There were just two Engineers and no Conductor in the cab, is what the railroad folks from the area familiar with the district tell me. Originally I thought similar to Mike, but I stand corrected by folks in the know.Mike from Crete - Your explanation makes some sense, but I believe there still should have been a second engineer.
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Well, I also stand corrected, but I thought Amtrak identified one of the deceased as a conductor.There were just two Engineers and no Conductor in the cab, is what the railroad folks from the area familiar with the district tell me. Originally I thought similar to Mike, but I stand corrected by folks in the know.Mike from Crete - Your explanation makes some sense, but I believe there still should have been a second engineer.
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Freight trains operate with one person designated as the engineer and one as "conductor". This may be the explanation in terminology as to the two people in the cab. Although my brother was an freight engineer, his compadre in the cab was the conductor (acted as a brakeman at times as well) but was in technical control of the train. Not sure how that works for Amtrak as I have always heard them called "assistant engineer". ?Yeah, I don't know what their official designations are, but the length of the district requires two people in the cab is the main point I guess. It did not have anyting to do with yesterday's special operating circumstances.
Using the distance measurement feature on Google Maps indicates the lead CSX locomotive was about 700 feet from the switch.In looking at the satellite image of the scene (https://firstname.lastname@example.org,-81.0669683,445a,35y,357h,1.19t/data=!3m1!1e3), it looks like the switch was a couple hundred feet before the location of the lead CSX locomotive. I only bring this up because the NTSB chairman said in his presser that the train would have surely derailed going over that switch at 59 MPH. It seems as though the train took the switch well (though no telling how the whole train would have fared at full speed).
Reasonable people can disagree about public funding for public transportation; but I strenuously disagree with including CSX. Isn't it a private business known for its heads I win, tales you lose business model?Perhaps they are correct! If we as a society are not willing to fund the RRs sufficiently (and I certainly include CSX et al. in this) at the bare minimum for safety maybe it really is time to let US passenger rail go.
Yes...if only your crew assignment map was correct...which it isn't. Perhaps you can throw it away or use it to start a bonfire before you pass more incorrect information?If the crew assignment map that I have is correct, the crew of 91 would operate between Hamlet, NC and Jacksonville, FL, a trip scheduled to take over 7 hours. This should require 2 engineers, Plus it is a middle of the night trip. Mr. Cella, one of the deceased, has been mentioned as the Conductor. It is indeed possible that he was riding the engine, or has he been mislabeled as the second engineer? If he was the Conductor, What is the status of the second engineer? Rest In Peace, gentlemen.
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The length of the district for engineers as mentioned by Greatcats in inaccurate. Therefore, the the second person in the cab was correctly identified as the conductor, who was on the head end so the train could comply with copying rules during a signal suspension. It had everything to do with operating circumstances sicee the engineer would have normally been alone.Yeah, I don't know what their official designations are, but the length of the district requires two people in the cab is the main point I guess. It did not have anyting to do with yesterday's special operating circumstances.
Those are the bus times. The train operated down the A-line from RMT-SAV, bypassing the intermediate stops. It actually arrived SAV almost 2 hours early.
Using track warrants is a method that is accepted by the NTSB and I don't see that changing.As to the question about "what if PTC was there, but down for maintenance?" I can already guess that the NTSB would just "recommend" to not run the trains at all, or to run restricted speed.
Mr. Sumwalt of NTSB confirmed that the second person in the cab was a Conductor, and presumably my (and Matt's) original theory was correct, as can also be surmised from what Thirdrail mentioned above.From the train’s last stop, the maximum speed reached 57 mph. The track speed, under signal suspension rules, is 59 mph. About 7 seconds before the end of the recording, the train’s horn was activated for three seconds. Speed was 56 mph.
Two seconds later, the brake-pipe pressure began decreasing. The following second, the throttle transitioned from full throttle to idle, while the train was at 54 mph.
One second later, while the train was at 53 mph, emergency braking was initiated. The recording ended 2 seconds later. The train’s speed was 50 mph as the train’s air braking system was approaching max braking.
Thank you for saying, what I was feeling.Seaboard, I understand how you feel. When we look at rail collisions, we see 2 dead and it is a statistic. I can only see it as a statistic, too. I didnt know them, and the human heart would never survive if it mourned every tragic loss in plane crashes, train crashes, car crashes, and good men like my neighbor (who I mourned because I knew him) who tragically died from a heart attack leaving three kids and an entirely unfit mother.
That above is a horrible tragedy that has left me sick for years, and you didnt even know about it. Hearing about this, I am sure you are going to feel bad about it; but you will not be affected by it the way you feel about your friends; nor should you.
So mourn them; you knew them as good men. I feel sorry that they died. I cant mourn them; I didnt know them. Since that part is what it is, I will also lament the loss of some equipment on a system that is already short of it, and a reality that while cars can be replaced, they wont be for years. In fact, and excuse my coldness, but mechanically, you cant replace a human soul, but training a new conductor and engineer is actually easier than replacing a car.
It is not unreasonable for me as a transit advocate (retired) to consider all of those practical things. That doesnt mean I dont see or understand the human tragedy; it means that saying Im sorry Amtrak lost two good men, and meaning it, is all I can do about it.
Pt#1Reasonable people can disagree about public funding for public transportation; but I strenuously disagree with including CSX. Isn't it a private business known for its heads I win, tales you lose business model?
It's axiomatic that the greater the risk, the greater the profits, at least in the short term, which is the only thing Wall Street cares about. And it gets even better if you can lay off the risk on innocent bystanders, as you seem to want.
And as much as I totally disagree about your opinion of Holt, I will say this -- all he does is read the crap that is put before him. Don't entirely blame him; point the finger where it belongs...As much as I respect Lester Holt on NBC Nightly News, this evening NBC's reporting on this tragedy seemed to me to point the finger of responsibility at Amtrak. I would classify this "reporting" as "incomplete news". Like others, I want to see the NTSB report to determine what happened and where responsibility lies. For me, at this time, CSX seems to be the responsible culprit.
That's pretty much what I meant to say, but you said it much better.....Investigative reporting generally takes weeks if not months of effort to complete. This is not investigative reporting. This is sensationalistic tabloid journalism. Journalists have always struggled with the moral and ethical weight of their positions, but back in the 1980's the news staff of major media companies were moved under their entertainment divisions. Instead of being judged on their accuracy and relevance reporters were now judged on how many eyeballs they could command through whatever means were available. Ever since then then the goal and obligation of informing a diverse audience in an objective fashion has slowly been abandoned and replaced with targeted emotion based reporting.