Amtrak engineer, railway co. sued by man who lost wife, unborn child

[saxman]

I believe this is the train-car accident that happened with the California Zephyr in Illinois last month.

8/26/2009 7:00 AMBy Kelly Holleran

A man who says his wife and unborn child were killed after being hit by a train is suing the railway company and engineer he blames for the accident.

Story Here

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I can see how one would be upset at UP or BNSF for the crossing (if what he's claiming is indeed true) but the engineer? You might as well tack on a couple of homicide charges.

What people don't understand about simple physics always bugs me--

At any rate, they still should have the dash-cam from the lead P42, meaning, they can hear the horn and brakes if they were applied. At least then he's off the hook.

 

[profwebs]

This idiot knows well that it was his fault and not the engineer's, unfortunately this is the society we live in now - he's found his free ride and is cashing in on it.

 

[chertling]

I believe this is the train-car accident that happened with the California Zephyr in Illinois last month.

8/26/2009 7:00 AMBy Kelly Holleran

A man who says his wife and unborn child were killed after being hit by a train is suing the railway company and engineer he blames for the accident.

Story Here

Actually, this looks to be the St. Louis area.... the CZ accident occurred on BSNF rail, not KCS.

This was a Lincoln Service train that hit a pickup truck at an unmarked crossing in Hartford, IL back in March.

Story Here

 

[Bob Dylan]

I believe this is the train-car accident that happened with the California Zephyr in Illinois last month.

8/26/2009 7:00 AMBy Kelly Holleran

A man who says his wife and unborn child were killed after being hit by a train is suing the railway company and engineer he blames for the accident.

Story Here

While Im sorry for the guys loss of his wife and unborn child,the engineer in no way is responsible or liable!Sounds like the usual ambulance chasing law firm looking for a quickie settlement,do Amtrak engineers get representation or are they on their own?Again proof that grade crossings should be hardened and if anything train whistles made Louder!Shakespeare was right: "..first we kill all the lawyers.."

 

[JSmith]

This was a Lincoln Service train that hit a pickup truck at an unmarked crossing in Hartford, IL back in March.

This is very tragic, but I think the reports are wrong about it being unmarked. If you watch the News video on the site you linked, you can see the reporter standing in front of the accident site, and the crossbucks are clearly visible in the background. I guess they meant it wasn't signaled or gated.

Are there still completely unmarked crossings in the US? I would be somewhat shocked considering the danger posed.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

While Im sorry for the guys loss of his wife and unborn child,the engineer in no way is responsible or liable!Sounds like the usual ambulance chasing law firm looking for a quickie settlement,do Amtrak engineers get representation or are they on their own?Again proof that grade crossings should be hardened and if anything train whistles made Louder!Shakespeare was right: "..first we kill all the lawyers.."

I believe in an incident like this representation is provided by Amtrak, in fact, I think it would be one of those situations where the company kind of walls-in the employee, to the extent of-- if you want to so much as send him a paper to sign you have to go through the company's lawyers.

Amtrak will no doubt settle for some amount to avoid bad publicity. However *IF* this man took this all the way to an actual court then his ass would be handed to him before he walked into the room.

BNSF however, probably will be forking over the cash regardless.

It would be nice for Amtrak to stick up for its employees and spend the cash on the lawyers to get off the hook and lay it all on BNSF and the driver, but, again, bad publicity.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

This was a Lincoln Service train that hit a pickup truck at an unmarked crossing in Hartford, IL back in March.

This is very tragic, but I think the reports are wrong about it being unmarked. If you watch the News video on the site you linked, you can see the reporter standing in front of the accident site, and the crossbucks are clearly visible in the background. I guess they meant it wasn't signaled or gated.

Are there still completely unmarked crossings in the US? I would be somewhat shocked considering the danger posed.

You bet there are. Take a drive around Alliance towards Seabring and you'll find the NS mains (the same ones the CL uses) undermarked. They only have the old white cross bars, no lights or bells. There is another crossing for an old NS siding that is totally unmarked a ways off, but I don't know if it's still considered active by NS... it's quite overgrown.

 

[Bob Dylan]

This was a Lincoln Service train that hit a pickup truck at an unmarked crossing in Hartford, IL back in March.

This is very tragic, but I think the reports are wrong about it being unmarked. If you watch the News video on the site you linked, you can see the reporter standing in front of the accident site, and the crossbucks are clearly visible in the background. I guess they meant it wasn't signaled or gated.

Are there still completely unmarked crossings in the US? I would be somewhat shocked considering the danger posed.

As far as I know its federal Law,as well as indivdual states,for all crossings to @ least have the crossbuck signals but Texas has hundreds if not thousands of crossings that do not have gates/lights etc.Im sure the soouth leads the country in this since we tend to have so many vehicle hits train incidents(Thats hoiw I prefer to say it instead of vice-versa since as far as I can tell no engineer is out to notch is engine with a kill!) <_< (some Texas crossings have a red stop sign next to the road but since they are ignored by most drivers in town what good are they @ crossings?!)

 

[rrdude]

This was a Lincoln Service train that hit a pickup truck at an unmarked crossing in Hartford, IL back in March.

This is very tragic, but I think the reports are wrong about it being unmarked. If you watch the News video on the site you linked, you can see the reporter standing in front of the accident site, and the crossbucks are clearly visible in the background. I guess they meant it wasn't signaled or gated.

Are there still completely unmarked crossings in the US? I would be somewhat shocked considering the danger posed.

Hundreds, IF NOT thousands of unMARKED crossing still exist in USA.

HOWEVER, the bulk of them are private crossings. (farm, private driveways, roads across land owners property)

Personally, I cannot remember the last time I saw a truly UNmarked public road - RR Crossing..... But I'm betting that in some rural areas they exist. They may well have BEEN marked at one time, and the county has since not replaced the crossbucks..........

 

[alanh]

The engineer is involved because one of the claims is that the train didn't sound its horn. I find that unlikely, though.

All crossings have at least the crossbucks, but may not have lights or gates.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

The engineer is involved because one of the claims is that the train didn't sound its horn. I find that unlikely, though.
All crossings have at least the crossbucks, but may not have lights or gates.

if its a quite zone then he can't sound it unless its a emergency so depending on when the car hit the train the engineer might not have know the car was going to impact the engine untill too late.

 

[Bob Dylan]

My bad!Wrong accident!Thanx for catching that amtrak wolverine!(I plan to ride your train CHI-DET when I go to Canada in OCT!!!Hope its still running!)

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Well the various videos I watched clearly show the car swerve around the white suv while traveling pretty fast,the gates are clearly down and the camera in the engine has the soundtrack that proves the horn is blowing and the car comes out of nowhere!The cameras in England and Spain and even in local retail establishments have helped solve lots of accidents and crimes albiet @ what some say are loss of privacy?The engineer is clearly not @ fault and even the most brain dead juror can see this when this video is played!Amtrak shouldnt pay a cent!the lawyers bringing this bogus suit should be disbared and have to pay cost of the phony claim!Thats true tort reform,not protecting the rich from lawful suits!

wrong thread jimhudson. this is a different story.

 

[profwebs]

This was a Lincoln Service train that hit a pickup truck at an unmarked crossing in Hartford, IL back in March.

This is very tragic, but I think the reports are wrong about it being unmarked. If you watch the News video on the site you linked, you can see the reporter standing in front of the accident site, and the crossbucks are clearly visible in the background. I guess they meant it wasn't signaled or gated.

Are there still completely unmarked crossings in the US? I would be somewhat shocked considering the danger posed.

Hundreds, IF NOT thousands of unMARKED crossing still exist in USA.

HOWEVER, the bulk of them are private crossings. (farm, private driveways, roads across land owners property)

Personally, I cannot remember the last time I saw a truly UNmarked public road - RR Crossing..... But I'm betting that in some rural areas they exist. They may well have BEEN marked at one time, and the county has since not replaced the crossbucks..........

Yep, I'm in as about a rural area as there is and I have seen a few unmarked crossings, however a good number have lights but no bar.

Not that it really justifies it, but the amount of rail traffic we have at these crossings, doesn't warrant spending thousands on upgrading them. Yes, I know, there is a good possibility of an accident.

 

[chertling]

if its a quite zone then he can't sound it unless its a emergency so depending on when the car hit the train the engineer might not have know the car was going to impact the engine untill too late.

I believe all crossings must have gates or at the very least lights, in order for a stretch of track to be designated as a quiet zone.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

if its a quite zone then he can't sound it unless its a emergency so depending on when the car hit the train the engineer might not have know the car was going to impact the engine untill too late.

I believe all crossings must have gates or at the very least lights, in order for a stretch of track to be designated as a quiet zone.

That they do.

In addition the definition of "emergency" would include seeing a vehicle on the road.

It is possible (unlikely) that he didn't sound the horn, but many things could have caused this-- the dash-cam is all the proof they need.

In fact, I believe that if he was guilty of some sort of negligence then there would have been some sort of action taken by Amtrak by now...

 

[railiner]

I have noticed that at some grade crossings, motorists do not always respect the flashing lights that are maintained by the railroad...even if further protected by gates. I think they should be protected by red traffic signals that are maintained by the local road authority instead. I believe that motorists show more compliance with them. There are many such installations in existence already, and it would be interesting to compare compliance stats between the two if available.

 

[AlanB]

While Im sorry for the guys loss of his wife and unborn child,the engineer in no way is responsible or liable!Sounds like the usual ambulance chasing law firm looking for a quickie settlement,do Amtrak engineers get representation or are they on their own?Again proof that grade crossings should be hardened and if anything train whistles made Louder!Shakespeare was right: "..first we kill all the lawyers.."

I believe in an incident like this representation is provided by Amtrak, in fact, I think it would be one of those situations where the company kind of walls-in the employee, to the extent of-- if you want to so much as send him a paper to sign you have to go through the company's lawyers.

Amtrak could indeed be providing the lawyer, but it's also possible that the union will be doing so. At the very least I'd expect a union rep to be at all meetings and any trial to protect the engineer's rights, if not an union lawyer.

Amtrak will no doubt settle for some amount to avoid bad publicity. However *IF* this man took this all the way to an actual court then his ass would be handed to him before he walked into the room.

Don't be so sure about that. Many, many juries have gone for the sympathy factor and ignored the facts of the case in this country.

BNSF however, probably will be forking over the cash regardless.
It would be nice for Amtrak to stick up for its employees and spend the cash on the lawyers to get off the hook and lay it all on BNSF and the driver, but, again, bad publicity.

That will never happen. And I'm not saying that because of the confusion over is it KCS or BNSF. The Amtrak contract with all freight RR's quite simply states that Amtrak covers all losses for any accident while operating on the host RR's tracks. And it doesn't matter if the host's negligence caused the accident.

When CSX derailed the Auto Train due to faulty track work, the only thing that CSX paid for was to fix its tracks properly this time. Amtrak paid for everything else, including any lawsuits, repairs to rail cars, travel expenses, hotel expenses, and damage to personal vehicles.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

That will never happen. And I'm not saying that because of the confusion over is it KCS or BNSF. The Amtrak contract with all freight RR's quite simply states that Amtrak covers all losses for any accident while operating on the host RR's tracks. And it doesn't matter if the host's negligence caused the accident.
When CSX derailed the Auto Train due to faulty track work, the only thing that CSX paid for was to fix its tracks properly this time. Amtrak paid for everything else, including any lawsuits, repairs to rail cars, travel expenses, hotel expenses, and damage to personal vehicles.

This is different than an Amtrak train derailing, this is a case where a crossing (may be) improperly or under-marked and the amount Amtrak pays through this contract could be used for gating ungated crossings.

This could also be considered a case of trespassing in which case the cross is, of course, the property of the host railroad.

The host RR is accountable for some of what happened UNLESS either the Amtrak engineer is solely responsible or the driver of the vehicle is solely responsible. Its common sense, and common sense may not always reflect the law or contracts-- but it does affect a jury.

And, by the way Alan, it is doubtful that a case like this would see a jury. A civil case like this would likely be handled by a single judge or (most likely) just go to arbitration.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Amtrak could indeed be providing the lawyer, but it's also possible that the union will be doing so. At the very least I'd expect a union rep to be at all meetings and any trial to protect the engineer's rights, if not an union lawyer.

Either way the Engineer probably doesn't need to pay for his own representation and I believe that that is the primary concern of the OP. Whether the UTU or Amtrak does it is a moot point.

 

[George Harris]

The basic traffic laws everywhere in this country can be summed up by one rule: At main line crossings trains always have the right of way. Thus in the basic matter of law, so long as the properly located crossbucks are there, there should be no recourse if you are hit by a train, ever. The whole question of lights, bells, gates, horn, etc. is just muddying the waters.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The basic traffic laws everywhere in this country can be summed up by one rule: At main line crossings trains always have the right of way. Thus in the basic matter of law, so long as the properly located crossbucks are there, there should be no recourse if you are hit by a train, ever. The whole question of lights, bells, gates, horn, etc. is just muddying the waters.

Isnt that what lawyers specialize in?I think the OP is right,this one will never seea jury and Ill say again Amtrak shouldnt have to pay one red cent!

 

[AlanB]

That will never happen. And I'm not saying that because of the confusion over is it KCS or BNSF. The Amtrak contract with all freight RR's quite simply states that Amtrak covers all losses for any accident while operating on the host RR's tracks. And it doesn't matter if the host's negligence caused the accident.
When CSX derailed the Auto Train due to faulty track work, the only thing that CSX paid for was to fix its tracks properly this time. Amtrak paid for everything else, including any lawsuits, repairs to rail cars, travel expenses, hotel expenses, and damage to personal vehicles.

This is different than an Amtrak train derailing, this is a case where a crossing (may be) improperly or under-marked and the amount Amtrak pays through this contract could be used for gating ungated crossings.

While I just happened to pick a case that involved a derailment, it doesn't change a thing. The person was hit by an Amtrak train. It doesn't matter why that happened or who's at fault, if it goes to court and the plaintiff wins, Amtrak pays.

This could also be considered a case of trespassing in which case the cross is, of course, the property of the host railroad.

Yes it could be considered a case of trespassing. Still wouldn't matter. Home owners have been sued for people drowning in their pool because they didn't provide enough of a deterrent.

The host RR is accountable for some of what happened UNLESS either the Amtrak engineer is solely responsible or the driver of the vehicle is solely responsible. Its common sense, and common sense may not always reflect the law or contracts-- but it does affect a jury.

Logically the host RR should be responsible, but that is not how the contract is written. They are indemnified no matter what happens, no matter why it happens. This is how all RR's work. If BNSF clobbers a car for any reason while running on UP tracks, BNSF pays any awards, even if UP allowed the signals to fail. The car collided with a BNSF engine, so BNSF pays.

And, by the way Alan, it is doubtful that a case like this would see a jury. A civil case like this would likely be handled by a single judge or (most likely) just go to arbitration.

You have to be kidding here. No lawyer worth his salt would ever take a case like this to a judge. If they can't work out a deal in the back room, they'll exercise the client's right to a trial by jury. The lawyer knows that bleeding heart strategies won't work on a judge, so they'll always request for a jury. I once spent 4 very painful days sitting in a jury selection room in Supreme Civil Court in Queens while the lawyers tried to find 6 jurors and two alternates for a case involving someone who had fallen down while riding on a bus.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

You have to be kidding here. No lawyer worth his salt would ever take a case like this to a judge. If they can't work out a deal in the back room, they'll exercise the client's right to a trial by jury. The lawyer knows that bleeding heart strategies won't work on a judge, so they'll always request for a jury. I once spent 4 very painful days sitting in a jury selection room in Supreme Civil Court in Queens while the lawyers tried to find 6 jurors and two alternates for a case involving someone who had fallen down while riding on a bus.

I'm not kidding Alan.

The guy hasn't been criminally charged with anything. If they can't settle it in a back room, you can bet they'll try for arbitration (though back room deals are, in effect, a form of arbitration).

IIRC the plaintiff doesn't have the right to a trial by jury it is the defendant who has the right-- at least in civil matters. Why would the engineer's defense team take this in front of a jury? They wouldn't...

In either case-- this matter was settled before we even started. Amtrak is going to pay out the ass, BNSF might throw some dough into upgrading the crossing, and this money heals the whole in the guy's heart.

All are happy. The universe is in balance.