Amtrak Cascades, Maple Leaf, Adirondack & Via Shutdown

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riderails

Train Attendant
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Jul 20, 2017
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Any news on Amtrak Cascades (Vancouver<->Portland) in light of Via's virtual shutdown?
Conflicting reports from Via vs. Amtrak agents. Currently, have Tr 517 reservation (Monday, Feb. 17 Van to Sea) in hopes of using EB east as alternative to Via's Canadian. Simply do not want to air it.
 

gswager

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Aug 22, 2002
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I've heard about the VIARail shut down but I don't have the details. I believe that track which Cascades used is owned by BNSF. I'm not sure if it goes all the way to Vancouver station or not.
 

Thirdrail7

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This also impacts the eastern Canadian National network. The Adirondack and Maple Leaf are not operating over the border (and in some cases, aren't going anywhere near the border). I don't believe the Cascades are operating over the border.
 

the_traveler

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So how far does the Adirondack run? To Plattsburgh or Rouses Point? Where does it turn, and where is it kept overnight? I’m not sure about Rouses Point, but the station at Plattsburgh is on a single tack mainline. I doubt they block the mainline all night.
 

railiner

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This also impacts the eastern Canadian National network. The Adirondack and Maple Leaf are not operating over the border (and in some cases, aren't going anywhere near the border). I don't believe the Cascades are operating over the border.
They could probably detour the Adirondack into its old home at Windsor Station, and keep it off CN rails if they wanted to, but I kind of doubt they would bother.
Same for the Maple Leaf...run it over CP rails from Buffalo thru Fort Erie and Hamilton to Toronto...but then that is supposed to be a VIA Rail train from the border, so again, even less likely to happen...
 

railiner

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I've heard about the VIARail shut down but I don't have the details. I believe that track which Cascades used is owned by BNSF. I'm not sure if it goes all the way to Vancouver station or not.
I believe it's BNSF until New Westminster....not sure...
 

Seaboard92

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Dec 31, 2014
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BNSF actually owns the rails all the way into Pacific Central’s general area. For those that aren’t versed in PNW rail history Vancouver had three stations.

Waterfront which served the Cp, and currently serves the West Coast Express.

Great Northern which served the Hill Roads (GN and NP) which was located just north of Canadian National (Now Pacific Central) in what is now a parking lot.

Canadian National which only serviced Canadian National trains however it’s now been renamed Pacific Central. Both it and the Great Northern looked very similar back in the day.

But it was GN who owned the track hence BNSF now. But I believe CN dispatches the line from New Westminster to Canadian National Station.

As far as blockages go from what I’m aware of.

There is a blockage on the CP north of Rouses Point, NY.

The CN blockage between Toronto-Montreal/Ottawa.

CP blockage in the Vancouver area preventing West Coast Express from running.

And a CN blockage in Vancouver keeping the Cascades from running.

On top of trains strung out across every yard and siding in eastern and western Canada.
 

jiml

OBS Chief
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Feb 27, 2019
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The Maple Leaf is terminating in Niagara Falls, with a bus to Toronto making no intermediate stops - exactly what they did a few months ago while the bridge was refurbished. The bus becomes the only non-commuter "train" departing from Toronto's Union Station until this debacle is over. VIA is not providing bustitution on any of its other routes, and in fact it may be Amtrak that has contracted the bus. As of yesterday you could still purchase TWO to points in NYS on the Amtrak website, but from nowhere else in Ontario.
 

jiml

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So the blockage includes CP also?
I believe that also is Mohawk land. It's important to note however, that the Mohawks don't officially endorse any of these actions. It is a few fringe elements, supported by the usual gang of "protesters for rent" that seem to descend on every major event of this nature. This has gone far beyond simple support for the land claims out west.
 

andytiedye

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Jan 5, 2019
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The article uses words like "discontinue" which suggest that the shutdown is permanent. :(
 

Thirdrail7

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So how far does the Adirondack run? To Plattsburgh or Rouses Point? Where does it turn, and where is it kept overnight? I’m not sure about Rouses Point, but the station at Plattsburgh is on a single tack mainline. I doubt they block the mainline all night.
For now, they are actually killing it at Albany. I don't think there are any other facilities available along the route.
 

neroden

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Feb 23, 2014
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Many people are not aware what a mess the legal situation is with regards to land in BC. Practically all of it has been found to be stolen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_First_Nations_treaties_in_British_Columbia

People are probably not also aware of the conflicts between the traditional governments of First Nations and the "elected" leadership of tribes which was set up by the Canadian and US governments who decided who was allowed to vote; this strife has been ongoing for decades as well. It's all spilling out at the moment. (The tribes which went democratic "on their own" with the support of the traditional leadership generally only have one government; the ones where the US or Canadians imposed an elected government which was boycotted by many tribe members while the traditional government retained the support of much of the tribe are the ones where this made a mess. The situation with the pipeline is one of these.)

It seems, as I review the situation, that some of the largest land claims in Canada have actually been settled in very recent years, including the one regarding Toronto in 2010. The BC situation is still very bad, though.

The US has similar problems. A lot of the largest land claims were settled in the 1946-1978 period, with a number more settled by negotiation between 1978 and 2006, but a number of major claims regarding hunting, fishing, religious and environmental rights were not -- and the single biggest set of land claims in the US is still outstanding in New York -- eventually the state will have to pay up for the land blatantly stolen from the Iroquois Confederacy. Corrupt decisions of blatantly corrupt judges on the Second Circuit in 2005 have allowed them to dodge payment, but no legal scholar considers those decisions to have a shred of plausibility, so the claims are going to keep coming back until they make a proper settlement.
 
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crescent-zephyr

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Oct 21, 2015
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When I rode the canadian back in like 2011 we were stopped for hours because of a First Nations protest on the tracks. So this isn’t anything new, although it sounds like it’s gotten much bigger.
 

neroden

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Feb 23, 2014
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When I rode the canadian back in like 2011 we were stopped for hours because of a First Nations protest on the tracks. So this isn’t anything new, although it sounds like it’s gotten much bigger.
The Canadian government and the provinces have failed to address the demands of #IdleNoMore. Then they decided to ram a gas pipeline through previously-pretty-unspoiled hunting-and-fishing lands. In a period when international consensus is that we need to stop burning fossil fuels entirely.

So of course it got bigger. There was an obvious move for Trudeau, which was to kill the pipeline project, but he won't take it for some reason. Only thing it would lose him was votes in Alberta which he isn't going to get anyway.
 

F900ElCapitan

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518 is currently making it’s way through Vancouver, so it was able to run all the way.
 
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