AGR policy if sleepers turn into coach?

[crescent2]

I, along with at least two other very recent posters, am concerned about missed connections on AGR sleeper award trips. If Amtrak can't bus you to catch up with your train, it's my understanding they put you up in a hotel overnight and put you on the next day's train. However, sleepers often sell out on the most popular trains, so in that case, your sleeper award suddenly turns into coach travel. If it's an extended trip, you also miss all your other original connections, of course, as you are now a day late for all of them, so they, too, might turn into coach travel for the rest of your trip. Additionally, it's my understanding that you cannot cancel remaining segments of travel and get a points refund once travel has begun.

What is AGR's policy if that happens? Surely they don't keep all your points if you only traveled in sleepers for part of the way and coach the rest of the way? Do you still get meals at no charge in the dining car? If a sleeper is available for only a short stretch, do they let you occupy it for that period?

The trip I'm thinking of trying to do involves SIX connections to and from LD trains, so that's a bit scary. One layover (Portland, CS to EB) is very tight, and another fairly tight one (Chicago, EB to Card or CL) has a poor record of being made. The other connections are mostly 4-5 hr layovers, but I know delays of that length on LD trains aren't unheard of, either. Knowing AGR's policies would be helpful to me in deciding how to book this trip.

I understand that things beyond Amtrak's control cause missed connections, but AGR awards for extended trips in sleepers cost many, many points, and they are very difficult for me to accumulate. The thought of spending up to a week+ of "surprise" days in coach instead of the sleepers that were booked is bad enough, but to also lose all the points, not get meals, etc. would be a double whammy. Does anyone know what happens in these cases? Any ideas on how to avoid this situation? Thanks much-

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Crescent2, if you're not a risk taker, then maybe you should just use your points for shorter separate trips. You are over thinking all of this especially considering how most of yor points probably didn't COST you anything (only those that you paid cash for cost you $$).

 

[Rail Freak]

Crescent2, if you're not a risk taker, then maybe you should just use your points for shorter separate trips. You are over thinking all of this especially considering how most of yor points probably didn't COST you anything (only those that you paid cash for cost you $$).

I dont think it's so much of wasting points as it is of ending up in the middle of a LD Trip in coach rather than a sleeper that you had reserved!!! It would definitely turn an enjoyable experience into a NIGHTMARE!!!!! :angry:

 

[the_traveler]

I think if you're involuntary downgraded (you miss a connection and the next train has no rooms available, you will get meals included. However if you voluntarily downgrade yourself (you take the Crescent, Cardinal and CZ, but there are no rooms on the Cardinal so you chose to go coach instead), you will not get meals included on the Cardinal. Plus you will be charged for a sleeper for 2 zones, since you have a sleeper in 2 different zones.

The only way to get a voucher is to contact Customer Relations after the trip. It is very unlikely to receive points back.

 

[AlanB]

Crescent,

It's rare that one would get any points back for such a situation. However, as noted by the_traveler, you would still be entitled to your meals in the dining car. Additionally, once you return home speaking with a regular CS rep should get you a voucher good for future travel for 1 year as compensation for the missing sleepers.

 

[crescent2]

Crescent2, if you're not a risk taker, then maybe you should just use your points for shorter separate trips. You are over thinking all of this especially considering how most of yor points probably didn't COST you anything (only those that you paid cash for cost you $$).

I dont think it's so much of wasting points as it is of ending up in the middle of a LD Trip in coach rather than a sleeper that you had reserved!!! It would definitely turn an enjoyable experience into a NIGHTMARE!!!!! :angry:

RF, you are so right! And I'm so very glad your situation turned out so well! But this is a much longer trip, and I can't decide if counting on making six connections to and from LD trains for ten days is reasonable or foolhardy.

AB: I'm ok with taking risks on small things, but I'm less a risk taker on big things. First, I don't live near Amtrak routes, and getting enough points for this trip is very difficult for me. It will involve buying the max points for at least two years, and maybe three, so they're not free for me (and even if they were free, they are still valuable).

Of more concern, I know from experience that I won't sleep well in coach--never mind not having shower access or food should my sleeper reservations turn into coach. I can over-think things sometimes, but I think this trip warrants very careful planning. And IME, careful planning can often pay big dividends. This 10-day trip is a big deal to me, and I think reasonably so, considering the consequences of missed connections. RF put it plainer than I would have, but an unexpected week or more in coach when I'd planned on sleepers would be close to a nightmare after several days and sleepless nights. A lot would depend on whether it happened early or late into the trip. But it's not a minor consideration to me. Almost everyone here on AU seems to agree that having an attitude of not worrying about on-time performance helps greatly in enjoying travel on Amtrak. I've never been under a time crunch on Amtrak before, but on this trip, I would of necessity be.

Knowing AGR policy will help me in planning. Thanks-

Edit: Unfortunately, there aren't many shorter, separate trip options available to me, without flying in and out of distant cities. The Crescent is the only train within hundreds of miles of me.

 

[crescent2]

I think if you're involuntary downgraded (you miss a connection and the next train has no rooms available, you will get meals included. However if you voluntarily downgrade yourself (you take the Crescent, Cardinal and CZ, but there are no rooms on the Cardinal so you chose to go coach instead), you will not get meals included on the Cardinal. Plus you will be charged for a sleeper for 2 zones, since you have a sleeper in 2 different zones.
The only way to get a voucher is to contact Customer Relations after the trip. It is very unlikely to receive points back.

Thanks, traveler! I didn't understand what you mean by voluntarily downgrading myself. I can't think of any other choice except coach if there are no rooms available. I'm sure your post makes perfect sense to those more in the know, but please elaborate for me, thanks!

Crescent,
It's rare that one would get any points back for such a situation. However, as noted by the_traveler, you would still be entitled to your meals in the dining car. Additionally, once you return home speaking with a regular CS rep should get you a voucher good for future travel for 1 year as compensation for the missing sleepers.

Alan, thanks for this info! Getting meals, at least, would be a big benefit on a trip of this length. And getting a voucher would be better than not getting one!

Do you know if they would allow occupancy of a sleeper if it was only available for a short stretch mid trip? That would at least allow a shower, but they'd have to clean the room again.

 

[the_traveler]

You still would have access to food, both in the Dining Car and the café. You'll just have to pay for the meals.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Voluntarily downgrading per the_traveler means you had the option to get a sleeper on either the CL or the LSL but chose to take the Cardinal even though only coach was available. This is the next day trains since you missed your connection to the Cardinal.

 

[the_traveler]

crescent - I included an example of a voluntary downgrade in my post above. Just to make it a little clearer, say you have to be in Denver on a certain date, but the Cardinal does not have any rooms on the day you need it but the Crescent and CZ do. Thus you choose the 2 rooms and (since you have be there on a certain day) you go coach on the Cardinal. That would be a voluntary downgrade.

 

[crescent2]

You still would have access to food, both in the Dining Car and the café. You'll just have to pay for the meals.

I know I would have access to food, but to have to pay for up to 9 days' meals would be expensive! Especially when I've already "paid" for them with my points.

Alan thinks I would be provided meals. ??? I would think that, under the circumstances, Amtrak would at least provide the meals I'd be entitled to if I had the accommodations that I'd booked.

Voluntarily downgrading per the_traveler means you had the option to get a sleeper on either the CL or the LSL but chose to take the Cardinal even though only coach was available. This is the next day trains since you missed your connection to the Cardinal.

Thanks, AB!

 

[crescent2]

crescent - I included an example of a voluntary downgrade in my post above. Just to make it a little clearer, say you have to be in Denver on a certain date, but the Cardinal does not have any rooms on the day you need it but the Crescent and CZ do. Thus you choose the 2 rooms and (since you have be there on a certain day) you go coach on the Cardinal. That would be a voluntary downgrade.

I see now, thanks!

 

[pennyk]

Crescent2, it appears that you are very concerned about the "what ifs" that may or may not occur during a future trip. It is impossible to predict in advance what will happen during your trip, and it may be difficult to determine how it will be handled by Amtrak since there may be many factors to consider (such as reasons for the delay, other trains available, busing available, etc.). If you are that concerned, maybe you should split your points into 2 trips and plan on a hotel room in between train segments.

You may not get all your questions answered on this forum. I suggest phoning AGR with some of your questions and you should receive "official" answers. The answers that you receive on AU are not "official" but may be accurate (or not).

 

[crescent2]

Thanks, Penny. I know that all what-if's can't be answered with certainty, but I like to know the rough "chances" of certain things happening. I think that's valid data that helps me with planning such an extended trip.

If I were paying with $$ instead of AGR points, I would schedule a couple of overnights as insurance, although it would lengthen an already lengthy trip. But under AGR rules, I can only do that between separate AGR awards, and only two awards should be needed (one out, one coming back.) The sleeper awards require many points so I'm limited in how many separate awards I can do.

I have PM'd AGR Insider with the AGR policy questions, but my other questions on the other forum aren't specifically AGR ones.

To those whose last nerve I've gotten on, I apologize. I've tried to always be polite and Amtrak-related. Just don't read my posts, I guess.

Some of my questions are answerable, and to those with info about them, I thank you so very much! I also appreciate those who've given me their thoughts on the iffy ones. It's very helpful to me and hopefully to some others as well.

 

[AlanB]

You still would have access to food, both in the Dining Car and the café. You'll just have to pay for the meals.

No, if she's downgraded because of a mis-connect, she is supposed to get her meals in the dining car still. I can't promise that every crew will know this and understand that, unless they are first reminded by management. But that is the rule.

 

[crescent2]

You still would have access to food, both in the Dining Car and the café. You'll just have to pay for the meals.

No, if she's downgraded because of a mis-connect, she is supposed to get her meals in the dining car still. I can't promise that every crew will know this and understand that, unless they are first reminded by management. But that is the rule.

Thanks, Alan! If it was just for a meal or two, it's not that big a deal. But day after day, yes, because I prefer real meals to a lot of snacks, and that would get expensive. It's good to know that that's the rule, because I would now go up the chain to get it resolved if it happened.

 

[PaulM]

Do you know if they would allow occupancy of a sleeper if it was only available for a short stretch mid trip? That would at least allow a shower, but they'd have to clean the room again.

Where is the Devil's Advocate when we need him?

 

[C&O RR]

What is your complete planned trip and is it possible to change your direction on the EB as to take it west and not east. EB almost always makes the connection to CS in Portland.

Assuming you do not want to spend the night in LAX and decide to take the TE. Amtrak is very good about getting one to the TE it the CS is going to be very late. TE is use to waiting for late trains to arrive.

How many points do you want to use on this trip?

 

[amamba]

Crescent, I don't think you should apologize for asking questions. If people don't want to answer, they can scroll past. No one is forcing anyone to read your threads.

My recommendation to you is to consider breaking up your travel at some key points to ensure that you don't have a misconnect. I also live in great fear of a multi-day forced downgrade to coach. For me, it would turn a pleasurable train ride into an uncomfortable nightmare. That is not necessarily the case for everyone, but it is the case for me - and it sounds like you, too.

That is why I would highly recommend booking an extra night in CHI from the eastbound EB to your eastern connection whether its the Card, LSL, CL, etc. I personally would not risk a connection from the EB to the CL in chi. I know that it will cost more points, but that is what I have personally done to ensure my connections and to avoid a forced downgrade. I am an anxious person, and I am personally not able to enjoy the ride when I start to get nervous about the connections. It is lucky that my H had some xanax when we had our 30 hour delay on the EB because I was a wreck trying to figure out if we were going to make the LSL with our bedroom.

 

[Ispolkom]

Crescent, I don't think you should apologize for asking questions. If people don't want to answer, they can scroll past. No one is forcing anyone to read your threads.
My recommendation to you is to consider breaking up your travel at some key points to ensure that you don't have a misconnect. I also live in great fear of a multi-day forced downgrade to coach. For me, it would turn a pleasurable train ride into an uncomfortable nightmare. That is not necessarily the case for everyone, but it is the case for me - and it sounds like you, too.

I agree, crescent2, your questions are exactly what this forum is for, and even better, they are new. Have you started another thread about tipping, or about the Sunset Limited east of New Orleans, or about how there should be a Chicago-Florida train via Atlanta? No.

I just had a misconnect from the Coast Starlight to the Empire Builder and AGR handled it very well.

I have a cheap, throwaway cellphone (Tracfone, the choice of drug dealers everywhere), so I had lousy reception in the West. What I did was call AGR (or Amtrak if AGR wasn't open) when we were stopped in a station for an extended time, and ask what was going on. Plans changed as our detoured train got later and later. First the plan was a bus to catch up with the Empire Builder. A few hours later, when we were stopped for several hours waiting for a fresh engineer, that went out the window, I was booked on the next day's train, but in coach. I suggested that my wife wouldn't be very happy with two nights in coach. After much work, the agent was able to book us in sleeper, though we had to move from Bedroom A in the Portland sleeper to Bedroom C in the first Seattle sleeper in Shelby. Other passengers making the connection didn't call, and were also accommodated, though some were downgraded from bedroom to roomette for part of the trip, and one or two might have had to ride coach from Portland to Spokane. We also got day rooms in a Marriott (our train arrived at 7:30 a.m., and the Empire Builder left at 4:40 p.m.), $25 per person meal money, and a taxi voucher.

All this on a train that was labeled sold out in sleeper from Portland to Chicago.

What I take from this experience is that AGR and Amtrak will do its best to keep you in a sleeper if you misconnect, but given the shortage of sleeper accommodations, it makes sense to call and try to get to the front of the line for rebooking.

Maybe not, though, as this is literally my first misconnection in 32 years riding Amtrak. I've made the connection to the Empire Builder in Portland half a dozen times, without issue, for instance, and all my really late trains have been to my final destination.

Anyway, f this scenario still makes you nervous, I agree with amamba, that you'd be better off building in an extra night in Chicago, even if it costs more points. What's the point of a train trip if you are going to be worried all the time about connections? With our late train I didn't worry, but that's due more to the frequent flyer miles we could have used to travel PDX-MSP, rather than my phlegmatic personality.

 

[AlanB]

All this on a train that was labeled sold out in sleeper from Portland to Chicago.

Just a bit of a data point as it were, but once Amtrak realizes that it has a problem and that there are going to be mis-connects from the day before, Amtrak will immediately block from sale any remaining unsold rooms on the next day's train. Those rooms will only be available to passengers who miss-connected. So depending on just when you checked for availability, that could explain your getting a room on what you thought was a sold out train.

 

[crescent2]

Do you know if they would allow occupancy of a sleeper if it was only available for a short stretch mid trip? That would at least allow a shower, but they'd have to clean the room again.

Where is the Devil's Advocate when we need him?

And where is Swadian Hardcore?? I know he'd be able to provide detailed info about every single bus bridge. I'm not being a smarty; I'd love to hear what he knows. LOL

Alan: It's good to know they quickly block the available sleepers. Thanks.

C&O RR: My wild hair had turned into this:

ATL-WAS-CHI-EMY-PDX-CHI-WAS (or CVS with enough Xanax)-ATL

Crescent to CL to CZ to CS to EB to CL (or Card) to Crescent home

A few people had suggested that the nb CS and the eb EB would be a much better trip than going sb to LAX for the SL, so I changed my plans to include the EB. Now I'm excited about eventually taking it. Therefore, I guess LAX is out.

The trip above would give me the wb CZ and the eb EB, both of which are said to be the best directions of travel for having enough daylight for the best scenery, esp for the Glacier area on the EB, I believe.

I'm willing to use whatever points I can scrape together. I have about 68,000 now, and was about to buy this year's max w bonus, but decided to hold off for now.

Some of the more wary have suggested to me that this may be too much to try to accomplish in just one trip.

Amamba & Ispolkom: Thanks for your supportive words! They mean a lot. I was surprised by the turn of events, but respect the mods' rights to do as they deem best.

Ispolkom, I'm glad your adventure turned out as well as it did! Thanks for sharing your experience with me.

Amamba: I'm leaning toward thinking this is too much for one trip. At 10 days, it's already longer than I would like even without the insurance overnights. I may have to reconcile myself to a shorter trip with at least one flight.

I'm thinking about flying to DEN the day before, then DEN-EMY-PDX-CHI, then ??. I'd still have the Portland connection (Ryan says the bus bridge is good there), or else end the award there and start a new 2-zone. I'm leaning toward CONO to Crescent,. That would keep it to the central zone. But I don't know; that plan still has the PDX and CHI connections, and doesn't cut many days off the total trip length. IDK!!

My head is spinning at this point. I welcome your thoughts on the above or any suggestions you have.

Again, thanks--you're the best!

 

[Tracktwentynine]

I don't know that this is too much to handle for one trip (though I wouldn't personally attempt it). The best thing to do is break up your trip.

For example, travel from ATL to WAS and then on to CHI and then on to EMY. There's plenty of time to connect between the Crescent and the Capitol Limited, and the Cap is generally pretty good about getting into Chicago on time.

Then, instead of trying to connect to the northbound Coast Starlight on the same morning, spend a night in San Francisco. San Francisco is a beautiful city, and there's lots to do. Make sure to book a refundable hotel room, so that if the Zephyr is late, you can cancel that and catch the Starlight. Having one night in the Bay Area gives you a buffer in case something happens.

Then take the Starlight up to Portland or Seattle and spend another night before catching the Builder. I think the Starlight to Builder connection is a little tight, but probably doable.

And then take the Builder to Chicago and spend another night. The Builder to Capitol or Cardinal is probably one of the worst connections to try and make.

Staying overnight in San Francisco and Chicago would extend your trip by 2 days. It would, however, require you to shell out a few additional points:

>35,000 points ATL - WAS - CHI - EMY

>20,000 points EMY - PDX - CHI

>20,000 points CHI - WAS - ATL

Total - 75,000 points

Compared to:

>35,000 points ATL - WAS - CHI - EMY

>35,000 points EMY - PDX - CHI - WAS - ATL

Total - 70,000 points

Note than EMY/San Francisco is a natural break point. AGR is going to make you split your itinerary somewhere on the West Coast because "circle" trips are verboten. And it's a crapshoot whether they'll route you on the Zephyr when the Builder would be a direct trip for CHI-PDX.

Since you have to break your trip on the West Coast anyway, why not break it at Emeryville and spend a day or two in fabulous Frisco?

If you don't want to break your eastbound trip in Chicago, you could always break it in Milwaukee or even Minneapolis. From Minneapolis, they'll bus you to connect to the trains in Chicago if the Builder is running late. From Milwaukee, there is frequent service on the Hiawatha into Chicago.

 

[Dovecote]

Crescent,
It's rare that one would get any points back for such a situation. However, as noted by the_traveler, you would still be entitled to your meals in the dining car. Additionally, once you return home speaking with a regular CS rep should get you a voucher good for future travel for 1 year as compensation for the missing sleepers.

Is it standard policy to get compensation for missing sleepers on an AGR reward? I was not compensated for missing sleeper travel from MSP>CHI. There was a bustitution due to a very late eastbound EB. I was able to continue my travel to HFY on the CL in a sleeper however from CHI. I informed an AGR agent of this situation after my trip but was not eligible for any form of compensation according to the agent.

This happened in 2010 and shortly after AGR supervision was switched internally to Amtrak. Perhaps the scenario I was involved in was new to the agent and there was no precedent to follow?

 

[amamba]

Dovecote, in your situation did you receive a customer relations voucher for the inconvenience?

When I had a very long delay on an AGR award, AGR said "too bad, so sad" but suggested I contact customer relations. I contacted customer relations and received a very generous voucher.