amtrak ld differences from via ld

[yarrow]

i know this topic has been on the board before but not for awhile so maybe there is some new insight. yarrow and i had been planning a spk-sea-vac trip with a few days in vancouver for the first of april. got to looking at the via rail express fares and saw we could take the canadian from vanvouver to toronto rt with meals in a 2-berth section for $1670 cdn (i know 1670 cdn is basically 1670 us but what the heck). i thought that was a great deal for more than 6 days first class travel for the 2 of us.

from our recent experience, the cs is amtrak's premiere ld train. how does it compare to the canadian in terms of accomodations, food, ppc vs park car, service, price, metropolitan lounge vs panorama lounge and so forth? would appreciate any input. we are excited about the trip though we are always excited about a train trip.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

i know this topic has been on the board before but not for awhile so maybe there is some new insight. yarrow and i had been planning a spk-sea-vac trip with a few days in vancouver for the first of april. got to looking at the via rail express fares and saw we could take the canadian from vanvouver to toronto rt with meals in a 2-berth section for $1670 cdn (i know 1670 cdn is basically 1670 us but what the heck). i thought that was a great deal for more than 6 days first class travel for the 2 of us.

from our recent experience, the cs is amtrak's premiere ld train. how does it compare to the canadian in terms of accomodations, food, ppc vs park car, service, price, metropolitan lounge vs panorama lounge and so forth? would appreciate any input. we are excited about the trip though we are always excited about a train trip.

You said "yarrow and I." Do you mean that you are not Yarrow?

It is $417.5 one way, per person. Even with the discount, it is more expensive than Amtrak, but much cheaper than regular VIA fares.

If you want to do it, why not? Gets you a chance to ride on the Budd stainless cars, and also great scenery in the Rockies.

 

[railiner]

Sounds like a nice opportunity to experience Via. From what I have heard, the Canadian is the closest approximation one can get nowadays of what it was like to ride the original California Zephyr in its hayday.....

 

[yarrow]

i know this topic has been on the board before but not for awhile so maybe there is some new insight. yarrow and i had been planning a spk-sea-vac trip with a few days in vancouver for the first of april. got to looking at the via rail express fares and saw we could take the canadian from vanvouver to toronto rt with meals in a 2-berth section for $1670 cdn (i know 1670 cdn is basically 1670 us but what the heck). i thought that was a great deal for more than 6 days first class travel for the 2 of us.

from our recent experience, the cs is amtrak's premiere ld train. how does it compare to the canadian in terms of accomodations, food, ppc vs park car, service, price, metropolitan lounge vs panorama lounge and so forth? would appreciate any input. we are excited about the trip though we are always excited about a train trip.

You said "yarrow and I." Do you mean that you are not Yarrow?

It is $417.5 one way, per person. Even with the discount, it is more expensive than Amtrak, but much cheaper than regular VIA fares.

If you want to do it, why not? Gets you a chance to ride on the Budd stainless cars, and also great scenery in the Rockies.

yarrow is the kid (15 now and taller if not bigger than me) and i'm dad. i figure our accomodation on the canadian is about equivalent to a superliner roomette. i don't think i could get an amtrak first class fare for more than 6 days and over 3000 miles of travel for 2 for $1700.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

i know this topic has been on the board before but not for awhile so maybe there is some new insight. yarrow and i had been planning a spk-sea-vac trip with a few days in vancouver for the first of april. got to looking at the via rail express fares and saw we could take the canadian from vanvouver to toronto rt with meals in a 2-berth section for $1670 cdn (i know 1670 cdn is basically 1670 us but what the heck). i thought that was a great deal for more than 6 days first class travel for the 2 of us.

from our recent experience, the cs is amtrak's premiere ld train. how does it compare to the canadian in terms of accomodations, food, ppc vs park car, service, price, metropolitan lounge vs panorama lounge and so forth? would appreciate any input. we are excited about the trip though we are always excited about a train trip.

You said "yarrow and I." Do you mean that you are not Yarrow?

It is $417.5 one way, per person. Even with the discount, it is more expensive than Amtrak, but much cheaper than regular VIA fares.

If you want to do it, why not? Gets you a chance to ride on the Budd stainless cars, and also great scenery in the Rockies.

yarrow is the kid (15 now and taller if not bigger than me) and i'm dad. i figure our accomodation on the canadian is about equivalent to a superliner roomette. i don't think i could get an amtrak first class fare for more than 6 days and over 3000 miles of travel for 2 for $1700.

Actually, you could get the same distance travel on Amtrak for ever so slightlyy less, but not the same time.

 

[AlanB]

Well a section does not have a wall, like you would on a Superliner Roomette. You get two facing seats, so one must ride backwards and the other forwards. Of course you probably won't spend to much time in those seats. At night a thick, heavy drape is dropped down to cover the two beds, one of which drops down and the other comprised of the seats slid together. You have no real luggage storage area, save under your seats, so pack light.

Beyond that, there is little comparison to the Canadian and all of Amtrak. You have multiple dome cars, the Park car, dining car food that cannot be compared to anything served on Amtrak. And the service tends to be at a much higher level too. Be sure to take advantage of the first class lounges in Vancouver and Toronto.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Well a section does not have a wall, like you would on a Superliner Roomette. You get two facing seats, so one must ride backwards and the other forwards. Of course you probably won't spend to much time in those seats. At night a thick, heavy drape is dropped down to cover the two beds, one of which drops down and the other comprised of the seats slid together. You have no real luggage storage area, save under your seats, so pack light.

Beyond that, there is little comparison to the Canadian and all of Amtrak. You have multiple dome cars, the Park car, dining car food that cannot be compared to anything served on Amtrak. And the service tends to be at a much higher level too. Be sure to take advantage of the first class lounges in Vancouver and Toronto.

Yes, to the above. Also Railiner asked about the similarity between the original 1949 CZ and the 1955 Canadian. Yes much alike both as to quality of service and exterior appearance. Both were made of silver unpainted stainless steel back when most trains were not silver. The profusion of domes, the rear obsevation dome lounge, etc, and, sure, great scenery.

Some may be puzzled about old time sections on a modern train like the Canadian, inasmuch as sections sorta, kinda went out with the steam engines. Yet they were retained on even a few streamlined lightweight trains. They were needed in Canada since they need to reach all budgets,i.e. military, campers,etc. In the US there were more trains and thus many of them did not have sections.

 

[CNW]

Am I understanding that the section you speak of would be shared with strangers? If you were traveling alone could you expect the same privacy as you would in a roomette?

 

[Blackwolf]

Am I understanding that the section you speak of would be shared with strangers? If you were traveling alone could you expect the same privacy as you would in a roomette?

Having done the 'section' across Canada on the Canadian before, the answer is "No" on an equal footing for privacy against Amtrak's roomettes.

I traveled in "Upper Berth" westbound on the Canadian. In the day-time configuration, it is very much like coach, with two bench seats big enough for two people each facing each other and a window center to the two. There is no table or tray, but a table can be requested from the SCA if you and your fellow passenger both desire one. If you are booked in the upper berth, you are required to sit in the backward-facing seat, the forward-facing seat is for the lower berth passenger. Of course, you can discuss this set up with your fellow berth mate, but by default, this is the rule and it is enforced (with a detailed instruction by the SCA when you first board the train.)

For sleeping, there is a great deal more privacy, but in a tighter horizontal space than an Amtrak roomette. The upper berth is unfolded from the ceiling by the SCA and is a true innerspring mattress bed. The lower berth consists of the two facing seats being folded together and a thinner mattress being placed over the top of them. Both are separated from the isle by a very heavy weight curtain that hangs from the ceiling. It makes for incredible sound insulation and is 100% light proof. In the upper berth, turn out your reading light and close the curtain: pure pitch black! Best sleep I have ever had on a train!!

The worst part of berths? NO luggage space, so pack very light! The best you can hope for is an empty section across from yours to store stuff, otherwise... You will literally sleep with your bags!!

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Am I understanding that the section you speak of would be shared with strangers?.........

 

Yes, but the area is open and you are not in an enclosed space with a stranger. The seats face each other. At night, the seats come together to make-up the lower berth and the upper berth folds down from above the window. There is no connection between the upper and lower berth and heavy curtains separate the berths from the corridor.

Links here.....scroll down to the photo of a section (just above the dining car description) continue to scroll and you will find a Duplex Roomette which is very similar to a standard roomette except they are all on one level.

http://members.kos.net/sdgagnon/canb.html

 

[CNW]

If you aren't traveling with your mate then are you assigned a stranger to share the space?

 

[CNW]

Sorry didn't see your answer before I posted.....

 

[railiner]

IIRC, there was limited space under the seats for carryon bags. And there were those 'hammock-like' nets for your sundries, etc. Some of the late model sections were a bit more private, as they had bulkheads separating them from the next section, rather than curtains. And I believe they even had some with sliding doors to the aisle.....

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Am I understanding that the section you speak of would be shared with strangers? If you were traveling alone could you expect the same privacy as you would in a roomette?

Having done the 'section' across Canada on the Canadian before, the answer is "No" on an equal footing for privacy against Amtrak's roomettes.

I traveled in "Upper Berth" westbound on the Canadian. In the day-time configuration, it is very much like coach, with two bench seats big enough for two people each facing each other and a window center to the two. There is no table or tray, but a table can be requested from the SCA if you and your fellow passenger both desire one. If you are booked in the upper berth, you are required to sit in the backward-facing seat, the forward-facing seat is for the lower berth passenger. Of course, you can discuss this set up with your fellow berth mate, but by default, this is the rule and it is enforced (with a detailed instruction by the SCA when you first board the train.)

For sleeping, there is a great deal more privacy, but in a tighter horizontal space than an Amtrak roomette. The upper berth is unfolded from the ceiling by the SCA and is a true innerspring mattress bed. The lower berth consists of the two facing seats being folded together and a thinner mattress being placed over the top of them. Both are separated from the isle by a very heavy weight curtain that hangs from the ceiling. It makes for incredible sound insulation and is 100% light proof. In the upper berth, turn out your reading light and close the curtain: pure pitch black! Best sleep I have ever had on a train!!

The worst part of berths? NO luggage space, so pack very light! The best you can hope for is an empty section across from yours to store stuff, otherwise... You will literally sleep with your bags!!

Etiquette books said that if a "gentlemen" occupied the more expensive lower berth and a "lady" the upper, then he offered to exchange space with her.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Am I understanding that the section you speak of would be shared with strangers?.........

 

Yes, but the area is open and you are not in an enclosed space with a stranger. The seats face each other. At night, the seats come together to make-up the lower berth and the upper berth folds down from above the window. There is no connection between the upper and lower berth and heavy curtains separate the berths from the corridor.

Links here.....scroll down to the photo of a section (just above the dining car description) continue to scroll and you will find a Duplex Roomette which is very similar to a standard roomette except they are all on one level.

http://members.kos.net/sdgagnon/canb.html

Very fine, Thanks for providing this.

A word of caution....this info is from the earliest day, about 1954 of the trains operation.

The sections which still exist in the train today are in the Chateau series.

Those cars in the "U" series did not last very long. Those are old 1920s heavyweight cars painted silver to resemble the genuine new cars. Considered more spartan, they charged a lower rate, thus they were called Tourist cars. In a sense they were forerunners to Slumbercoaches.

Please nobody get confused and start talking abut slumbercoaches on the Canadian. True slumbercoaches of the type built in 1956 do not now and never have run on the Canadian.

But these Tourist cars, now long gone, kind of had the same idea, lower cost for lesser accommodation.

Scroll down to the 20th photo, showing the train in operation.Look at the three cars behind the baggage. Look at the windows and roofs , how they are different. Those are the heavyweight U series sleepers no longer in use. As stated earlier. the sections which still exist today are the streamlined chataeu series.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

A word of caution....this info is from the earliest day, about 1954 of the trains operation.

The sections which still exist in the train today are in the Chateau series.

And also in the "Manor" series. Yes, the Floor Plan is for a "U" series sleeper but the photo showing the day/night set-up is in a modern Chateau or Manor car (note the single large window......the old "U" cars had two per section. Now scroll down to the Chateau and Manor Floor Plans. Section #1 has been converted in to a Shower Stall/Dressing Room in the cars used today but Sections #2 #3 & #4 are still available.

 

[CNW]

The sleeping and storage issues I could deal with but being face to face with a stranger and being expected to make conversation all day would not be something I would do at any price! What is the next step up in sleeping arrangements that one should ask for?

 

[NS VIA Fan]

................What is the next step up in sleeping arrangements that one should ask for?

 

A “Cabin for One” which is shown as a Duplex Roomette in the brochure above. In the Chateau series, they are the duplex type, in a Manor……the single level type and slightly larger but all are private with a door and your own toilet and sink.

 

[AlanB]

The sleeping and storage issues I could deal with but being face to face with a stranger and being expected to make conversation all day would not be something I would do at any price!

If you're spending all day trying to make conversation with a stranger at your seat on the Canadian, then you're both doing something wrong!

Get to a D O M E car and spend time there!

 

[CNW]

When I travel I usually get enough conversation at meal times. I spend the rest of the time in my room not visiting. I rarely go to the lounge care to sit however the Dome Car does sound inviting. I buy a roomette for privacy, but this is all very interesting and I am glad to know about it. Although I have ridden many Amtrak trains it has always been on my bucket list to ride across Canada.

 

[ReidTYK]

................What is the next step up in sleeping arrangements that one should ask for?

 

A “Cabin for One” which is shown as a Duplex Roomette in the brochure above. In the Chateau series, they are the duplex type, in a Manor……the single level type and slightly larger but all are private with a door and your own toilet and sink.

It should be noted that although you do have a private toilet for daytime use, when the bed is made up, it covers the toilet, requiring you to use public facilities, or move the bed enough to access the toilet.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

................What is the next step up in sleeping arrangements that one should ask for?

 

A “Cabin for One” which is shown as a Duplex Roomette in the brochure above. In the Chateau series, they are the duplex type, in a Manor……the single level type and slightly larger but all are private with a door and your own toilet and sink.

It should be noted that although you do have a private toilet for daytime use, when the bed is made up, it covers the toilet, requiring you to use public facilities, or move the bed enough to access the toilet.

Not a problem. I speak as someone who grew up on one person preAmtrak roomettes and as a person who is barely mechanical enough to flip a light switch. It is a miracle that I can drive a car. But know this: raising the bed up and down in an old stype rooomette is NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. You can do it in your sleep unless perhaps you are height challenged. The bed pulls out like a murphy bed and your bathroom issues in the middle of the night are nothing. You are expected to raise and lower your own bed. If I can do it, anybody can.