Amtrak is finally coming to Scranton!

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jis

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The only fly in the ointment is that said publicly owned line is yet to be built. But it is a good start to at least have the funds I suppose. Now start the arm wrestling with NIMBYs in Sussex County NJ, and those bloody bats in the deteriorated tunnels. 🤷‍♂️

At least the railroad between Slateford and Scranton is still semi-active and other than needing a bit of TLC and upgrade, is good to go. I guess they still need to figure out how much, if any, work is needed on the Delaware and Pauline's Kill Viaducts. But given money and political will it can be done.
 

JoshP

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NJT is gonna be rich because Amtrak will have to run on NJT owned line from Newark to Port Morris then to Andover then over to Delaware Gap then whoever owns that, Amtrak will have to pay for track rental.
 

Cal

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By the way, that website SUCKS as hell. Blocks and requires you to sub before reading. Epic fail.
At least it doesn't cost anything.


And Amtrak really needs to start off with more than 3 daily round trips, if they want to attract more people. 3 trips a day is not enough to make it convenient for most. Are the amount of trainsets they're ordering to replace the Amfleet 1's just enough to cover their current roster or enough for that and for expanding?
 

SubwayNut

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Couple things. The line is already electrified with overhead wire as far as Dover under a different voltage than the Northeast Corridor. I assume the plan is to use dual mode trains. Just curious do the ACS-64s handle the voltage of the Morristown Line, Amtrak trains don't normally run there? NJTs Midtown Direct trains all can but the Arrows can't change voltage on the fly so their are Northeast Corridor/Dinky Line Arrows and Morristown Line/Montclair Branch/Gladstone Branch Arrows. They need to be shipped to get their voltage switched.
 

JoshP

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Couple things. The line is already electrified with overhead wire as far as Dover under a different voltage than the Northeast Corridor. I assume the plan is to use dual mode trains. Just curious do the ACS-64s handle the voltage of the Morristown Line, Amtrak trains don't normally run there? NJTs Midtown Direct trains all can but the Arrows can't change voltage on the fly so their are Northeast Corridor/Dinky Line Arrows and Morristown Line/Montclair Branch/Gladstone Branch Arrows. They need to be shipped to get their voltage switched.
If Amtrak is gonna use the Morristown line, I promise you NJT wont allow Amtrak use thier elecs, prolly use the new chargers. NJT owns the caetery lines for their trains.
 

jis

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Couple things. The line is already electrified with overhead wire as far as Dover under a different voltage than the Northeast Corridor.
It is 25kV 60Hz AC. Same as NEC East of CP Mill River to Boston.
I assume the plan is to use dual mode trains.
I am sure by the time the tracks are ready in ohhh say 7 or so years, there will be Regional trainsets available. Perhaps they will do an add on order for this and Allentown.

The Scranton trains will run on NJT M&E Line between CP Kearney and Port Morris. They will join the M&E after departing from NY Penn Station by switching over to M&E at CP Swift. At Port Morris they will go onto the NJ Lackawanna Cutoff to Slateford Jct and then on to Scranton. Beyond Dover is diesel. Current plans call for stops at Newark Broad Street, Summit, Morristown and Dover on the NJT Morris and Essex Line.
Just curious do the ACS-64s handle the voltage of the Morristown Line, Amtrak trains don't normally run there?
Yes they will work just fine. Same system as the east end of NEC.
NJTs Midtown Direct trains all can but the Arrows can't change voltage on the fly so their are Northeast Corridor/Dinky Line Arrows and Morristown Line/Montclair Branch/Gladstone Branch Arrows. They need to be shipped to get their voltage switched.
Yes. Their transformer tap can only be changed in shop.

Incidentally, there is precedent of NJT ALP46s operating Amtrak Clockers to Philly in the waning days of Philly Clockers, just before NJT took them over and truncated them to Trenton. Even before that NJT partly subsidized the Clockers.
 
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SubwayNut

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JIS, thanks for all the answers! Didn't realize the Morristown Line is the same voltage as the east end of the NEC.

I do remember once seeing and photographing the Clockers with NJT ALP46s back in 2004 it was a unique site.
 
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jis

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How is there capacity in the Hudson tunnels for an extra 6 trains a day?
As long as they are not in the rush hour there is plenty of available capacity. Even in the rush hour a Midtown Direct can be swapped to Hoboken for a Scranton train. With target three trains per day each way, I don't think that will come to pass. They will do the Scranton train at most on the shoulder of rush hours.
And Amtrak really needs to start off with more than 3 daily round trips, if they want to attract more people. 3 trips a day is not enough to make it convenient for most. Are the amount of trainsets they're ordering to replace the Amfleet 1's just enough to cover their current roster or enough for that and for expanding?
The current order does not have sets for operating this or the proposed Allentown services.

The three trains a day comes directly from the Amtrak ConnectUS material.


Here is its sister project to Lehigh Valley (Allentown), from New York.


The map is incorrect in this article. Amtrak's own publication has a more correct map.


This one will take off from the NEC at CP Hunter between Newark Penn Station and Newark International Airport Station, same interlocking where the NJT Raritan Valley Line leaves the NEC. It appears that this train will run on the ex Lehigh Valley now Conrail Shared Asset and NS line to Euston with a stop at Somerville adjacent to the NJT stop on the Raritan Valley Line. Then it will continue on to Allentown. Two trains per day. It might require some serious arm wrestling with NS with the help of the STB to get it going though.
 
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GoAmtrak

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Funding secured; thrice daily service between Scranton and Penn Station with 6 intermediate stops, and the best part is that it's all on publicly owned rail lines! :D
Wow that went through quickly if this information can be confirmed. I'm pleased with this addition.

Perhaps adding this line doesn't do much for the network, but it in the best case helps a city struggling to retain its population. As I would like to visit Pennsylvania, additional railway lines are welcome :)
Although compared to Ohio or Wisconsin, passenger railway services in Pennsylvania are quite good with 6 out of the 10 largest cities getting Amtrak service. But if it improves further, I'm pleased with it.

I couldn't read the article. Is there a lot of political will in the region to re-introduce this service? And who decides on it in the end? Politicians along the proposed line? Or the Governors of New Jersey and Pennsylvania? Or the New Jersey and the Pennsylvania Senate?

It's seductive freight interference probably won't happen here as the line between Lake Hopatcong Landing, NJ and Portland, PA (or close to that town).
I'm not sure about the tracks between Lake Hopatcong Landing and Andover, NJ. Have they been rebuilt already or just started? I read something on Wikipedia about it. How far do the rebuilt tracks go already?

Between Portland, PA and Scranton there exists already a line. Is there still freight on it which could disturb?
 

west point

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Capacity thru North River tunnels is a real problem until Gateway bores are in service. However the trains thru Newark Penn could discharge and passengers take next train either NJT or Amtrak such as is done now.
 

jis

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Capacity thru North River tunnels is a real problem until Gateway bores are in service. However the trains thru Newark Penn could discharge and passengers take next train either NJT or Amtrak such as is done now.
It is a real problem inbound for two hours in the morning and outbound for two hours in the afternoon/evening. Other than that there is no problem.

Only Raritan Valley trains and the ex CNJ NJCL train discharge in Newark Penn Station requiring change of trains to get to New York Penn. Everything else goes to NY Penn Station.

Those who have tried their hand at dispatching the NEC between Rahway and New York Penn Station know that is is highly non-trivial and disruptive to smooth flow, specially in rush hours to try to turn a train in Newark Pann Station.

Raritan Valley service actually has a platform dedicated for turning their trains, and the built two turning sidings between the inbound and outbound main flow track to make it a little easier to turn a few trains. But still it is no picnic.

Some Raritan Valley trains (used to) run to NY Penn Station during non-rush hours and they were never a problem. Plenty of slots available then.
 
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jis

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It's seductive freight interference probably won't happen here as the line between Lake Hopatcong Landing, NJ and Portland, PA (or close to that town).
The actual CPs are Port Morris at the east end and Slateford at the west end.
I'm not sure about the tracks between Lake Hopatcong Landing and Andover, NJ. Have they been rebuilt already or just started? I read something on Wikipedia about it. How far do the rebuilt tracks go already?
The story has been "anyday now" for about five years, while NJT parked their out of service ALP44s on the bit that had been constructed. Now they are actually getting pretty close I am told.
Between Portland, PA and Scranton there exists already a line. Is there still freight on it which could disturb?
I have traveled on the Scranton to Delaware Water Gap segment on a Steamtown Special a few years back. Yeah the track is there, but for running any serious service they will pretty much have to redo the whole thing. Freight interference should not be a problem. All the freight to Portland is fed from the other end of the line. Not though Slateford. Last time I looked there is basically one cement factory or something like that the is the major traffic source in Portland.
 
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jis

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I just read 2035 is the earliest probable date for the new tunnels.
Yeah. Unless they exhibit extreme incompetence, which unfortunately is not beyond the realm of possibilities, service to Scranton should be able to start much before 2035 one would think.
 

Cal

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The current order does not have sets for operating this or the proposed Allentown services.
So is Amtrak just gonna order more trainsets as routes get confirmed or what? If they want to be serious about expanding, they need the equipment to do it. Unless they plan to use the amfleet 1's and horizons...
 

jis

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So is Amtrak just gonna order more trainsets as routes get confirmed or what? If they want to be serious about expanding, they need the equipment to do it. Unless they plan to use the amfleet 1's and horizons...
That is how it is normally done. Rolling stock is planned for and ordered for specific set of projects.
 

danasgoodstuff

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So what are the chances of passenger rail north of Scranton into southern NY (Phoebe Snow route or otherwise)?
 

nti1094

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It is 25kV 60Hz AC. Same as NEC East of CP Mill River to Boston.

I am sure by the time the tracks are ready in ohhh say 7 or so years, there will be Regional trainsets available. Perhaps they will do an add on order for this and Allentown.

The Scranton trains will run on NJT M&E Line between CP Kearney and Port Morris. They will join the M&E after departing from NY Penn Station by switching over to M&E at CP Swift. At Port Morris they will go onto the NJ Lackawanna Cutoff to Slateford Jct and then on to Scranton. Beyond Dover is diesel. Current plans call for stops at Newark Broad Street, Summit, Morristown and Dover on the NJT Morris and Essex Line.

Yes they will work just fine. Same system as the east end of NEC.

Yes. Their transformer tap can only be changed in shop.

Incidentally, there is precedent of NJT ALP46s operating Amtrak Clockers to Philly in the waning days of Philly Clockers, just before NJT took them over and truncated them to Trenton. Even before that NJT partly subsidized the Clockers.
When did the M&E line change to AC. If I recall it used to be 3kv DC.
 
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