Acela ride: Disappointment and bribing

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I see absolutely nothing wrong with using the Red Cap system to get a leg up on boarding; that's why it is there in the first place! For me it is well worth a Fiver to get ahead of the masses.
That's not why red caps are there. They are there to provide assistance to those who need help in boarding (due to trouble walking, too much luggage, kids, etc.). It's not there to be simply a pay-for-priority-boarding service.
The last time this debate raged, I don't think that anyone was able to point to anything in writing to support that point.
This is what Amtrak says:

Red Cap - Free Baggage Handling Service

In addition to self-service handcarts in a number of Amtrak stations, you can count on uniformed Red Caps to provide free baggage-handling assistance at many major stations. We recommend that you accept assistance from only uniformed Red Cap agents. All baggage handled by Red Cap is protected by a claim check.

The Red Cap assistance service is offered at the following major stations for free:

  • Baltimore, MD
  • Boston, MA (South Station)
  • Chicago, IL
  • Los Angeles, CA
  • New Haven, CT
  • New York, NY
  • Newark, NJ
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Portland, OR
  • Seattle, WA
  • Washington, DC
  • Wilmington, DE
Amtrak Baggage Services
 
The Shinkansen offers 6 cars of unreserved seats. This would be like the Surfliner where you're not guaranteed a seat - generally not a problem though unless it's a holiday. Then there are 10 cars of reserved seats - seats assigned (including three Green, or First Class cars). The unreserved tickets are the cheapest (same price for everyone - no buckets), reserved tickets coach are nominally higher (like $10), then first class doubles the cost.

If you plan ahead, generally not a problem getting the seat you want. Not available? Try a train before or after (+/- 15 minutes). Not the best for your needs? Try unreserved.

My family had no problem getting four reserved seats (two rows of two on the same side, day before travel), flipped one around for club seating and we enjoyed our 3 hour ride.

Problem is that there are so few options available on Acela because of its small size that they take the Southwest Airlines approach and basically let it be a first come first serve (Which Southwest now charges people for the priviledge of being "first" - oh, kinda like paying off a redcap).
 
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I see absolutely nothing wrong with using the Red Cap system to get a leg up on boarding; that's why it is there in the first place! For me it is well worth a Fiver to get ahead of the masses.
In other countries they don't force you to line up like toddlers in kindergarten. Thus, nobody has to wait or cut or bribe anyone. But I guess if Amtrak is all you've ever known then there's nothing wrong with creating an artificial need to bribe your way to the front of the pack. I will say that it is a little odd to be criticized about bribery from an expat who hails from one of the most corrupt bureaucracies on the planet, but I guess that's what happens when you stray a little too far from the high road.
 
The assigned seats will never return in the corridor. It was such a logistical nightmare in F/C, that to try and apply it to the whole train would create a meltdown.
Who said the whole train? How about two Business Class cars and half the First Class car with assigned seats, and the rest of the train open seating? Charge $5 for assigned seats. I'd gladly pay.
Even this idea creates an increased potential for conflict. In just the F/C car, the attendants spent (wasted) alot of time policeing/arguing with people who did not want/would not sit in their "assigned seat" because there was a "better" seat elsewhere in the car. They would refuse to sit in their assigned seat, the next stop the person boards to find "someone" in "their" assigned seat, etc. It was a constant "no win" situation. The attendants/conductors were constantly in battle with Pax.
The problem with assigned seating in FC was two-fold in my opinion.

First, too many people were used to the Metroliner practice of "just grab a seat."

Second, Amtrak did a very poor job of advertising the fact that they were assigning seats. There was no serious advertising at the time warning that this was coming. Additionally, they made things worse by automatically assigning a seat if you didn't pick one yourself. This surprised too many people who didn't even realize that they actually had an assigned seats.

Amtrak needed to make things more clear with some advanced warning on the Metroliner service that this was coming. Maybe even having attendants in Metro First make an announcement on each run that assigned seating would be coming to Acela for a couple of months prior to the start of service.

People don't like change; especially when its a surprise.

One final thought, I suspect that a bit of the problem was also due to tables being in the mix and backwards seating being in the mix. If all seats had faced forward and there were no tables, I suspect that the problems would have been far more limited than they were. This is one reason that assigned seating in BC might actually work better, with proper warning, as there aren't as many tables and almost all seats face forward, unlike in the FC car.
 
I see absolutely nothing wrong with using the Red Cap system to get a leg up on boarding; that's why it is there in the first place! For me it is well worth a Fiver to get ahead of the masses.
That's not why red caps are there. They are there to provide assistance to those who need help in boarding (due to trouble walking, too much luggage, kids, etc.). It's not there to be simply a pay-for-priority-boarding service.
The last time this debate raged, I don't think that anyone was able to point to anything in writing to support that point.
This is what Amtrak says:
Well, yes. That's one piece of the puzzle. Conspicuously absent is the statement that Red Caps are available to help the mobility impaired (which I'm sure is out there somewhere). Also conspicuously absent is any statement that Red Caps are there *solely* for the use of those two groups of people (and despite all the complaining of the no "bribe" crowd, I'm pretty sure that it doesn't exist).
 
In other countries they don't force you to line up like toddlers in kindergarten. Thus, nobody has to wait or cut or bribe anyone. But I guess if Amtrak is all you've ever known then there's nothing wrong with creating an artificial need to bribe your way to the front of the pack. I will say that it is a little odd to be criticized about bribery from an expat who hails from one of the most corrupt bureaucracies on the planet, but I guess that's what happens when you stray a little too far from the high road.
No one is forced to "line up." American's just seem to chose to do that. I see people start lining up in Boston for trains 20 minutes before the gate is even announced. Granted in Boston it is often easy to figure out what track your train will be on. But they do it in DC too. No one from Amtrak comes along as says "Ok, form a line now." People decide to stand up and start the line sometimes 30 minutes before the train is to board.

And it's not like Amtrak could just throw open the gate and let them out early, because their train isn't even there. In fact, there are times that a commuter train is busy boarding on the very same platform.

Up in NY, things are even worse. But NYP is a special case, there is no way to change that one at all.
 
Only at some major stations (but not all) do you do the "kindergarten walk". (PHL is one of the exceptions because you wait on the platform even before the train arrives.) Even in LAX, where there is a line, I've never waited in it. I walk down the tunnel, find the sign for the train and wait on the platform.

At my home station of KIN, which can see 20-50 people boarding each train, you wait on the platform. This is true even at PVD, RTE and BBY.
 
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In other countries they don't force you to line up like toddlers in kindergarten. Thus, nobody has to wait or cut or bribe anyone. But I guess if Amtrak is all you've ever known then there's nothing wrong with creating an artificial need to bribe your way to the front of the pack. I will say that it is a little odd to be criticized about bribery from an expat who hails from one of the most corrupt bureaucracies on the planet, but I guess that's what happens when you stray a little too far from the high road.
No one is forced to "line up." American's just seem to chose to do that. I see people start lining up in Boston for trains 20 minutes before the gate is even announced. Granted in Boston it is often easy to figure out what track your train will be on. But they do it in DC too. No one from Amtrak comes along as says "Ok, form a line now." People decide to stand up and start the line sometimes 30 minutes before the train is to board.

And it's not like Amtrak could just throw open the gate and let them out early, because their train isn't even there. In fact, there are times that a commuter train is busy boarding on the very same platform.

Up in NY, things are even worse. But NYP is a special case, there is no way to change that one at all.
Heck, even the six of us boarding in CLE always line up at the door. :giggle: Our kindergarten lessons were well learned in Ohio :p
 
Only at some major stations (but not all) do you do the "kindergarten walk". (PHL is one of the exceptions because you wait on the platform even before the train arrives.) Even in LAX, where there is a line, I've never waited in it. I walk down the tunnel, find the sign for the train and wait on the platform.

At my home station of KIN, which can see 20-50 people boarding each train, you wait on the platform. This is true even at PVD, RTE and BBY.
No lines at WIL either. Just go up to the platform whenever your ready.
 
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Though true they may not say "OK, Form a line now", you can't access the platform in DC, Chicago and LA (from my experience) until they open the doors. The one who opens the door is the one that makes the announcement that people fall in line to. Try to jump ahead of that crowd.

So, though perhaps not "officially", there is quite the queueing and "kindergarten walk" that is associated with long distance train travel in the US. In Tokyo Station, no one cares how long I loiter on the platform, snapping pictures, buying from the kiosk or vending machines before my train arrives. My ticket tells me my car and seat number. Plenty of signs pointing to where I need to stand, and don't even need an announcement - if my train leaves at 12:15, I'll start walking to my boarding location at 12:00. If the train is about to leave and I'm 5 cars away from where I need to be, I board and walk inside the train to my car. No biggie.

Solutions:

1) Reliable signage on the platform identifying where each car will stop

2) Reliable timekeeping so that you know which train is yours

3) Mixture of unreserved, reserved, first class (or business) seating

4) Communication, communication, communication!

One of the problems with this approach, however, is the multitude of different equipment that share the same platforms. Do the Acela trainsets even get their own exclusive platforms?
 
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We'll just have to agree to disagree. Though true they may not say "OK, Form a line now", you can't access the platform in DC, Chicago and LA (from my experience) until they open the doors.
There are no doors to the platform in LA. You can access any platform from either end of the tunnel, or from the walkway at the end of the tracks.
 
So, though perhaps not "officially", there is quite the queueing and "kindergarten walk" that is associated with long distance train travel in the US.
I would say that the "kindergarten walk" is associated with corridor travel far more than it is with LD travel, considering the stations that have access controls to the platform (WAS, PHL, NYP, BOS, CHI, PDX(?), ???).
 
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IMO not really that Big of a deal! You were taking a short Joy Ride on Acela in Biz Class, which everyone that hasnt yet done this should try, one woman was assisted to a Biz Class Car by a Red Cap, which is his job! (Red caps are Amtrak Employees but are not paid like Agents and OBS, thus depend on tips for their living) As Alan said, First Class Pax get to jump the line while the Agent checks the unwashed masses tickets @ the Gate! As lots of our Members and Guests have said, Acela probably isnt worth the difference in Price over a Regional unless someone else is paying (ie business or write off or you are rich and have money to burn!) or the Regional has higher Buckets than the Acela which does happen!

Bribe is too harsh a word, in Politics it's called "Campaign Contributions", Schools and Governments call it "Fees" and @ Churches it's "Tithing!" As weve had said many times on these threads, as long as it's not Illegal or Denies Someone in Need Assistance, there's nothing wrong with Utilizing the Existing System to your Advantage, that's the way of the World!! ;) (a good comparison would be Valet Parking versus Finding a Spot a few Blocks away! :giggle: )
 
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The assigned seats will never return in the corridor. It was such a logistical nightmare in F/C, that to try and apply it to the whole train would create a meltdown.
One must not forget that when the assigned seating thing was introduced it was done in the most inept way possible, with no advance notice or training of the passengers through advertisements etc. It is as if the intention was for it to fail so that we could make statements like above pointing back to an utterly incomepetent act on part of management to justify the infeasiblity of something. Well the way to fix it is to first kick out the inept managers who did it the last time. i hope Emmett has taken care of that. So i believe there is every reason to give it anotehr try with a considerably larger amount of prep. no doubt it will be a bit more work for the on board service people, but that is one of the reasons they are there in the first place IMHO.
 
IMO not really that Big of a deal! You were taking a short Joy Ride on Acela in Biz Class, which everyone that hasnt yet done this should try, one woman was assisted to a Biz Class Car by a Red Cap, which is his job! (Red caps are Amtrak Employees but are not paid like Agents and OBS, thus depend on tips for their living) As Alan said, First Class Pax get to jump the line while the Agent checks the unwashed masses tickets @ the Gate! As lots of our Members and Guests have said, Acela probably isnt worth the difference in Price over a Regional unless someone else is paying (ie business or write off or you are rich and have money to burn!) or the Regional has higher Buckets than the Acela which does happen!

Bribe is too harsh a word, in Politics it's called "Campaign Contributions", Schools and Governments call it "Fees" and @ Churches it's "Tithing!" As weve had said many times on these threads, as long as it's not Illegal or Denies Someone in Need Assistance, there's nothing wrong with Utilizing the Existing System to your Advantage, that's the way of the World!! ;)
PERFECTLY SAID!
 
It is somewhat disingenous to say that no one asks anyone to line up at Boston. Indeed I believe that there would be much less lining up if Amtrak could catch up with the rest of the world, stop giving out silly excuses and actually provide real reserved assigned seats in at least part of the train. People line up to get good seats or be able to sit together and such, since they have no guarantee that they will unless they are ahead in the line. They play games with Red Caps for the same reason. It is just a self-created problem that could be substantially addressed very easily.

BTW Last weekend I had an incredible no waiting in line experience at Houston Intecontinental. Arrived at the airport 45 mins before the flight, walked straight through TSA Pre-Check, no wait, nothing to take off, just plopped bag on the X-Ray belt and walked through, and picked up the bag at the other end. Total lapsed time 30 secs. Then walked over to the gate where the plane was already boarding, so walked on with the crowd, doing the usual slow march through the jetway, and was in ky seat in no time. Of course there was no hurry since I knew exactly which seat I was in and I was not carrying my kitchen sink along with me so as to require excessive amount of storage space. Same experience at Newark on the way out, but I had arrived at the airport much earlier, so had time to get a drink before boarding the flight. Of course this was the air equivalent of getting a short ride on an Acela. it was my 787 round trip flight. The aircraft had been delivered 8 days back to United, and it was a wonderful flight, of course :)

If this Pre-Check thing takes off Amtrak's time advantage will go down considerably on the NEC, specially given the rather time consuming kindergarten marches involved.
 
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If this Pre-Check thing takes off Amtrak's time advantage will go down considerably on the NEC, specially given the rather time consuming kindergarten marches involved.
Agreed. Amtrak already advises getting to the station at least a half-hour early, 45 minutes or more if you want checked luggage or need help. (Even some smaller stations in the system, like Williston, ND, advise 45 minutes early for the train!) If I know I can get through airport security by showing up an hour before my flight, suddenly there's only a 15 minute wait time difference between train and plane.
 
Other stations with controlled access to platforms:

ATL, SEA (?)... I'm sure there are a few more...
While not exactly the same, in Texas El Paso and Temple have a Locked Gate where the Agent and or Conductor check tickets before Boarding, and in Austin and San Antonio, even though the Platform is "Open", you must line up under the "Canopy" and "The Red Poles" to have your Ticket and ID checked even if going in a Sleeper! I'm sure there are plenty of others that have the same MO!
 
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Yes even smaller stations advise 45 minutes before pear true, but that really is not necessary if you do not check bags.

Although I would not advise doing this on a regular basis, I once dropped my sister off near the platform and went to park the car. (I live near a semi small station.) Before I even parked the car, the train arrived! I made the train in time!
 
While not exactly the busiest station within Amtrak's system, Spokane is another station with limited access to tne platform. Passengers wait inside the station, have their tickets checked, and then head up the stairs or escalator to the platform. It's a good thing, too, as even in the hottest part of the summer, Spokane isn't exactly warm in the wee hours of the morning, when the EB boards.
 
Yes even smaller stations advise 45 minutes before pear true, but that really is not necessary if you do not check bags.

Although I would not advise doing this on a regular basis, I once dropped my sister off near the platform and went to park the car. (I live near a semi small station.) Before I even parked the car, the train arrived! I made the train in time!
Still, 30 minutes is probably too much. 15 minutes would be more than enough...maybe 5-10 minutes if you already have your ticket (with eTicketing, it's plenty possible to board a train without worrying about getting your ticket.)
 
So, though perhaps not "officially", there is quite the queueing and "kindergarten walk" that is associated with long distance train travel in the US. In Tokyo Station, no one cares how long I loiter on the platform, snapping pictures, buying from the kiosk or vending machines before my train arrives. My ticket tells me my car and seat number. Plenty of signs pointing to where I need to stand, and don't even need an announcement - if my train leaves at 12:15, I'll start walking to my boarding location at 12:00. If the train is about to leave and I'm 5 cars away from where I need to be, I board and walk inside the train to my car. No biggie.
Maybe they're just smarter over there, or better trained, or something, I don't know. But here in the US I see it happen all the time where people have no idea or clue that they've just boarded an Amtrak train, while holding a Metro North ticket or NJT ticket or MARC ticket, etc. This is one reason at the bigger stations that they do control platform access.

One of the problems with this approach, however, is the multitude of different equipment that share the same platforms. Do the Acela trainsets even get their own exclusive platforms?
Nope! DC probably comes the closest to having a dedicated platform, where generally the Acela's all leave from the same platform, the last one on the upper level on the east side of the station. But I have on occasion seen a Regional sitting there too.

But at all other stations, there is no such thing as a dedicated platform.
 
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Though true they may not say "OK, Form a line now", you can't access the platform in DC, Chicago and LA (from my experience) until they open the doors.
There are no doors to the platform in LA. You can access any platform from either end of the tunnel, or from the walkway at the end of the tracks.
There are doors at the west end of the tunnel before the tunnel. They are closed usually, but there are no doors on either side. We just walk down the tunnel and go out to the applicable platform about 15 minutes before departure. I have seen lines with an agent at the doors, but just ignored them.
 
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