Amtrak's 400% food markup

[D.P. Roberts]

I know there have been a million threads about the current state of Amtrak's dining cars, their problems, the causes of those problems, and how to fix them. But when I see something like this, it truly makes me wonder just how broken the dining system truly is.

One of Amtrak's new "Healthy & Flavor Forward Specialties" is listed as "Black Bean Vegetable Enchiladas." According to Amtrak Food Facts (http://purls.agsprint.com/restimg2/force/cvp/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/AMTRAK-11-4-2015-33.pdf), this is simply an Amy's Kitchen frozen food entree. These are readily available at many supermarkets for about $4.

Amtrak recently posted their November 2015 menus online, including the new entree mentioned above. To be fair, the entree includes a side salad and a roll. It's also possible that it includes side vegetables, but AFF doesn't include them, and shows the entree presented without them.

Again, this is a frozen food entree that retails for about $4. Undoubtedly Amtrak buys them for a fraction of that price. But the price on the menu for that entree is... $15.75!

Does it really cost Amtrak almost $12 to store that meal onboard & heat it up in a microwave???

If we take that as a given - Amtrak charges about $12 in "overhead" on each entree, and still loses money in the dining cars - one wonders how Amtrak hopes to cut its way to profitability (or at least breaking even) in the dining cars.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Like everything with Amtrak this is complex depending on what you count. The cost and maintenance of the cars, paying the people who serve the food on board, providing a space for those people to live on board the train, providing lodging for those people at the terminal, providing insurance for those people, paying the staff who loads the supplies, paying the staff that unloads the supplies, paying the people who order, and stock the commissaries. That's a whole lot of $15 burritos to pay for all that!

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Like everything with Amtrak this is complex depending on what you count. The cost and maintenance of the cars, paying the people who serve the food on board, providing a space for those people to live on board the train, providing lodging for those people at the terminal, providing insurance for those people, paying the staff who loads the supplies, paying the staff that unloads the supplies, paying the people who order, and stock the commissaries. That's a whole lot of $15 burritos to pay for all that!

Yes, but... it's just a microwaved dinner. Amtrak could fire all of those people, get rid of the dining cars, etc., and replace them with a freezer & microwave in each passenger car. Passengers could bring their own frozen meals & store them in the freezer (like frozen luggage), & thaw them in the microwaves. It would be a lot cheaper, and it would be precisely the same food.

Amtrak's cost-cutting has put them in a terrible position. They have all the overhead of operating a real onboard dining car, but then squander it with offerings like this. I know Congress is at fault, but operations like this - all the kerfuffle and expense just to put a box in a microwave - make very little sense.

 

[Palmland]

I guess these prepackaged meals are the best Amtrak could do given their mandate to reduce costs. So - why not reduce this price by serving them like they really are - a nuked cafe car fast food. Avoid the expense of the waiters and place settings and serve them as carry out to eat in your room or on bare tables in a portion of the diner. I suspect the majority of passengers wouldn't know the difference. But, at the same time, offer a freshly prepared sit down meal with quality food for a premium price. The cruise lines have figured that out with their specialty dining options. I'd gladly pay a few bucks more for a really good leisurely meal with decent service.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I guess these prepackaged meals are the best Amtrak could do given their mandate to reduce costs. So - why not reduce this price by serving them like they really are - a nuked cafe car fast food. Avoid the expense of the waiters and place settings and serve them as carry out to eat in your room or on bare tables in a portion of the diner. I suspect the majority of passengers wouldn't know the difference. But, at the same time, offer a freshly prepared sit down meal with quality food for a premium price. The cruise lines have figured that out with their specialty dining options. I'd gladly pay a few bucks more for a really good leisurely meal with decent service.

And there's the rub: a really good leisurely meal with decent service is what Amtrak is in the process of eliminating with their nickel and dime cuts, standardized Menus and cutting Food Service staff and even Diners!!!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I like the idea of having a choice between cheap microwave food and expensive freshly prepared premium food. Too bad we're currently stuck with a single option that combines the worst of both worlds with expensive microwave food. I'm actually surprised that Amtrak's food options don't get a lot more negativity on here. Average passengers I encounter often remark that Amtrak food is low quality and/or overpriced. Only on AU do I encounter folks who consider Amtrak food to be perfectly fine all the time.

 

[City of Miami]

I'd gladly pay a few bucks more for a really good leisurely meal with decent service.

It would have to be hugely more than a few bucks. If it was a matter of a few bucks there is no problem in the first place. You need to be on a cruise with an army of everyone paying in advance or a private RR journey- you know, $5k each dbl occupancy 5 days,starting 9pm first til 8am fifth day.

 

[Karl1459]

I believe in the restaurant industry that the baseline rule of thumb is 3x the cost of ingredients, so 4x with Amtrak's extra costs its not out of line, or depending on your point of view, not enough.

 

[TinCan782]

Hebrew National Beef Franks...$5.00 (includes a bun) in the Cafe Car.

At my local Ralph's (Kroger) ... $0.71 in a standard 7 pack. Add $.029 for a bun and its a buck for the "cost". A larger pack at Costco would be cheaper I guess.

A hot dog at your local ball park ?

 

[FormerOBS]

D.P.:

Freezers and microwave ovens for personal food woulds be non-starters due to FDA regulations and liability issues. Thank the people who have abused such things in the past, and their lawyers.

Tom

 

[DryCreek]

Amtrak recently posted their November 2015 menus online, including the new entree mentioned above. To be fair, the entree includes a side salad and a roll. It's also possible that it includes side vegetables, but AFF doesn't include them, and shows the entree presented without them.

I may be wrong here (it's been a year since our trip in, ahem "first class") but unless you're a sleeper passenger you will pay extra for the side salad and roll. But, like I said, it's been a while and several of my brain cells have been victimized by fine Texas whiskey since then.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Devils Advocate....

What dinner entrees have you tried on Amtraks menu? What was the best and worst?

For me, I have never been impressed with any standard Amtrak Pasta Dish, and the Tilapia was consistently bad. On the flip side the best I've had were the Mahi Mahi that was on the menu about 2 years ago, and the Lamb Shank which was a rotating "special" a few years ago and was still available on the coast Starlight this past november in the parlor car.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

A hot dog at your local ball park ?

If I remember right, a Hot Dog was punching in at somewhere around $8 at the last Super Bowl as was a standard size pour of Soda. Jerry Jones (Texas Stadium) also runs a notorious clip joint; a small Pizza ran about $25 and that was a few years ago. When the operator knows he has hostages, he will price accordingly.

 

[neroden]

Freezers and microwave ovens for personal food woulds be non-starters due to FDA regulations and liability issues. Thank the people who have abused such things in the past, and their lawyers.

I actually simply don't believe this. I've seen too many stationary operations with microwaves for public use (with big disclaimer stickers on them); the liability problems are apparently nonexistent.

Freezers for public use would be a different and impossible problem, but the freezers could still be behind the cafe car counter, with the food sold "as is frozen" to the customer.

 

[A Voice]

D.P.:

Freezers and microwave ovens for personal food woulds be non-starters due to FDA regulations and liability issues. Thank the people who have abused such things in the past, and their lawyers.

Tom

Freezers and microwave ovens for personal food woulds be non-starters due to FDA regulations and liability issues. Thank the people who have abused such things in the past, and their lawyers.

I actually simply don't believe this. I've seen too many stationary operations with microwaves for public use (with big disclaimer stickers on them); the liability problems are apparently nonexistent.

Freezers for public use would be a different and impossible problem, but the freezers could still be behind the cafe car counter, with the food sold "as is frozen" to the customer.

If practically every moderate to upper scale roadside hotel can have microwaves in the guest rooms, what is so different about the train which would preclude such use?

 

[TinCan782]

D.P.:

Freezers and microwave ovens for personal food woulds be non-starters due to FDA regulations and liability issues. Thank the people who have abused such things in the past, and their lawyers.

Tom

Freezers and microwave ovens for personal food woulds be non-starters due to FDA regulations and liability issues. Thank the people who have abused such things in the past, and their lawyers.

I actually simply don't believe this. I've seen too many stationary operations with microwaves for public use (with big disclaimer stickers on them); the liability problems are apparently nonexistent.

Freezers for public use would be a different and impossible problem, but the freezers could still be behind the cafe car counter, with the food sold "as is frozen" to the customer.

If practically every moderate to upper scale roadside hotel can have microwaves in the guest rooms, what is so different about the train which would preclude such use?

And, a lot of them have refrigerators too!

 

[Manny T]

Per D. P. Roberts: "Yes, but... it's just a microwaved dinner. Amtrak could fire all of those people, get rid of the dining cars, etc., and replace them with a freezer & microwave in each passenger car. Passengers could bring their own frozen meals & store them in the freezer (like frozen luggage), & thaw them in the microwaves. It would be a lot cheaper, and it would be precisely the same food."

"Frozen luggage"? Thanks D.P. for the best new concept in railroading, the best turn of phrase, and the biggest laugh I've had on AU since I jointed this forum!!

 

[the_traveler]

A small nit-pic: Nothing on Amtrak is microwaved - Amtrak uses convection ovens! As far as the overhead, I do not hear anyone complaining about McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, etc... charging $4.69 for a burger which you could make at home for 25¢-50¢. Currently, McD is offering their Fish for "2 for $5". I remember when not long ago it was "2 for $3.33"!

 

[D.P. Roberts]

A small nit-pic: Nothing on Amtrak is microwaved - Amtrak uses convection ovens! As far as the overhead, I do not hear anyone complaining about McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, etc... charging $4.69 for a burger which you could make at home for 25¢-50¢. Currently, McD is offering their Fish for "2 for $5". I remember when not long ago it was "2 for $3.33"!

Well, they may use the convection oven, but it's still an entirely frozen dinner. It's one thing when a restaurant like McDonalds (or the "old" dining cars, for that matter) assemble half a dozen components into a meal (rather than making everything from scratch). It's quite another thing when the entire meal comes right out of a box - and one you could buy yourself at any supermarket.

Speaking of which, I think it's interesting that Amtrak doesn't even mention what it is. Amtrak Food Facts makes it clear that it's "produced by Amy's Kitchen", but the regular menus don't mention that at all. Personally, if I visited the dining car & ordered this item for $15.75, I'd be pretty ticked off to find out that it's just a frozen dinner. I honestly would feel like I had been misled or lied to. Ordering a meal at a restaurant - any restaurant - implies that they prepared the food there, even if it's only a minimal preparation.

 

[the_traveler]

The advertising for The Olive Garden shows the chefs going to "their kitchen in Tuscany" to learn to prepare the dinners. But the advertising never says that the meals are delivered to the restaurant already prepared frozen in packets. The chef at your local restaurant just reheats it (probably in a convection oven), puts it on a plate and maybe adds some pasta to the plate and sends it out. Many restaurants do this also. (I have worked in many restaurants and have seen thus.)

So how is this different from what Amtrak does? :huh:

 

[neroden]

I am probably spoilt by having literally *dozens* of restaurants in my small town which prepare everything from raw ingredients, most of which are quite cheap. Still, it proves it's not that hard to do.

 

[Palmetto]

That's because of all those Cornell foodies!

 

[andersone]

I find it amazing how you all can dwell on function over form. To me the proof is in the pudding, or more exactly the meal. I refrain from having an auto erection if something is microwaved or convection oven-ed but rather on how it tastes. I have never had a bad steak on Amtrak and can count on the fingers of one hand the horrible Amtrak meals I have had in fifty years. My biggest woe is the bacon is always over cooked but if this is as bad as it gets my life is far from miserable. I will vote for china over plastic but again, with respect to R.E.M. it is Not The End Of The World As We Know It. For all I care they can hang the steak out the window and let the passing torrent of air cook it as long as I get it prepared to my liking.

Is the food equal to Commander's Palace in New Orleans or the Blue Lion in Jackson WY? No. Is it better than Applebee's or Ruby's Tuesday's? Yes. When they serve an egg McMuffin in Gore Canyon I will raise my voice, but we are a long way from that.

 

[tricia]

Amtrak recently posted their November 2015 menus online, including the new entree mentioned above. To be fair, the entree includes a side salad and a roll. It's also possible that it includes side vegetables, but AFF doesn't include them, and shows the entree presented without them.

I may be wrong here (it's been a year since our trip in, ahem "first class") but unless you're a sleeper passenger you will pay extra for the side salad and roll. But, like I said, it's been a while and several of my brain cells have been victimized by fine Texas whiskey since then.

Correct that coach passengers pay extra for a side salad these days--at least when I was out west earlier this month.

 

[Hal]

D.P.:

Freezers and microwave ovens for personal food woulds be non-starters due to FDA regulations and liability issues. Thank the people who have abused such things in the past, and their lawyers.

Tom

Freezers and microwave ovens for personal food woulds be non-starters due to FDA regulations and liability issues. Thank the people who have abused such things in the past, and their lawyers.

I actually simply don't believe this. I've seen too many stationary operations with microwaves for public use (with big disclaimer stickers on them); the liability problems are apparently nonexistent.

Freezers for public use would be a different and impossible problem, but the freezers could still be behind the cafe car counter, with the food sold "as is frozen" to the customer.

If practically every moderate to upper scale roadside hotel can have microwaves in the guest rooms, what is so different about the train which would preclude such use?

The difference is they are not regulated by the FDA. I wonder though if those FDA rules might only apply to mixing personal food with Amtrak Cafe prepared and handled food. So a separate microwave for personal, not Amtrak handled food, maybe be ok. Just speculating.

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