked bags should cover the cost

I suppose so, yes, though it should be noted that AirTran offers one free bag, so to say "first and second" is kind of misleading. Though, I suppose if put that way it might be worth it. The cab ride from LGA to the MN station in Harlem (I was heading to Yonkers) would have canceled that savings out though, as I would have just spent 2.25 on my MetroCard to get from NYP to NYG.

AirTran is a nice little airline, they are the primary reason CAK still operates at the capacity it does-- their pricing is fair too, as I only paid $137 for coach to LGA at the counter. Let me repeat that, I paid $137 at the counter two hours before departure.

 

[Anderson]

I like named trains, but named trains need to be different from the average regional train. Pennsy ran plenty of NY-WAS trains that had no name. They all died on A-day.

I would call them:

NYP-WAS trains: New York Regional

BOS-WAS trains: Boston Regional

SPG-WAS trains: Discontinued.

BOS-SPG-WAS trains: Inland Regional

RVR bound trains: Tidewater Regional

NPN trains: Name them.

Fact of the matter is, the regionals aren't specially differentiated.

Septa names some trains- anyone know that? But only the outer-reach engine-hauled super expresses, such as the Great Valley Flyer. But its different from all the other Septa MU locals running on that route.

I'd like to see someone try marketing the "Discontinued"...

 

[the_traveler]

I'd like to see someone try marketing the "Discontinued"...

That's the sister train of "Service Disruption"!

 

[AlanB]

- drop all of the confusing 'Business Class' names and configurations, and make those cars either 'Coach' or 'First Class'. In fact, lets sweep away the Firstclass name and go back to 'Club Car'. It has a spiffy ring to the way it sounds, making it attractive and identifyable with present young adults, and for those who go for classic stuff, it rings our bells as well.

Club car is too confusing IMHO. What I'd do is stick with the current class names on Acela and rename business class on the Regionals back to its original name, Custom Class, so as to avoid confusion with Acela Business.

- reap in additgional dollars on the deadbeat, off limits coach seats that stay empty while receiving passengers only the the NEC portion. For those who are not aware, for example: the NY to Florida Silver Star fills up on a receive passengers only protocol NY to DC. The first of usually four coaches right behind the Cafe fills up first, followed by the second, and so on. The problem is that the third and fourth coach travels empty for most of the entire segment, until enough people get on later down the line. Amtrak can improve yield by carrying short distance passengers traveling only between NY to DC in the empty rear cars, and then by the time they're all gone in Washington, a quick clean up by the crew during the 30 min. engine change has the car in good enough shape for the long distance folks. As new Viewliners capable of 120mph come online, the trains can be speeded up so that running times will match the regionals. Passengers have more choice, Amtrak gets more income by wisely using existing resources.

In addition to the many other good reasons that other's have provided for why this cannot happen, the simple reality is that Amtrak can't do it. Limitations with ARROW would prevent Amtrak from even considering this idea. ARROW would happily sell more seats than exist in those two cars, meaning that conductors would have to seat those people in the other two coaches. That of course also means that now those seats can't be sold to someone going from NY to Florida or other points south of DC.

ARROW doesn't know how to only sell the 59 seats in one car between certain destinations. This is the reason that the Empire Builder, Lake Shore, and the Eagle all have multiple train numbers. If you tell ARROW that the train had 4 coaches, it will sell those seats to anyone between any two points on the run. You can't tell ARROW to stop selling NYP to WAS after the 118 seats in the two cars you say are empty, after all 118 are sold. It will just keep selling still more seats in the other two cars.

The same thing happens with the other trains that I mentioned. If Amtrak told ARROW that train #7 had 5 coaches, it would not know how to deal with the fact that two coaches go to Portland. If enough people brought tickets to Seattle to fill up the 3 coaches that do go to Seattle, ARROW would then sell the next person asking for a seat to Seattle, a seat in the coach car going to Portland. And now Amtrak would have a big problem and an angry customer.

So they have to use two different numbers so that ARROW understands that it can't sell a Seattle bound passenger a ticket in a Portland coach or sleeper for that matter.

- as more capital money and new equipment arrives (which I know is optimistic), retrofit the enitre Keystone service with today's original Acela rollingstock. they can run faster, make Philly turning easier, and can further upgrade the line's reputation.

I'm not sure that there will be enough life left in the Acela sets by the time they could actually be freed up for such use. The platform issue mentioned by other's can easily be solved by just building high level plats though.

- and finally, get rid of the bland, castrated 'Northeast Regional' name and go back to the classic Pennsy names such as 'Congressional', 'Bankers', 'Patriot', or even: *Metroliner*. Upgrade the cafe's menu to something else besides sandwiches and pizza.

No point. Just a waste of money and it just creates confusion for people.

I do agree to some extent that perhaps some difference in names should be made for trains that run south of DC.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I don't have any concept of "club car" so I agree with those who say it won't help to name it that. I also don't think renaming generic trains is all that useful beyond a nostalgic throwback. As for Arrow, I really think it's time for Amtrak to either update it or replace it. Although their seriously botched migration of AGR hopefully taught them a few lessons about pre-deployment testing and verification. Hopefully.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I actually like the Northeast Regional monicker. That said, I do miss The Night Owl. Such great visualization in a name. I once took the sleeper on it that went WAS to NYP. It was great. Fell asleep in New Jersey and did not even wake up when we got uncoupled at NYP. Not a bad night's sleep all in all. Woke up to coffee and a tasteless continental breakfast, so went out for a bagel afterwards. The SCA who served us (me and my wife) dubbed it "The Subway Hotel" which I still think is pretty humorous.

With the expanding service south of WAS I could see differentiating the trains to make it clearer where there final destination is.