I work in the food service industry, (incubator kitchen manager) and have been curious for some time now, which agency of government would be responsible for food licensing, and food preparation inspection of dining cars on long distance trains? A few years back, on a long distance train, we went through a dry county ( no alcohol served) and wine and beer sales were suspended while in that county. So local laws apply for that. But obviously it would be difficult to inspect every dining car, and every crew that passes through a state. I am guessing maybe FDA?
Amtrak dining car licensing question?
- Thread starter Fred Wis.
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Perhaps the inspection chain to the Federal level is when the Feds inspect the procedures followed by the Amtrak inspectors. This would be somewhat similar to the certification chain used by metrology labs for the calibration of their standards. Not every standard in your local lab is sent to the Federal level (NIST) for calibration and NIST personnel do not go to every local cal lab to calibrate the local standards. However, the calibration of each local standard is traceable to the NIST by way of the chain leading from one level to the next..
By that same token, it would be impossible for the FDA to inspect the diner on every Amtrak train along with every McDonalds, Wendys, your Mom's kitchen, etc etc.
By that same token, it would be impossible for the FDA to inspect the diner on every Amtrak train along with every McDonalds, Wendys, your Mom's kitchen, etc etc.
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BCL
Engineer
FDA does inspections. It's noted somewhere here:
http://www.governmentattic.org/4docs/AmtrakServiceStandardsManual_2011.pdf
http://www.governmentattic.org/4docs/AmtrakServiceStandardsManual_2011.pdf
OK, we have an Amtrak document that tells Amtrak employees wheat to do when (and if) the FDA does an inspection. That's nice, but it doesn't apply to the FDA. Is there anything that mandates the FDA perform any inspections of Amtrak facilities? If so, are those inspections random spot inspections? Regularly scheduled inspections? Or, as I suspect, does the FDA merely inspect Amtrak's in-house inspection system?
Edit: A Google search turned up this document... http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/Inspections/InspectionGuides/ucm074964.htm ..in which a semi-annual inspection appears to be called for in Para. 8.A. This, then, would seem to be the document calling for the FDA inspections - not anything from Amtrak. I think. Maybe.
Edit: A Google search turned up this document... http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/Inspections/InspectionGuides/ucm074964.htm ..in which a semi-annual inspection appears to be called for in Para. 8.A. This, then, would seem to be the document calling for the FDA inspections - not anything from Amtrak. I think. Maybe.
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The FDA does do random inspections of enroute food service cars. Amtrak also has an in house "FDA" type group that conducts much more frequent enroute inspections as well as Commissary facilities.
neroden
Engineer
The regulatory history here is ancient. Railroad dining cars were exempted from local and state food inspection for reasons of practicality, and the federal government took over the job, sometime in the 19th century, I don't know when.
Interesting info, at least for someone who works in the food industry. Often the general public doesn't realize how detailed complying with food regulations can be. Even in small " mom and pop" food businesses, those FDA regulations need to be met. Generally in my state ,the state dept of agriculture takes care of the yearly inspections, and files a report with the feds.We would only see the FDA if something serious went wrong. Thanks all for your knowledge.
FormerOBS
Conductor
I may have mentioned this previously in another thread.
I had a conversation with a retired restaurant inspector who worked in a State that has pretty good regulation. He told me it was not usually possible to get 100% compliance with all regulations, so he concentrated on the things that could potentially make somebody sick. His emphasis was always on correcting those issues and educating restaurant employees to prevent future problems. If he closed down a restaurant, he would be putting citizens out of work, and he would then have to deal with complaints from the restaurant owner, the employees, and the mayor and city council representative. Then I told him about the regulations that we had to comply with in Amtrak diners, and he said he could never have been able to enforce rules that were that strict.
My crew usually scored well over 90% on FDA inspections. More often than not, the inspections revealed far more problems that were attributable to mechanical issues than those related to the sanitary practices of the crew.
Tom
I had a conversation with a retired restaurant inspector who worked in a State that has pretty good regulation. He told me it was not usually possible to get 100% compliance with all regulations, so he concentrated on the things that could potentially make somebody sick. His emphasis was always on correcting those issues and educating restaurant employees to prevent future problems. If he closed down a restaurant, he would be putting citizens out of work, and he would then have to deal with complaints from the restaurant owner, the employees, and the mayor and city council representative. Then I told him about the regulations that we had to comply with in Amtrak diners, and he said he could never have been able to enforce rules that were that strict.
My crew usually scored well over 90% on FDA inspections. More often than not, the inspections revealed far more problems that were attributable to mechanical issues than those related to the sanitary practices of the crew.
Tom
Green Eye
Train Attendant
Not to be picky, but....
The USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service is:
"The Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) is the public health agency in the U.S. Department of Agriculture responsible for ensuring that the nation's commercial supply of meat, poultry, and egg products is safe, wholesome, and correctly labeled and packaged." (From their website.)So, the USDA only ensures a safe commercial supply of certain commodities. Federal restaurant food safety and sanitation is under the Department of Health and Human Service's (HHS) U. S. Public Health Service. Restaurant inspections done in National Park concessions are done by the Public Health Service.
The USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service is:
"The Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) is the public health agency in the U.S. Department of Agriculture responsible for ensuring that the nation's commercial supply of meat, poultry, and egg products is safe, wholesome, and correctly labeled and packaged." (From their website.)So, the USDA only ensures a safe commercial supply of certain commodities. Federal restaurant food safety and sanitation is under the Department of Health and Human Service's (HHS) U. S. Public Health Service. Restaurant inspections done in National Park concessions are done by the Public Health Service.
FormerOBS
Conductor
I've never heard of any direct involvement of HHS in Amtrak food service inspections. As far as I know, it's always been represented to Amtrak employees as an FDA function. I suspect that the citation above does not tell the whole story.
Tom
Tom
Yes, the FDA is the agency that does the onboard Amtrak food inspections, not HHS.
Amtrak equipment has a certificate of sanitary construction issued by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Amtrak is also subject to the regulations issued by FDA's Office of Regulatory Affairs (ORA) and rules made by the Office of Interstate Travel Program (ITP). FDA regulates Amtrak through random inspections of trains and facilities. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulates water on board.
As for USDA FSIS, FSIS is more the regulatory arm that handles food processing plants, often with the FDA and other jurisdictions. FSIS does not regulate Amtrak facilities or equipment.
With regard to NPS, the Commissioned Corps Officers of the Public Health Service are not regulators and are assigned to the Department of Interior as consultants.
As for USDA FSIS, FSIS is more the regulatory arm that handles food processing plants, often with the FDA and other jurisdictions. FSIS does not regulate Amtrak facilities or equipment.
With regard to NPS, the Commissioned Corps Officers of the Public Health Service are not regulators and are assigned to the Department of Interior as consultants.
Green Eye
Train Attendant
Wow, did that get complicated! :wacko: 
neroden
Engineer
Aha. The Office of Interstate Travel Program in the FDA is the key agency (thank you grahamru). Apparently this was transferred from the Public Health Service to the FDA in 1969. The Public Health Service was named in 1912 as the successor of the Marine Hospital Service (dating to 1789) and had duties regarding health inspections on ships.
I'm guessing the Public Health Service and its predecessor were probably vested with railway food inspection powers the moment the first dining car was operated, but it's just a guess.
The history of this is actually much fuzzier than I would have expected -- the earliest meals cooked on-board were much earlier than I thought, predating the Civil War, and nobody seems to have nailed down the dates.
I may have to get this book, as he seems to have done his research:
http://www.amazon.com/Dining-Rail-History-Americas-Railroad/dp/0312187114/ref=sr_1_1/182-2256979-3210104?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1454803035&sr=1-1&keywords=9780312187118
I'm guessing the Public Health Service and its predecessor were probably vested with railway food inspection powers the moment the first dining car was operated, but it's just a guess.
The history of this is actually much fuzzier than I would have expected -- the earliest meals cooked on-board were much earlier than I thought, predating the Civil War, and nobody seems to have nailed down the dates.
I may have to get this book, as he seems to have done his research:
http://www.amazon.com/Dining-Rail-History-Americas-Railroad/dp/0312187114/ref=sr_1_1/182-2256979-3210104?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1454803035&sr=1-1&keywords=9780312187118
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