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AlanB

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Guest said:
This discussion has been referred to Amtrak Legal.
Who other than expressing an opinion, like most of us here have, can do nothing. First of all this site is neither owned, operated, nor financed in any way by Amtrak. Secondly, so far this is only a discussion. No pictures have actually been posted. Third, I’m sure that Amtrak Legal has far more important things to worry about than a BB discussion. However, if they were to express an opinion, I for one would be happy to read it. Fourth as Seajay pointed out, you’ve got thousands of sites out there all of which have pictures posted and so far I’ve heard of no cases being filed against them.

Fifth, to my knowledge Amtrak has no policy on taking pictures. If they do, then they done a terrible job of educating their employee’s as I’ve seen many people ask an employee to take a picture. Even if Amtrak were to decide to change their policy, to include a no picture rule, it still wouldn’t matter in this case. The rule cannot be made retroactive. Sixth, we are not talking about a picture of a single person featured prominently in the photo. The subject of the photo is the train, not the crowd.

Seventh, buying a ticket does not entitle you to a right to privacy. If it did, then as I’ve suggested, Disney World would be forced to ban all pictures while you are a guest on their property. Eighth, not all stations are owned by Amtrak, many are owned by the freight RR’s or by the towns in which the station sits. Going beyond that, I could just be standing on a bridge over the station and take a picture. So in both of those cases, I have no Amtrak ticket and I’m not on Amtrak property, so Amtrak can do nothing.

Ninth and perhaps most important, this is all about a right to privacy, an individual’s right to privacy. It’s not about Amtrak’s right to privacy. Only an individual who finds his/her picture up on the net could bring about a suit if they feel that their right to privacy was violated. Amtrak cannot sue on behalf of a passenger and in fact if such a suit were brought, Amtrak would probably end up being one of the defendant’s along with the photographer and the website in question.
 
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Guest

Guest
Tristan said:
I got a little something going on for this site and I need your CaNdId shots of Amtrak crew and passengers.
Please note the individual who started all is requesting photos of peoplee, not trains. One of the first replies was from an individual who intends to stand in baggage rooms and photograph crowds waiting to board trains.

That, my friends, is a violation of about a dozen Amtrak rules.
 

seajay

Service Attendant
Joined
Aug 23, 2002
Messages
216
Guest said:
Tristan said:
I got a little something going on for this site and I need your CaNdId shots of Amtrak crew and passengers.
Please note the individual who started all is requesting photos of peoplee, not trains. One of the first replies was from an individual who intends to stand in baggage rooms and photograph crowds waiting to board trains.

That, my friends, is a violation of about a dozen Amtrak rules.
Please list these dozen rules or tell us where we can find them. I would be very interested in reading them. Thanks!

seajay
 

AlanB

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Ok, I stand corrected. His intent was not to have the train as the main feature. However, you have addressed none of my other points.

That, my friends, is a violation of about a dozen Amtrak rules.
Please tell me where I can find these rules, as I've never seen them. They are not on my tickets, they are not on the website, and they are not in the Amtrak timetables.

Additionally, even if said rules do exist, how can they possibly apply to pictures taken at a station that is not owned by Amtrak? Amtrak does not own all of the train stations that they stop at. Those rules also can't apply as I mentioned earlier, if I was standing on a bridge above the station. I'm not on Amtrak property and I don't have a ticket for said train.

One other comment here, I've personally asked for and received permission from Amtrak police, to take photos within New York’s Penn station. Yes my focus was to photograph the new section of the station, but invariably I did manage to capture the images of people using the station. Never once did the officer mention not to include people who were in the station. He also didn’t tell me that I needed to obtain the permission of every single person whom I did manage to capture in my lens. He did however; warn me not to take hundreds of pictures of the station, such that every single detail and corner of the station was reveled in my pictures. So again, I can’t imagine that an Amtrak Police officer in one of the stations with the highest levels of security would allow me to violate Amtrak’s rules.
 

battalion51

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USA
Guest said:
Tristan said:
I got a little something going on for this site and I need your CaNdId shots of Amtrak crew and passengers.
Please note the individual who started all is requesting photos of peoplee, not trains. One of the first replies was from an individual who intends to stand in baggage rooms and photograph crowds waiting to board trains.

That, my friends, is a violation of about a dozen Amtrak rules.
Guest, while I can and do help out with baggage, I do it not only because I love trains, but because this is what I want to do with my life. To me there is nothing better than hauling hundreds of pieces of luggage so that the train can leave on time and people can get where they are going. I personally am currently employed by the YMCA as an umpire. I know that there are at least a dozen times a night where my picture is snapped, or video of me is taken. And I guarantee you some parent will post that picture or video on a family website they maintain for their friends and family. But do they ask for my consent, no. Because I am in a public place, with kids that are going to have their picture taken, I know I'll end up on the internet sooner or later. But the parent is not going to say there is Umpire Harris (not my real name) calling my son out. It is the same concept here, we are not saying, there's Joe Traveler waiting to board a train. Just a couple weeks ago WFTV in Orlando shot video of passengers waiting to board Train 98. One of our Conductors was shot, as well as hundreds of customers. But I can guarantee you the camera crew did not ask those people for consent before they were televised to millions that night. the only time, in my opinion, consent is needed is when your name is posted with your picture.
 

seajay

Service Attendant
Joined
Aug 23, 2002
Messages
216
Hey battalion51, as an umpire, don't you wear a mask (at least when ump-ing home) precisely so nobody knows who you are? You know, just in case you blow a call?!?! :lol:

seajay

"Still ticked off about Don Denkinger's blatantly horrible call that cost the St. Louis Cardinals the 1985 World Series!!" (And, that was at first base, not home...)
 
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Toe Tag

Guest
battalion51 said:
Guest, while I can and do help out with baggage, I do it not only because I love trains, but because this is what I want to do with my life. To me there is nothing better than hauling hundreds of pieces of luggage so that the train can leave on time and people can get where they are going.
You are a customer and helping load baggage? Doesn't Amtrak employ people for that? Who pays the bills if you get injured?
 

Anthony

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Atlanta
Guest said:
This discussion has been referred to Amtrak Legal.
Toe Tag / Guest:

You came out of nowhere to do nothing but lambaste us for requesting photographs to use in a new site update; it appears as if your main purpose on this board is to pick a fight with those who disagree with your decidedly stilted opinions. Additionally, you now seemingly claim to have alerted the folks at Amtrak Legal that we have some sort of criminal conspiracy here to illegally publish photographs that violate others' privacy.

I'd love to know your motives. Are you simply a disgruntled passenger who takes his values of privacy to far extremes? Or is it that you wish to see our operation closed down?
 

seajay

Service Attendant
Joined
Aug 23, 2002
Messages
216
The age-old word for this types of bulletin board guest is "troll". They come, they go. He (or she) did, he (or she) will. None of us should get too worked up over what they're trying to do.

seajay
 
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Toe Tag

Guest
Anthony said:
You came out of nowhere to do nothing but lambaste us for requesting photographs to use in a new site update; it appears as if your main purpose on this board is to pick a fight with those who disagree with your decidedly stilted opinions. Additionally, you now seemingly claim to have alerted the folks at Amtrak Legal that we have some sort of criminal conspiracy here to illegally publish photographs that violate others' privacy.
I'd love to know your motives. Are you simply a disgruntled passenger who takes his values of privacy to far extremes? Or is it that you wish to see our operation closed down?
No, actually I did not "come out of nowhere." It just distresses me to see things happening that could harm Amtrak, an organization where I have invested more interest and effort that I care to disclose here.

You really should have Daddy consult an attorney and get things on the right foot. There is so much potential here, but I am afraid you are injuring the trademarked name of Amtrak.

A word to the wise is sufficient.
 

Anthony

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Toe Tag said:
You really should have Daddy consult an attorney and get things on the right foot. There is so much potential here, but I am afraid you are injuring the trademarked name of Amtrak.
You shouldn't assume anything, my friend. This site and domain have been fully licensed by Amtrak since February of 2001. No attorneys involved.
 

AlanB

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Toe Tag,

If you have so much invested in Amtrak, then please show us those rules that you’ve mentioned. I’m not trying to pick a fight with you; I simply don’t think that what you have stated here with regard to pictures and privacy is correct. We are each entitled to our own opinion that’s one of the things that helps to make America great. On the other hand I do believe that I have an open mind and am always willing to learn something new.

Now while you’ve stated your views and opinions on this forum, you’ve only given us two hard facts so far. The Greyhound one, as I pointed out, only applies to media. It does not apply to a regular passenger traveling on Greyhound. The case law that you mentioned was shown to have involved profit from the photo in question, by TP49. Since there is no profit motive in the photo request here, that ruling would not apply.

So I ask you again, please show us or link us to those rules you’ve mentioned. Please debate some of the points that others and I have made above in this topic. To simply keep telling us we are wrong, without providing any proof or any serious discussion of our points really serves no purpose. You cannot change our minds and/or educate us, unless you are willing to really discuss the issue and provide verifiable facts.
 

Tristan

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Joined
Aug 22, 2002
Messages
83
If we must get all legal about this...

As second in charge here, I have put forth legislation that will close this topic as it is not at all an appropriate discussion for an Amtrak forum. I also hereby apologize for not clarifying what I want. The end result of my cropping and shrinkage will resemble this, surely not worthy of all this debate.
 

Anthony

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Joined
Aug 22, 2002
Messages
2,933
Location
Atlanta
Toe Tag, I am surprised that you, as an avid MileTrak user, would suggest that this site is injurious to Amtrak. If this site goes, so does MileTrak - and with it, your 129 MileTrak entries.
 
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