They can MU but right now they are being towed dead as they haven't been accepted by Amtrak yet. That is why they're in Wilmington, DE now.
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They can MU but right now they are being towed dead as they haven't been accepted by Amtrak yet. That is why they're in Wilmington, DE now.
billosborn
Train Attendant
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- Mar 6, 2022
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300 and 302 (along with 301) have been in service for over a month. This morning, 300 and 302 passed the Skykomish Virtual Railfan webcam at about 8:55 AM., They were pulling the Seattle portion of the Empire Builder, with no P42's along. Looks like they took off the "training wheels". 
They've been running solo for a good amount of time already. Seem to be doing well.300 and 302 (along with 301) have been in service for over a month. This morning, 300 and 302 passed the Skykomish Virtual Railfan webcam at about 8:55 AM., They were pulling the Seattle portion of the Empire Builder, with no P42's along. Looks like they took off the "training wheels".
cirdan
Engineer
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I wonder if we will be seeing any P42s repainted to this scheme, or whether at this late stage in their life it's not considered worth the effort.
One of our friends who is one of the chief designers of the new paint schemes has not alluded to any further plans to repaint any P42s. All the new paint schemes discussed have been about ALCs.
What I am curious about now is what livery will be applied to the ITCs. Will it be some variation on the theme of Phase VII or something else?
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They have operated standalone on the Seattle section of the Builder west of Spokane during the recent 3 unit operation (the lone P42 led the Portland cars.) When they first put them on the Builder they carried a second P42 that I believe would go with the Chargers on the Seattle section which has now been removed and I believe the chargers are now considered to be good - I think the only reason the one P42 remains is due to being in a 3 engine operating period. I would expect when they drop back to 2 engines for warm season the two chargers will go alone.
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CSXfoamer1997
OBS Chief
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I wonder why Amtrak would want to use an Auxiliary Power Car rather than simply just a locomotive with 2 or 3 different power modes?
CCC1007
Customer Service Agent
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Probably to have a simpler (Read: Cheaper) locomotive.
CSXfoamer1997
OBS Chief
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Also, with Amtrak ordering a good number of trainsets to replace the Amfleet I's and a majority of the ACS-64's, I wonder a few things...
- What locomotive(s) will they use for the Lake Shore Limited since diesel power is banned in New York Penn?
- What will they replace the Amfleet II's with for the single-level long-distance trains?
- Could they possibly replace the Viewliner II's with straight Siemens Venture cars specifically designed for long-distance?
- What locomotive(s) will they use for the Lake Shore Limited since diesel power is banned in New York Penn?
- What will they replace the Amfleet II's with for the single-level long-distance trains?
- Could they possibly replace the Viewliner II's with straight Siemens Venture cars specifically designed for long-distance?
Diesel power is not banned in New York Penn.
Why would they replace VLIIs which are new?
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Probably so that the locomotives themselves aren't captive anywhere on the system and can be moved between trainsets and it makes for commonality of components. Could also be related to acceleration requirements for the corridor. The NEC APVs will have a supplemental powered truck in addition to powering the traction motors on the Charger. The two combined will provide the required acceleration. Trying to fit diesel propulsion and everything related to catenary propulsion into the Charger with enough acceleration to match the all electric Sprinters may simply not be feasible.
-Modified chargers that have battery capabilities; I believe they will run normally when out and with battery power when entering/exiting NYP.
-No idea, the order for the ICT's are for intercity trains only. LD replacements won't be ordered for a few years AFAIK.
-I'm not sure why they wouldn't be able to. They won't though (at least not anytime soon), whatever replaced VI's and Amfleets will operate with VII's. Many on here have speculated a venture-type car though.
Dutchrailnut
Conductor
The Dual modes planned for NY include units for MN, CDOT, LIRR and NY empire service the battery mode is only used if train is stuck in third rail gap . Each unit has 4200 hp in diesel and 4200 in third rail mode no units will be owned by Amtrak .
west point
Engineer
Figures of third rail draw on just 2 shoes each side seems to make 4200 HP on third rail impossible. Now a mixture of 2100 third rail and 2199 battery seems more likely.
4200 HP is about 5000 Amps at 600 VDC. Is that possible with 2 shoes? I could not find any figures on max current draw for 3rd rail shoes.
Dutchrailnut
Conductor
they will have 4 shoes on each side.
west point
Engineer
I remember riding subways that had major arcs when a car would gap. Those cars had what a max of 700 HP?
The original Eurostar E300 trainsets were configured with third rail shoes to run to Waterloo on the London Chatham and Dover 750 VDC line until HS1 was completed to St. Pancras in 2007. Under third rail power they developed 4300 HP or 3.4MW with a 90 MPH top speed on the conventional rail network.
west point
Engineer
How many shoes?
Unable to find number of shoes, but I suspect 2 on each power unit for a total of 4.
Dutchrailnut
Conductor
the Siemens dual modes will have two shoes at each side of each truck also they have gap anticipation were arcing is minimized. with 3phase propulsion the entire thinking is a whole lot different.
The old Eurostar power cars had 4 shoes on each side.
The old Eurostar power cars had 4 shoes on each side.
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Per the released docs on the metro north ALC-42s, they will have 4 shoes on each side for 8 shoes total, though we can anticipate that only 4 will be used most of the time. Also note that with 3rd rail power enabled, these dual mode units tend to have a lower speed and horsepower.
Source: http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Docum...ilroad Siemens NGEC 2021 - Final.pdf
CSXfoamer1997
OBS Chief
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Hmm. Good point. Possibly faster acceleration with less wheelslip.
cirdan
Engineer
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From memory there were two pairs per power car and per side.
The class 92 also has two pairs per side.
