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dnsommer2013

dnsommer2013

Train Attendant
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Jun 18, 2014
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I'm glad I got to ride The Pioneer from Salt Lake City to Seattle while it was still running. I rode it in a Superliner Economy Sleeper. I was traveling around the USA on one of those All-Aboard passes you could buy for unlimited Amtrak travel coast-to-coast.

Being from the East Coast, I was unfamiliar with the beautiful Columbia River Gorge. What a scenic ride! And the westbound Pioneer covered most of it in daylight! To me the ride rivaled (or maybe even outdid) the gorgeous trip up the Hudson River Amtrak offers back East.

In those days, when the California Zephyr reached Salt Lake City, it was split into three sections, with one going to Boise, Portland, and Seattle as The Pioneer; another to Las Vegas and Los Angeles as The Desert Wind; and, of course, the remaining cars to Reno, Sacramento, and Oakland, as the continuation of The California Zephyr.

Maybe a service like this would work better nowadays, using perhaps the train sets that would become available if all efforts to save the Southwest Chief fail and the Raton Pass route is ultimately abandoned and closed.

Anybody else here ever get to enjoy this run? Why did it fail? Any anecdotes or photos?

Thanks,

Dave
 
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I never rode the Pioneer. I was planning to ride it in 1998,but it was gone by then.. I did ride The Desert Wind a couple of times,but I always regret not having the chance to ride the Pioneer. What a beautiful stretch of country it traveled through! I've ridden every Amtrak LD train, with the exception of the Pioneer. It sure would be great if it was restored.
 
I never got to ride the Pioneer either but can do it vicariously. My uncle and aunt rode it from Chicago to Seattle in 1991 and he videotaped a lot of the trip. And gave me a copy of that tape. I converted it to DVD so whenever I want to ride the Pioneer I watch that DVD. :)
 
Is that his tape on YouTube? If not, share damnit!
 
It's a beautiful trip. I rode it in 1962 on the UP's City of Portland going to the Seattle Worlds Fair. On that trip we also took the Sam Houston Zephyr out of Houston, the Texas Zephyr Dallas to Denver, a GN train from Portland to Seattle and Seattle to Vancouver, BC, the Canadian from Vancouver to Winnipeg, the Soo Line to St Paul and the Twin Star Rocket back to Houston. Quite a trip. All in coach of course, as we had no money for first class. Could hardly afford to eat in the diner more than one meal a day.
 
I rode it in 1986! (Was I the only one? :huh: ) I agree the ride up the south shore of the Columbia is great. I think it rivals (if not beats) the northern shore route of the EB! :)

It was discontinued in the cost cutting of 1994, along with the Desert Wind, seemingly overnight without warning! :eek: That's why now you must give 180 days notice before a route is discontinued. Now JP wants urber amounts of money "to upgrade" before the Pioneer can resume.
 
the_traveler said:
I rode it in 1986! (Was I the only one? :huh: ) I agree the ride up the south shore of the Columbia is great. I think it rivals (if not beats) the northern shore route of the EB! :)

It was discontinued in the cost cutting of 1994, along with the Desert Wind, seemingly overnight without warning! :eek: That's why now you must give 180 days notice before a route is discontinued. Now JP wants urber amounts of money "to upgrade" before the Pioneer can resume.
Click to expand...
Minor correction. The Pioneer and Desert Wind were discontinued in 1997.
 
I didn't get to ride the Pioneer or the Desert Wind, always intended to and then, as Dave said, Poof! They were gone!

This is a good reminder for those of you with Trains on your Bucket List to ride them ASAP, not "Someday!"
 
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PRR 60 said:
the_traveler said:
I rode it in 1986! (Was I the only one? :huh: ) I agree the ride up the south shore of the Columbia is great. I think it rivals (if not beats) the northern shore route of the EB! :)

It was discontinued in the cost cutting of 1994, along with the Desert Wind, seemingly overnight without warning! :eek: That's why now you must give 180 days notice before a route is discontinued. Now JP wants urber amounts of money "to upgrade" before the Pioneer can resume.
Click to expand...
Minor correction. The Pioneer and Desert Wind were discontinued in 1997.
Click to expand...
They gave 180 day notices, as required by law then as now.
 
jimhudson said:
I didn't get to ride the Pioneer or the Desert Wind, always intended to and then, as Dave said, Poof! They were gone!

This is a good reminder for those of you with Trains on your Bucket List to ride them ASAP, not "Someday!"
Click to expand...
I was not quite "poof." Amtrak made its intention to discontinue both the Pioneer and the Desert Wind known well over six months in advance. Meetings were held and advocacy groups were engaged in mid and late 1996 in attempts to save the trains, but Amtrak's mind was made up. With no offers of local assistance, the trains were discontinued on May 10, 1997.
 
I did have the opportunity to ride The Desert Wind and thoroughly enjoyed the scenic trip between Los Angeles and Las Vegas before it got dark.

I had reservations for The Pioneer: Chicago to Seattle. But, upon checking in with the Conductor at Union Station before boarding, I discovered that someone elses name was on the Bedroom we had reserved. The person's name was similar, but not mine. No other sleeping accommodations were available that day. A hasty--and I mean hasty--visit to the ticket counter got us on The Empire Builder in a Seattle sleeper from which we had to change enroute to the Portland sleeper and conncecting with the Coast Starlight to Seattle. My Mother was in a wheelchair and the Red Cap and I were running through the station and down the concourse in order to board the EB. Got there just a couple of minutes before the train departed. My Mother had no idea what was going on (she only knew that there was a problem with our reservations) and it took several minutes to explain what had happened.

The Union Station ticket agent told me that my travel agent had "failed to confirm the reservation and thus the Bedroom had been re-sold". (Getting home, my travel agent denied any failure on her part, of course.) I have long wondered if that Bedroom traveled to Seattle empty and the problem was someone mis-spelled my name on the Conductor's manifest.
 
As an addition to my previous post, our checked luggage, which was on The Pioneer, beat us to Seattle. The Coast Starlight was running very late that day and The Pioneer arrived before we did. (It was supposed to be the reverse.)
 
I rode it once. Because I intended to model the north side of the gorge some day I set up a VHS-C camera pointing across the river and recorded the whole trip. At the same time I was shooting out the window with a 35 mm camera. I had a data back on the camera that would add a number to each photo as I took it. This was film not digital. It also displayed the number on the back of the camera so I would call out the number of each shot, recording it on the audio track of the tape. I think I need to dig out that stuff someday and get it all digitized.<G> Never did build that railroad but you never know.

Bill Nash
 
dnsommer2013 said:
I'm glad I got to ride The Pioneer from Salt Lake City to Seattle while it was still running. I rode it in a Superliner Economy Sleeper. I was traveling around the USA on one of those All-Aboard passes you could buy for unlimited Amtrak travel coast-to-coast.

Being from the East Coast, I was unfamiliar with the beautiful Columbia River Gorge. What a scenic ride! And the westbound Pioneer covered most of it in daylight! To me the ride rivaled (or maybe even outdid) the gorgeous trip up the Hudson River Amtrak offers back East.

In those days, when the California Zephyr reached Salt Lake City, it was split into three sections, with one going to Boise, Portland, and Seattle as The Pioneer; another to Las Vegas and Los Angeles as The Desert Wind; and, of course, the remaining cars to Reno, Sacramento, and Oakland, as the continuation of The California Zephyr.

Maybe a service like this would work better nowadays, using perhaps the train sets that would become available if all efforts to save the Southwest Chief fail and the Raton Pass route is ultimately abandoned and closed.

Anybody else here ever get to enjoy this run? Why did it fail? Any anecdotes or photos?

Thanks,

Dave
Click to expand...
I'd love to see both the Pioneer and the DW come back, but without the three-train hookup...wouldn't it be better to have varying times along the current CZ route, so that people traveling (for example) between Chicago and Denver could have multiple trains to choose from?
 
Well, I rode the Pioneer a few times, and was lucky enought to take a photo of the last run in Portland.







Actully I think the first shot was in Lacy WA.
 
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I rode both the Pioneer and the Desert Wind both pre and post Superliner.

Eventually they died due to shortage of serviceable equipment. The choice became one in which either all western LDs were to become tri-weekly or a few were to be discontinued and the rest made daily. The latter is what happened.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
 
The Pioneer Restoration website shows the route starting in Denver. I don't remember that being the case. Has time muddied up my memory? LOL

I also noticed there was a comment by the engineer who made the sad face on lead loco #323 on the last run. He said the eyes remained on #323 long after that day.
 
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The original Pioneer was a separate train that ran from Denver to Seattle with cross platform transfer from the San Francisco Zephyr at Ogden. AFAIR The through car thing happened after Superliners were introduced to 5/25/35.

The original Desert Wind similarly was a self standing Ogden to Los Angeles train with connection to SFZ at Ogden.

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Hubby and I were just about to book our very first LD train trip, when they told us that before our travel date, the train we wanted (the Pioneer) would no longer be running. Since the closest station, 100 miles from our house, was Baker City, the change required a re-computation to decide which of the 200-plus-mile-away stations we would drive to. We ended up driving north to Pasco and taking the Empire Builder.
 
My first ride was 1978 Ogden-Seattle. I had arrived Ogden on a very late SFZ that missed the connection, and Amtrak put me up in an Ogden hotel overnight. Equipment was Amfleet I.

My other ride was 1982, Salt Lake City-Seattle. Had arrived on the RGZ, which was on time, and took a taxi from the Rio Grande station to the UP station. Train was Superliners by then.
 
Rode 'em all -- both before and after Amtrak. Sleepers in pre-Amtrak days; with my kids in Superliner coaches after Amtrak took over.

Plus the Super Chief pre-Amtrak and SWC from Flagstaff to ABQ in summer of 93. Missouri River flooding annulled the eastbound SWC in ABQ. Amtrak flew the 6 of us at their expense on United from ABQ to MSP (our final destination) AT THEIR EXPENSE. Probably cost them more than our original entire train itinerary. Such a deal!

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I loved the SLC split,,,, and one would think with Las Vegas (NM) as a destination there would be demand to bring this third back,,,,
 
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