Amtrak issues RFI for NEC HSR trainsets

[jis]

Well usually the big hurdle causing them to have everything custom is FRA regulations. There's only been two foreign trains that I know of that Amtrak properly uses (I'm not counting the demo trains), and one of them runs with an FRA waiver. They would be the Talgos & the AEM-7. I highly doubt that the Velaro, any Shinkansen, or TGV meets FRA regulations, causing Amtrak to have order a custom build.
peter

AEM-7s have very little to do structurally with their European brethren. Their carbody is a completely different beast even though externally they look similar.

As mentioned above, FRA is in the process of creating the so called Tier III regulations which will permit almost off the shelf high speed trains to operate at upto 125mph mixed with other sets, and above 125mph on dedicated ROW.

Amtrak and FRA are working together to create a special set of rules to allow Tier III sets to operate mixed with current existing equipment at over 125mph, for use on the NEC.

 

[George Harris]

FRA is reforming the regulations and making noises that they'll be in line with international norms (read: UIC, Shinkansen are built to a different norm) and that internationally acceptable trains will be allowed.

Bugs me that everytime somebody talks "international" this that or the other they seem to think it means Western European. There is a lot bigger world out ther than just Western Europe. In fact one thing that I suspect that makes people think Western Europe is bigger geographically than it reality is the Mercator map projection which makes things look oversize when they are further from teh equator.

When it comes to the high speed equipment, the Japanese were running this stuff long before the Europeans, and carry far more people that all the European systems combined.

In actuality there are things in the UIC that are so archaic that they are between pathetic and laughable. Think the standard coupling system as a start.

 

[Ryan]

So what non-Shinkansen, non-Western European HSR equipment is out there?

 

[PerRock]

Bombardier has an HS train their developing. China has a couple different designs. Russia has one of their own design as well (Russia i arguably western-europe). South Korea developed their own. Turkey as well (again arguable western europe).

But even just in Western Europe there are more options then just the TGV & the Velaro. The Italians have 2 different current designs they use, Finland has the Allegro, Spain uses a Talgo High Speed train, There is the Eurostar (which admittedly is derived from the TGV), England has the Javelin. So there are a lot out there to pick from, presuming we get one "off the shelf".

Personally I think however that we'll be getting one of the following: TGV, American Build Shinkansen, or the Velaro. I'd prefer the Velaro, and I'd give it the highest chance of success. Right now the Velaro series is being used by 5 different companies around the globe. (TGV is used by 4-ish, they're all joint ventures with SNCF, and the Shinkansen, 2).

peter

 

[jis]

Actually I think more in terms of UIC which is the premier international rail organization of which all of the JRs are members. Also Amtrak is a member. CR, which arguably now runs the largest HSR network in the world is also a member. And naturally both DB AG and SNCF are members, as are RZD and the Spanish Railways etc.

I don't know for sure, but my contacts at Amtrak tell me that Amtrak's and FRA's general target for standard setting in the high speed area is currently being guided by UIC standards and collective experiences of UIC members.

And like all standards organizations they have a few goofy standards in their kitty too, so what? I am sure FRA is not adopting any of those

I don't think it has anything to do with how large Europe appears in Mercator Projection.

 

[Paulus]

Bugs me that everytime somebody talks "international" this that or the other they seem to think it means Western European. There is a lot bigger world out ther than just Western Europe. In fact one thing that I suspect that makes people think Western Europe is bigger geographically than it reality is the Mercator map projection which makes things look oversize when they are further from teh equator.

Personally I'd blame it on ancestry and our general ties to Western Europe being rather closer than they are to Asia.

When it comes to the high speed equipment, the Japanese were running this stuff long before the Europeans, and carry far more people that all the European systems combined.

Yes, but they also do so on a completely segregated system while all American systems are going to have some degree of interoption with legacy freight and passenger.

In actuality there are things in the UIC that are so archaic that they are between pathetic and laughable. Think the standard coupling system as a start.

Scharfenberg coupler? Rather better than the AAR coupler I'd think, though they should've standardized on where to place the connections.

 

[sportbiker]

CAHSR technical specs call for distributed traction, so TGVs are out of the running. AGVs, on the other hand, would fit. If Amtrak and CAHSR are serious about a common order, that would imply Amtrak also gunning for distributed traction.