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LookingGlassTie

LookingGlassTie

OBS Chief
AU Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Messages
628
Location
Portsmouth, VA
This may seem like a strange question, but....

Do Amtrak engineers and conductors (as well as those from the freight railroads) have to follow certain procedures whenever their trains travel near any commercial airport or military air base? Like obeying certain signals or taking orders/commands from dispatchers regarding the proximity to an airport?

I ask because for instance, the 84 and 125 Northeast Regionals travel close to Hampton Roads Executive Airport (PVG) between Norfolk and Petersburg, VA. Also, the NER's which travel out of NPN travel close to Newport News-Williamsburg Airport (PHF) and Richmond International Airport (RIC).

Like I said, it may sound weird given that planes are in the air and trains are on the ground, but it's something I'm curious about.

Thanks!
 
At all times they follow signal indications and dispatcher instructions. Nothing changes that around airports and there aren't any general "airport" rules. The railroad might have some kind of special instructions for that stretch of track in the timetable, but most likely not. If some kind of emergency was in progress, they'd follow dispatcher instructions as well as taking whatever actions seem indicated so as not to endanger the train or people.

Fun fact, on Santa Fe's old Harbor Line in Los Angeles (partly taken out of service with the advent of the Alameda Corridor), the track runs hard against the property line of LAX, right at the east end of the southern pair of runways. There's a siding there called "Lairport".
 
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I think it is fair to say that air traffic controllers do not double as rail dispatchers. If there are any issue they are reported into the rail control center who then takes appropriate action on the rail front using the means available to them to control things on the railroad.

Elsewhere in the world there is at least one well known exception to this, and a pretty extreme one at that! For example the Khyber Railway crosses the grounds under control of Peshawar ATC, The trains have to stop at the boundary and get clearance from ATC before proceeding.

Here is a quote from the article on IRFCA on Khyber Pass Railway, This is extracted from the description of a journey from Peshawar Cantt. to Landi Kotal on the Khyber Railway.

The train gains speed and soon passes through Peshawar localities of Notia Gate, Swati Gate and Bara Gate. Since the track is now seldom used, there are vehicles parked very close to the track. Many children run along and clap as they see the approaching train. After crossing Bara Gate the train slows down and ultimately comes to a full stop. In front of the locomotive lies the 9000 ft long runway of Peshawar International Airport. The train now waits for clearance from the airport control tower before it could move. Peshawar is the only international airport in the world where a rail track crosses the main runway. The photo to the left is the satellite image of Peshawar airport's main runway. The diagonal path crossing the runway is the Peshawar - Landi Kotal rail track. After clearance is received from the control tower, the train chugs forward.
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Trains (Coast Starlight and Pacific Surfliner) are stopped/held occasionally for rocket launches at Vandenberg AFB. Other than specific events, there are no special restrictions.
 
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zephyr17 said:
Fun fact, on Santa Fe's old Harbor Line in Los Angeles (partly taken out of service with the advent of the Alameda Corridor), the track runs hard against the property line of LAX, right at the east end of the southern pair of runways. There's a siding there called "Lairport".
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A light-rail line is currently being built on that right-of-way next to the LAX runways.
 
The best analogy of any RR going thru an airport would be the rules for a RR draw bridge. ATC tower controller would put up stop signals normally at airport entrances. Then when train calls for signals ATC would give them a proceed once any airplane traffic was or would be clear. No biggie. Before WW-2 the Chicago Midway airport had a BRC RR line that went right thru the middle of the airport east - west. That ROW has been repurposed for either a taxiway or runway not sure which. Anyone that wants to see pictures the McDonalds just south of the airport has pictures on the wall last time there. Uncertain if that McDonalds is on west side of Cicero
 
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Shouldn't there be crossing gates (with LONG arms!) to hold the aircraft back? Of course, any sign warning the pilots not to go around would be confusing.

Yes, those were facetious comments.
 
It was not too many years ago, that when driving to or from LGA's Marine Air Terminal, you had to cross a gate-protected taxiway, used mainly by general aviation aircraft. They have since relocated that taxiway, so there are no more aircraft-highway 'grade' crossings....
 
You're probably thinking about Gibraltar.

Also at MCBH Kaneohe Bay, one of the roads crosses the main runway. Driving across that was cool. No gates or anything, they figure if you belong on the base you're smart enough to not drive out onto the runway in front of someone.
 
But what about foreign object damage (FOD) to the aircraft engines from debris left on the runway by traversing vehicles? On an Air Force base where I worked, anyone crossing a taxiway or runway had to stop, check the tires for pebbles in the treads, pull forward, and do it again.
 
At BWI, the NEC, Aviation Blvd, and a bike trail pass about 500 feet from the west end of the main runway. I've watched airplanes take off and land overhead from my train window tolerably often. There are no special considerations for this on the NEC of which I'm aware.
 
Off topic but there is a very large airport that had a street crossing of airport runway. It was th south runway at LAX that was crossed by Sepulveda Blvd. Was protected by manned RR crossing gates that ATC told when to raise and lower gates. When second south runway was built the road was lowered and runways went over the road.
 
willem said:
But what about foreign object damage (FOD) to the aircraft engines from debris left on the runway by traversing vehicles? On an Air Force base where I worked, anyone crossing a taxiway or runway had to stop, check the tires for pebbles in the treads, pull forward, and do it again.
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In the Gibraltar video, it appeared a vehicle was 'sweeping' (at least visually) the crossing for any FOD, right after vehicular traffic was blocked...
 
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The road runs across the end of he runway at Dutch Harbor/Unalaska. Crossing gates come down when a plane is taking off or landing.
 
As an airline pilot, I am not aware of anything that the FAA requires regarding special instructions/procedures for rail crew in the vicinity of an airport.
 
JRR said:
The road runs across the end of he runway at Dutch Harbor/Unalaska. Crossing gates come down when a plane is taking off or landing.
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I wonder how the TSA deals with apparently open access to controlled airside area? In a tiny settlement like Dutch Harbor, the TSA probably "knows" everyone.... :p
 
B757Guy said:
As an airline pilot, I am not aware of anything that the FAA requires regarding special instructions/procedures for rail crew in the vicinity of an airport.
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Wouldn't the basic "See and Avoid" rule cover at least pilot's avoiding a train (or anything else) that happens to be crossing a runway or taxiway?

Agree, that rail crew's are not cognizant of any FAR's, but perhaps there are some Special Instructions in railroad operating rules that cite crossing same...just as there are when crossing certain busy highway's on lightly used branch lines...crew must wait for special traffic signal's to stop vehicular traffic, and/or "flag" the vehicle crossing, and operate at Restricted Speed...etc....
 
trainman74 said:
A light-rail line is currently being built on that right-of-way next to the LAX runways.
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Actually, they dug a trench so the (new) Crenshaw light rail line does not appear above ground as it passes the east end of the runway complex. It appears to be pretty much complete and some of the shoring is coming out. There are impressive slopes to get onto bridges over roads at both the north and south ends of the trench.

The old Santa Fe Harbor Sub was at ground level.
 

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