Amtrak E Ticketing Procedures

[PRR 60]

That's fine for ASSIGNED seating.

What started this tangent (and what I'm saying won't work) was USER SELECTED seating at the time of booking.

The former is possible (although it would be a major culture shift on the corridor and failed miserably the last time it was tried). There are very good reasons that the latter isn't really feasible.

It's important to understand the distinction between the two.

There's no difference. If Amtrak could assign seating or rooms based on the need to not block through travel with seats or rooms assigned to shorts, then they could program the selection process to only show appropriate seats or rooms to the customers for their selection. This ain't rocket science. When I book a sleeper on Amtrak.com, my room is immediately assigned at booking by the system. It selects from the inventory that the system allows for my end points. Why can't it show me that same inventory and let me select what I want? What's the difference? None.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

One advantage that airlines have, that I haven't seen mentioned before, is they force you to check in when you arrive at the airport.

In modern times the only situations where I've been forced to check-in at the airport was at the beginning of an international trip. You have to scan your passport so the airline can be relatively sure that they won't get stuck having to fly you back simply because you didn't bother to get your paperwork in order. Other than that I can "check in" almost anywhere with network access. At home, work, a coffee shop, whatever. Phone, computer, iPod, you name it. Takes a minute or two and you're done. If you want to check bags yes you'll have to physically check them, but that's no different than today's system on Amtrak.

This is a necessary component of being allowed to choose your own seat. It has happened to me where I've gone through check-in and my seat had been changed from what I had printed up at home. There are unforeseen circumstances which dictate that the system has to be dynamic.

I've flown hundreds of times, including over a dozen long haul flights and yet I can count the number of times my seat changed involuntarily between booking and boarding on one hand. Might as well block off four lanes of a five lane freeway just in case there is a pile up and emergency vehicles need to get through to the accident. Same sort of logic in my view.

 

[John Bobinyec]

Other than that I can "check in" almost anywhere with network access. At home, work, a coffee shop, whatever. Phone, computer, iPod, you name it. Takes a minute or two and you're done.

I guess I used the wrong nomenclature. My bad. Yes, you can check in anywhere. But before you get onto the plane, they'll scan your boarding pass. (So what's this called? Scan-in?) If they need to change your seat, your boarding pass won't scan successfully, and changes will have to be made.

So, BEFORE you board the train, your boarding pass will need to be scanned, in case you need to be sent to a different seat. That's all I'm saying.

JB

 

[PRR 60]

Other than that I can "check in" almost anywhere with network access. At home, work, a coffee shop, whatever. Phone, computer, iPod, you name it. Takes a minute or two and you're done.

I guess I used the wrong nomenclature. My bad. Yes, you can check in anywhere. But before you get onto the plane, they'll scan your boarding pass. (So what's this called? Scan-in?) If they need to change your seat, your boarding pass won't scan successfully, and changes will have to be made.

So, BEFORE you board the train, your boarding pass will need to be scanned, in case you need to be sent to a different seat. That's all I'm saying.

JB

That's not my experience. First, as Texas Sunset said, losing a seat assignment is rare today. The last time it happened to me was at least five years (and maybe 100+ fights) ago. When it happens (maybe because of a change in aircraft), the system usually reassigns the seats and you find out when you do on-line checkin or check your reservation prior to checkin. You can then accept the new seat, choose another (if available), or wait until you get to the airport to work it out. 99.9% of the time, once you print your BP with your seat shown, that it.

The whole issue with Amtrak and assigned seats is a sore point with me, but in the end, it's only academic debate. Amtrak isn't going to go with assigned seats. They have to be dragged kicking and screaming into any technological advancement, and e-tickets is about all they can handle for now. Before we get too giddy about Amtrak e-ticketing, maybe we should wait to see if it actually works. Amtrak has a long, proud history of failed projects like e-tickets. Right now things look good, but until it is rolled out beyond the small sample size of the Downeaster, we just don't know.

 

[jis]

I agree with PRR that assigned seating and customer assigned seating is a distinction without much operational difference. Airlines routinely block off seats that they don't want customers to assign themselves. But that does not mean that they have to prevent customers from choosing any seat at all.

For Amtrak apologists it is yet another silly peg to hang the excuses hat on I am afraid.

 

[Ryan]

It just adds to the complexity of the program that does it.

Which adds to the cost.

Which comes from money that Amtrak doesn't have.

I'm not sure if that makes me a realist or an apologist. I'd like to think the former.

 

[jis]

Would the fact that Amtrak already has the software for doing it make one an apologist rather than a realist?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

One thing that surprises me is how divisive even something as (relatively) simple as assigned seating can get here on AU. I think we can all agree that it's not the end of the world that Amtrak doesn't allow customers to assign their own seats today. However, by the same token I would hope that we could all agree that for many folks it would be a useful improvement if Amtrak did allow those who want more control over their passenger rail experience to reap the rewards of early booking and/or status and pick their own seats. If you don't want to pick your own seat you should be able to just let the system pick it for you in a method that's every bit as haphazard as it is today. If there happen to be operational issues that impact the assigned seating then let Amtrak deal with the result as best they can and look forward to better days ahead. It's not like everything is moving super smoothly now and this one change is going to screw it all up for the first time ever. If you're booking too late and don't have any status then maybe you don't get to pick anything anyway. I dunno, I guess I just thought this sort of change wouldn't have much in the way of push back once e-ticketing is finally adopted. :mellow:

 

[benjibear]

I agree with the comment about PHL to BOS. I only did it once but they announced the train, everyone heads down to the platform, the train pulls in, and everyone gets on. The train was moving before I found a seat. I felt like it was the subway instead of Amtrak's premium service. Then I ended up sitting in the quiet car and needed to make a call.

I could see some issues with pre-assigned seating. One example is on the Keystone from Harrisburg to New York. If you have a problem with riding backwards or just don't want to do it, you need to change seats in Philadelphia.

Maybe Amtrak needs to start this on some routes/class seats. They may even find they can make more money with it. They could maybe charge you some amount to let you pick your seat and everyone else gets to do what they do now. Maybe it is only for couples or families that have the option of doing this.

 

[amamba]

I agree with how frustrating it can be to board an NE regional or an acela train mid-point. I live in PVD, and sometimes I will try to take a regional to BOS just so I can board acela in BOS and be able to sit together with my husband.

On a trip to NYC this past September, my husband and I didn't have time to make it up to BOS before boarding the acela. We boarded at something like 8 or 9 am in PVD on a Saturday and the FC car was packed. We got the only available two seats together and one of the trays table was broken. It was very frustrating because we had to share one table, and then of course they ran out of almost all of the breakfast items. When someone is paying a premium for the acela service, it is unacceptable to not be able to find seats together.

 

[Ryan]

Would the fact that Amtrak already has the software for doing it make one an apologist rather than a realist?

Perhaps.

Obviously it would take some money to make it happen. Do you think that it's possible to make a good business case for spending the money and having the upgrade pay for itself by increased demand from people like Bill?

One thing that surprises me is how divisive even something as (relatively) simple as assigned seating can get here on AU. I think we can all agree that it's not the end of the world that Amtrak doesn't allow customers to assign their own seats today. However, by the same token I would hope that we could all agree that for many folks it would be a useful improvement if Amtrak did allow those who want more control over their passenger rail experience to reap the rewards of early booking and/or status and pick their own seats.

I don't disagree, and think that it would be a great feature that I'd gladly take advantage of if offered. My biggest disagreement stems from the people saying that it's easy to do without taking into account the fundamental differences between air and rail travel (fortunately absent from this thread for the most part).

 

[AlanB]

If you don't want to pick your own seat you should be able to just let the system pick it for you in a method that's every bit as haphazard as it is today.

Actually, having the system pick it for you, was one of the bigger reasons that seat assignments failed on Acela. Too many people didn't realize that a seat would be assigned, or their travel department did the booking, and they didn't like the seats that they were assigned. And since it was the first class car, the attendants fearing a loss of tip, wouldn't enforce the assigned seats.

Not saying that this is a reason not to do assigned seats, as eventually people would learn, especially if Amtrak advertises it unlike what happened with Acela. Just pointing out that at the time it contributed to the failure. Other factors in the failure were running out of money before eTicketing was completed, revolts from the conductors who didn't want to carry the much bigger & heavier equipment being tested at that time (as compared to an iPhone), and a few other problems.

But the seat selection software, at least from my point of view, worked flawlessly.

 

[AlanB]

Hello All,

I have been reading about the big changeover to E ticketing which may go nationwide by this summer. I have several questions on how this system will work for those of us who are technically challenged. :giggle:

1) When my reservation paper is printed at home, will this have a barcode similar to what we get now? Is that the paper that the conductor will scan when you get on the train? :unsure:

2) If I am on a rail vacation and want to change the reservation route, train, etc, how will that be done if I dont have a WIFI connection and printer to produce a new reservation paper? Will you still be able to get a new reservation paper (e ticket) from the agent at the station? or produce one from a Quik Trak machine?? :unsure:

3) Once the conductor has screened your e ticket on his Iphone reader, must you still hold on to your e ticket to prove you should be on that train.? Example: I get off at a stop to take photos and when I get back on, I sometimes must prove I am really in that sleeper car. :unsure:

4) Under current system, we can print part of our tickets and wait until later to print others. Will an e ticket reservation cover an entire trip and thus make it difficult to change part of it later? Ex: CLE-CHI tickets printed in CLE, while waiting until we get to Chicago to print our CZ tickets? Still not clear about how a lost reservation e ticket can be replaced if I do not have access to print another one? :unsure:

I guess that is enough questions for now. I suppose this new system will be more efficient but may take a while to adjust old habits.

We do not ride planes so the whole concept is new to us. :help:

The Amtrak e-ticket does not use the same barcode as the present e-mail confirmations. It uses a "QR Code", which are those square graphics with patterns of small squares now commonly used.

Unlike airline boarding passes, the Amtrak boarding document and the code will cover all the segments on your reservation. If your reservation has two trains, the same printout will be used for both trains. If the round trip is on one reservation, the same printout will be used for both the outbound segment and the return.

If you change the reservation after printing the document, that is no problem. The code links to your reservation as stored by Amtrak's system. The original code will now be valid for your new reservation. Your printout will still be the one you use for your new trains unless your original reservation is cancelled outright and a new one generated. Note that you do not have to have a hard copy of the code. If you have a phone that can receive e-mails and display graphics, you can have the conductor scan the code right off your phone or even computer screen.

I would expect that you should keep a copy of your reservation code with you to prove to an attendant or subsequent conductor that you belong on the train. That could be either paper or on your phone.

Bill,

I think that Bill answered many of your questions for you quite nicely. But let me add one more tidbit to things, you won't get separate tickets/eTickets for you and your wife anymore. That one QR code will serve as the ticket for both of you. If you bring along others on the same reservation, again you'll just get 1 email with 1 QR code for everyone.

While I haven't yet booked things, this summer much of my family will be on the Auto Train coming back from Disney, and perhaps going. While I'm still waiting for my brother to figure out what he's doing, I know that at a minimum one reservation will have 6 people, 3 roomettes, and 1 car on it. And since they're doing eTicketing on the AT, I'll only get one email with 1 QR code for all of us and the car.

You might want to also take a look at this page and this page from Amtrak that describes some of the system and how it will work for you.

 

[mfastx]

It's been discussed many times here, there is plenty of reading you can go do.

The biggest issue is that a plane goes from point A to point B. A train makes many stops along its journey. Consider the following:

I am taking the Cap from WAS to PGH. There are 2 rooms remaining (A and B). I choose room A.

You are taking the same train from CLE to CHI. You are presented with the same two rooms, but choose room B.

Now a third person comes along and tries to book WAS to CHI. What happens?

This argument doesn't make sense. A plane does not go from point A to point B, there can also stops for planes too.

Answer: he has to choose another room. There will be a room available from PGH to CHI, and another room from WAS to PGH. And it will probably end up being booked.

 

[mfastx]

Think how this would work for a long NE Regional with 7 coach cars: 1 business class car, 2 coach cars, the cafe car followed by 5 coach cars. You have someone who is not familiar with the system or where the train is likely to stop on the station platform. All they know they have seat 23 in coach car XYZ. Train pulls into the station, they get on at the front coach car because it says coach car. After asking for help, turns out their seat is in the last coach car. So they drag their luggage the length of the train, squeezing by all the passengers going the other way looking for their assigned seat, passing by dozens of empty seats, and pass the line in the cafe car. After finally getting to their coach car, they find someone sitting in their seat because his ticket says seat 23. He is in the wrong coach car, but refuses to move and is rather brusque about it. So now the person who has hiked the length of the doesn't have an assigned seat. So, he or she says the [heck] with it, and take the next open seat.

Passengers would be assigned a seat in a specifically numbered car. If they aren't smart enough to observe what car they are in, then they deserve to have to walk back through the whole train while it's departing. All this passenger in your scenario has to do is ask the attendant for assistance and the passenger would be foreced to move to his assigned seat. It happens.

There is also the consideration that the Regionals have different number of coach cars. The Regional was to have 7 coach cars, but had sold less than 350 tickets at the peak by the night before. Amtrak decides that they badly need the 7th coach car elsewhere and pull it, limiting the number of ticket sales. Now they have to re-assign the seats sold in the last coach car. How does that work when people board the train at dozens of stations on the route?

This is the one problem. To fix this, Amtrak must work to ensure a reliable consist on its trains. It can be done. Occasionally, perhaps a car will be out for whatever reason, they will either subsitute a car, or (if the train is less than fully booked) change passengers' seats to the other cars.

But that is assigned seating and not passenger selected seating, correct?

And? Passenger selected seating IS assigned seating. They are one and the same. If passengers don't select their seat when they make a reservation, one will be selected for them, much like airlines.

 

[amamba]

It's been discussed many times here, there is plenty of reading you can go do.

The biggest issue is that a plane goes from point A to point B. A train makes many stops along its journey. Consider the following:

I am taking the Cap from WAS to PGH. There are 2 rooms remaining (A and B). I choose room A.

You are taking the same train from CLE to CHI. You are presented with the same two rooms, but choose room B.

Now a third person comes along and tries to book WAS to CHI. What happens?

This argument doesn't make sense. A plane does not go from point A to point B, there are also stops for planes too.

Answer: he has to choose another room. There will be a room available from PGH to CHI, and another room from WAS to PGH. And it will probably end up being booked.

Consider the following:

I am taking Southwest Airlines from Houston to Los Angeles (with a stop in Phoenix) and choose seat A.

You are taking the same flight from Phoenix to San Francisco (stopping in Los Angeles) and choose seat B.

Now a third person wants to book Houston to San Francisco, and the cheapest option has two stops and is the same flight. What happens?

Your scenario is completely irrelevant aS Southwest does nto assign seats.

And that situation mentioned above - one flight sharing a number that starts in say, Boston, makes a stop in Atlanta, and continues on to Fort Lauderdale, isn't that common anymore.

 

[mfastx]

Your scenario is completely irrelevant aS Southwest does nto assign seats.

And that situation mentioned above - one flight sharing a number that starts in say, Boston, makes a stop in Atlanta, and continues on to Fort Lauderdale, isn't that common anymore.

I realize that, I was just making a scenario. Point is, assigned seating is doable on trains. It has been done 50 years ago, it can be done today.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

That situation mentioned above - one flight sharing a number that starts in say, Boston, makes a stop in Atlanta, and continues on to Fort Lauderdale, isn't that common anymore.

While it's not very common for domestic flights at this point it is still fairly common for transoceanic flights. Which is just fine with me. I love to travel myself, but even in a premium cabin I wouldn't want to be cooped up on a single continuous flight for too long. Ten hours of constant flying is about the extent of what I can enjoy in a single leg. Twelve hours is around the limit of what I can easily stomach without beginning to feel a little claustrophobic. Fourteen hours or so is the longest I've ever had to endure, and that was more than I'd care to repeat. It was also nearing the maximum revenue flight duration that conventional aircraft could handle until just a few years ago. These days with more modern technology you can purchase a single flight segment that can last anywhere from fifteen to eighteen hours nonstop. But who in their right mind would want to do that? Even if you managed to fall asleep for a full eight hours you'd might have as many as ten more hours to kill when you woke up! :wacko:

Anyway, back on topic, in an era when even conservative Asian airlines now allow their deepest discount economy passengers to pick specific seats, and change them at will, it's odd to see Amtrak still doing the old school cattle call thing. No one solution will work for every possible situation, but that's probably why passenger rail systems like those of Japan and other countries choose to provide both reserved and unreserved spaces so that the customer can choose how soon they need to book and how much they want to spend, depending on how much control over their experience is important to them. Amtrak's current system is also dual-purpose, but their scarce bedrooms are now matching and even exceeding intercontinental flights on far less efficient hardware. As a result they're not an option for many folks, even those who could afford to travel the world at airline prices.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Mrs. Crockett rode VIA FC last summer, and according to her - IF she is to be believed :giggle: - she requested and got specific seating. She was with her parents and they requested and got a table seat for four. They were told that since there were only three of them that they might end up with a fourth person, but this did not happen. Anybody know more about this?

One problem, perhaps the biggest problem, I see with Amtrak implementing assigned/selecterd seating is the culture of Amtrak - both internally and externally. For example in this thread - http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/46378-amtraks-top-four-or-more-customer-complaint-problem-areas/ there was described the incident where a woman who was sitting in a handicapped seat refused to move when someone who was entitled to the seat boarded, and the conductor did nothing to get her out of the seat after she refused to move.

So while it sounds easy to implement assigned/selected seating - which is obviously desired by many judging from this thread - there are some serious hurdles, some obvious, and some not so obvious, that would be encountered. The FC Acela attempt says something about unexpected cause and effect in this regard.

 

[AlanB]

Mrs. Crockett rode VIA FC last summer, and according to her - IF she is to be believed :giggle: - she requested and got specific seating. She was with her parents and they requested and got a table seat for four. They were told that since there were only three of them that they might end up with a fourth person, but this did not happen. Anybody know more about this?

Last I knew online you could only request a window seat or an aisle seat, but not a specific seat within the car. Never tried calling, but I suppose that an agent could select a specific seat for you. This of course was for the corridor trains. I have no idea if seats are assigned in coach on long distance trains.

 

[benjibear]

While there may be some hurdles, I don't think there is anything that can't be overcome. You are always going to **** somebody off no matter what Amtrak does. They just need to decide who they want mad at them and which group is the lesser group. Sometimes change is difficult but once people accept it, they may actually like it.

 

[mfastx]

While there may be some hurdles, I don't think there is anything that can't be overcome. You are always going to **** somebody off no matter what Amtrak does. They just need to decide who they want mad at them and which group is the lesser group. Sometimes change is difficult but once people accept it, they may actually like it.

Agreed. Many excuses in this thread have to do with people not knowing the new "system," but after awhile people get used to it, and will probably end up attracting even more passengers.

 

[mfastx]

Amtrak is working on a new "next-gen" reservation system that will be ready in 2014. Hopefully they consider seat selection with this.

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak is working on a new "next-gen" reservation system that will be ready in 2014. Hopefully they consider seat selection with this.

Why do they have to consider it? They already have the needed software. I used it several times to book my seat on Acela First Class when the train first started service. All they need to do is turn it back on for everything and update the car layouts for specific trains.

 

[John Bobinyec]

Why do they have to consider it? They already have the needed software. I used it several times to book my seat on Acela First Class when the train first started service. All they need to do is turn it back on for everything and update the car layouts for specific trains.

But if they're revamping the whole system, they might start all over from scratch, especially if they want to rewrite it in a modern language such as JAVA.

jb