Beech Grove Update

[MrFSS]

I visit family in Indy several times a year and if I can get by Beech Grove I try to take some pictures from outside the fence. My custom has always been to stop at the Amtrak Police guardhouse and let them know what I'm doing. In years past they have never had a problem with me doing this.

Today I stopped by and was told, rather forcefully, yet politely, that they didn't want anyone taking pictures, even from outside the fence. So, I didn't even try.

I did have a chat with the police officer and he told me that a lot of Beech Grove folks have transfered to Chicago and Wilmington. This was evident as the employee parking lot wasn't anywhere a near full as it usually is on a weekday.

As one pulls up to the main entrance you can usually see 5 -6 cars sitting in front of the main building waiting repairs or just finished with repairs.

Today there were only three old baggage cars down to one side of the area and nothing else I could see. Wish I could have gotten down the fence line further, but as mentioned above, wasn't able to do that.

Anyone know if Beech Grove will be shut down any time soon in the future or has it just been downsized?

Thanks!!!

 

[WhoozOn1st]

Being told you can't take pictures is never a good sign.

I've stopped asking if it's okay, and just start shooting. If I'm asked or told to stop, I do. But asking if you can take pictures is inviting them to say no. I'd rather put the onus on the other guy to stop me. There are exceptions. When touring the Amtrak shops during the Gathering at Chicago we were guests on the property, so I asked if it was okay to get closer to the tracks and take pictures of freight action happening nearby. Permission granted.

Never been seriously hassled or detained over photography, though I've read nightmare stories of folks who have.

On the Long Island Railroad a motorman told me I wasn't supposed to be taking pictures. But he had been aware of me the whole time, and waited until he saw me putting the camera away to say anything. "Why are you telling me now?" He broke into a grin and replied "Just following the rules."

And a BART motorman at Oakland leaned out his cab window to tell me not to take pictures from the platform. I told him to smile for a shot of him. He did, and that was that. His train departed, I kept shooting, and nobody else said a word.

 

[AlanB]

On the Long Island Railroad a motorman told me I wasn't supposed to be taking pictures. But he had been aware of me the whole time, and waited until he saw me putting the camera away to say anything. "Why are you telling me now?" He broke into a grin and replied "Just following the rules."

And that LIRR engineer was wrong too! There are no rules on the LIRR, Metro North, or the NYC Subway that prohibit the taking of pictures.

 

[AlanB]

I did have a chat with the police officer and he told me that a lot of Beech Grove folks have transfered to Chicago and Wilmington. This was evident as the employee parking lot wasn't anywhere a near full as it usually is on a weekday.
Anyone know if Beech Grove will be shut down any time soon in the future or has it just been downsized?

I believe that we actually had a rather long discussion regarding the fact that preventive maintenance programs that have been highly successful for Acela, are now being applied to other divisions of Amtrak. Or perhaps it was over on OTOL that we had that discussion, I'm not sure right now.

One outcome of that program was the transferring of some jobs from BG to Chicago and Wilmington. However, there are no plans that I'm aware of to close BG.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

On the Long Island Railroad a motorman told me I wasn't supposed to be taking pictures. But he had been aware of me the whole time, and waited until he saw me putting the camera away to say anything. "Why are you telling me now?" He broke into a grin and replied "Just following the rules."

And that LIRR engineer was wrong too! There are no rules on the LIRR, Metro North, or the NYC Subway that prohibit the taking of pictures.

It was in 2004. Eastoids were still antsy after 9/11, and I don't know what rules might have been in effect. On the same cross-country journey I was asked by the conductor aboard an Acela Express to stop taking pictures because I was making other passengers "nervous."

Complied, but thought it was ridiculous. Conductor was sympathetic, and actually griped herself about the politics of fear.

 

[wayman]

It was in 2004. Eastoids were still antsy after 9/11, and I don't know what rules might have been in effect. On the same cross-country journey I was asked by the conductor aboard an Acela Express to stop taking pictures because I was making other passengers "nervous."

Wow. If I were told that, I think I'd just stand up and ask aloud "hey, I'm a tourist, is there anyone here who's uncomfortable with me taking photographs?", and if anyone actually said they were, engaging them in a dialogue. The only way to combat the culture of fear is to actually stand up to it.

What I wouldn't say explicitly, but would totally be thinking, is:

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Wow. If I were told that, I think I'd just stand up and ask aloud "hey, I'm a tourist, is there anyone here who's uncomfortable with me taking photographs?"

Depends on how you pronounce "tourist".

 

[WhoozOn1st]

It was in 2004. Eastoids were still antsy after 9/11, and I don't know what rules might have been in effect. On the same cross-country journey I was asked by the conductor aboard an Acela Express to stop taking pictures because I was making other passengers "nervous."

Wow. If I were told that, I think I'd just stand up and ask aloud "hey, I'm a tourist, is there anyone here who's uncomfortable with me taking photographs?", and if anyone actually said they were, engaging them in a dialogue. The only way to combat the culture of fear is to actually stand up to it.

What I wouldn't say explicitly, but would totally be thinking, is:

Had another photo encounter on the trip. Walking out of the Metro at L'Enfant station, my first time in D.C., turned a corner, saw the Smithsonian castle, and started taking pictures. Two cops, seemingly outta nowhere, accosted me.

"What are you doing?'"

"I'm trying to take pictures."

"Why?

"Because I'm a tourist, and taking pictures is what tourists do."

The cops walked away from me and consulted each other quietly. I was both scared and amused. Didn't move; no reason. The cops returned.

"Okay, you can take pictures. but be prepared to show your ID."

"Wanna see my ID now?"

"No."

In no mood to start an argument with cops packing heat, I walked away, not making any strange movements.

 

[MrFSS]

I've stopped asking if it's okay, and just start shooting. If I'm asked or told to stop, I do. But asking if you can take pictures is inviting them to say no. I'd rather put the onus on the other guy to stop me. There are exceptions. When touring the Amtrak shops during the Gathering at Chicago we were guests on the property, so I asked if it was okay to get closer to the tracks and take pictures of freight action happening nearby. Permission granted.

Patrick - I assume you've never been to the BG facility. The best places for pictures, even from "behind the fence" are still well within and on Amtrak property. It is between employee parking lots and the buildings where the fence is that I need to go. I have to pass the guard shack to get to those places. And, it is a big enough area that I have to drive into and past the employee lots.

It isn't like you can stand on the street and see much. So, I'm not about to drive onto their property without first asking permission. They have big signs saying "No Trespassing"

 

[Rail Freak]

It was in 2004. Eastoids were still antsy after 9/11, and I don't know what rules might have been in effect. On the same cross-country journey I was asked by the conductor aboard an Acela Express to stop taking pictures because I was making other passengers "nervous."

Wow. If I were told that, I think I'd just stand up and ask aloud "hey, I'm a tourist, is there anyone here who's uncomfortable with me taking photographs?", and if anyone actually said they were, engaging them in a dialogue. The only way to combat the culture of fear is to actually stand up to it.

What I wouldn't say explicitly, but would totally be thinking, is:

Had another photo encounter on the trip. Walking out of the Metro at L'Enfant station, my first time in D.C., turned a corner, saw the Smithsonian castle, and started taking pictures. Two cops, seemingly outta nowhere, accosted me.

"What are you doing?'"

"I'm trying to take pictures."

"Why?

"Because I'm a tourist, and taking pictures is what tourists do."

The cops walked away from me and consulted each other quietly. I was both scared and amused. Didn't move; no reason. The cops returned.

"Okay, you can take pictures. but be prepared to show your ID."

"Wanna see my ID now?"

"No."

In no mood to start an argument with cops packing heat, I walked away, not making any strange movements.

WUSS instead of Whooz

 

[WhoozOn1st]

I've stopped asking if it's okay, and just start shooting. If I'm asked or told to stop, I do. But asking if you can take pictures is inviting them to say no. I'd rather put the onus on the other guy to stop me. There are exceptions. When touring the Amtrak shops during the Gathering at Chicago we were guests on the property, so I asked if it was okay to get closer to the tracks and take pictures of freight action happening nearby. Permission granted.

Patrick - I assume you've never been to the BG facility. The best places for pictures, even from "behind the fence" are still well within and on Amtrak property. It is between employee parking lots and the buildings where the fence is that I need to go. I have to pass the guard shack to get to those places. And, it is a big enough area that I have to drive into and past the employee lots.

It isn't like you can stand on the street and see much. So, I'm not about to drive onto their property without first asking permission. They have big signs saying "No Trespassing"

I admit that I was mixing apples and oranges.

 

[Acela150]

With the Amtrak Cops I tell them I'm from Canada. They always buy it. Of course they are the worst cops of any railroad.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

With the Amtrak Cops I tell them I'm from Canada. They always buy it.

HAHAHA!!! Reminds me of a time I went to an airshow with a buddy, determined to get pictures of myself with WW II warbirds on display. The planes were roped off and guarded on static display. You couldn't get to 'em. Me and the buddy worked out a little script. I would walk up and start speaking pig German. Buddy would "translate" that my father had flown for the Luftwaffe, and that I would like a picture of myself with the type of aircraft that shot him down over Germany. Worked about 10 times, and they never caught on that while I only spoke pig German, I also understood English perfectly. A riot, and I still have the pics (old film prints). After completing the mission, me and the buddy cackled our heads off for days.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

And that reminds me in the early 80s of walking on the flight line at Travis AFB, right up to a bunch of civilian craft parked for an airshow the next day. Right then a Ape jeep comes careening down the tarmac, stops right in front of us and one cop jumps out, camera in hand and says "Is that a Jenny?"

He limbed back in the jeep and they bumbled away. We had complete run of the flightline all afternoon. A B-52 parked in front of us later and did an 8 engine run-up. Even with hands over ears, we were deafened for days.

Nowadays they'd shoot first...

 

[WhoozOn1st]

A B-52 parked in front of us later and did an 8 engine run-up.

8-engine run-up. Wow. Thats almost a squadron of A-4s (McCain plane).
Working for the Navy, we joked that the F-14 was the most efficient way to turn JP-5 into noise.

 

[RailFanLNK]

Was on the Carolinian leaving NYC in June and the assistant conductor saw me taking pictures. She told me to get up out of my seat, walked me to the rear of the train and curtly told me that you can't take pictures on Amtrak trains. I was nervous but I held my ground and said, "I've never heard of that rule and I have travelled Amtrak for 3 years and no one has ever said anything like that to me!" I then said something else thinking she was jacking me around so she backtracked and said that "if a Amtrak train has a Sightseer Lounge car on it, then its ok to take pictures." She said thats on the "western" routes. At that time I knew she was a jerk and was jacking me around. But I didn't want to get thrown off the train. I asked other Amtrak employees in DC and on other trains as we made our way back to Sightseer Lounge territory (thats western routes, not to get mixed up with the states that were part of the Louisiana Purchase) :lol: and all of them said that its incorrect about taking pictures. So, I got an *** and I missed some great pics from NYC-WAS.

 

[wayman]

Was on the Carolinian leaving NYC in June and the assistant conductor saw me taking pictures. She told me to get up out of my seat, walked me to the rear of the train and curtly told me that you can't take pictures on Amtrak trains. I was nervous but I held my ground and said, "I've never heard of that rule and I have travelled Amtrak for 3 years and no one has ever said anything like that to me!" I then said something else thinking she was jacking me around so she backtracked and said that "if a Amtrak train has a Sightseer Lounge car on it, then its ok to take pictures." She said thats on the "western" routes. At that time I knew she was a jerk and was jacking me around. But I didn't want to get thrown off the train. I asked other Amtrak employees in DC and on other trains as we made our way back to Sightseer Lounge territory (thats western routes, not to get mixed up with the states that were part of the Louisiana Purchase) :lol: and all of them said that its incorrect about taking pictures. So, I got an *** and I missed some great pics from NYC-WAS.

Wow, that's definitely a crew member's name to get and submit to Amtrak with a letter of complaint

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I love them doing that. When they do make up some ridiculous rule I whip out my System Timetable and ask them where it says that.

 

[dan72]

I'm surprised to hear about the NEC/Acela issues. Last year when I took the Acela from BOS to NYP, I took many, many pictures and even some video and nobody even batted an eye. And this was after a heightened terror alert had just been issued a couple of days prior for the East Coast.

Al, it sounds like you had a real piece of work on your hands. Sheesh, get off the power trip already! I'll be sure to have a system timetable handy and ask where that policy is stated if it ever happens!

Dan

 

[wayman]

Al, it sounds like you had a real piece of work on your hands. Sheesh, get off the power trip already! I'll be sure to have a system timetable handy and ask where that policy is stated if it ever happens!

I'd love to know whether these "policies" are generally the creation of the individual on-board crew members (and station agents) who we've encountered, or whether there's someone at a management level creating these "policies" and handing them down (thus giving the crew and station folks the sense that they're real policies, since they've been given them by a higher authority).

 

[VentureForth]

Back when I was working at Tokyo Disneyland (in the late 80s), I was trained that guests were not to use personal radios during the parade because of potential interference between the coordinated music on the floats, park speakers, and even parade route leads who use radios to manage crowds, talk to fload drivers etc. Since there was no way of determining what the radio band a guest was using without taking it and examining it, it was easiest to just simply ask them not to use them.

The policy has since changed because the interference was proven to be minimal.

BUT, I got in trouble once because I insisted a guest stop talking on his cell phone (this was when it was a real big deal to have one of those big, fat Motorola flip phones). He griped at me telling me it wasn't a radio; it was a phone.

Sure, had I been a bit older than 16, I would have been able to discern that fact. I was following the rules, but I wasn't using judgement.

 

[Crescent Mark]

I just took 4 separate Amtrak trips in the last week. I took pictures of the stations, of the platforms, of the trains in the platforms. Took video of the trains arriving and leaving. Took great video of the Carolinian at 5am in Charlotte backing up through the station to get turned on the wye. Got some nice NS video too.

Everyone saw me and said nothing about it. Others had their digital cams taking pics too. When I got off the Crescent in Atlanta this morning, I wanted to get some good pics of the train. I asked the coach attendant if I could make a quick run up to the front and see the engines. She said yeah, but they don't like it when you go up there, but if you make it quick, they'll probably let you. After taking pics of the platform and train sitting in the station, I walked up to the baggage car. The conductor (who was unloading luggage) told me to go back the other way to the station. I told him I'd just like to see the engine, and he said that that was fine, but just don't get in the way of anything. Another guy and I walked to the front and took some pics, then walked back, etc. All station attendants and Amtrak staff on my entire journey were totally fine with my picture taking and video taking. Great trip, got a lot of nice pics. Layover in Charlotte was great. Just walk outside the station to the right, up to the fence, and you have NS freights zooming by right in your face. NS employees would drive up and go to work in their office next to the station, and were totally fine with me standing on NS property over by their building to take pictures/video. Everyone was very nice.

 

[AlanB]

Al, it sounds like you had a real piece of work on your hands. Sheesh, get off the power trip already! I'll be sure to have a system timetable handy and ask where that policy is stated if it ever happens!

I'd love to know whether these "policies" are generally the creation of the individual on-board crew members (and station agents) who we've encountered, or whether there's someone at a management level creating these "policies" and handing them down (thus giving the crew and station folks the sense that they're real policies, since they've been given them by a higher authority).

Frankly it's probably a bit of both. In some cases it's employees who think that they know best or perhaps misunderstood what some higher up was saying. In other cases it probably is a low level manager who again either misunderstood something or thought that he knew best. However, I don't believe that in any case it's high level management saying these things.

And personally I would carry a copy of the Amtrak press release that talks about the annual Amtrak photo contest and show that to the employee and ask them to explain how you can possibly enter that contest if you can't take pictures? Much less why would Amtrak have a policy that prohibits pictures when they are running such a contest?

 

[wayman]

And personally I would carry a copy of the Amtrak press release that talks about the annual Amtrak photo contest and show that to the employee and ask them to explain how you can possibly enter that contest if you can't take pictures? Much less why would Amtrak have a policy that prohibits pictures when they are running such a contest?

Excellent idea! Where can I find this press release? I'd never heard of this contest before just now.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Here's the web announcement for the 2009 calender contest.

Here's a "Safety First" note from that page;

Contestants are reminded to stay away from tracks, moving trains, yards, railroad structures (such as bridges, trestles, towers and wires) and the railroad right-of-way. Photographers must not trespass on railroad property or on private property adjacent to the railroad. Stay in public access areas such as stations, sidewalks or parking lots. All participants agree to assume the risk of harm and release Amtrak from all liability for personal injury and loss of property. Photographers are reminded that railroad tracks, trestles, yards and equipment are private property and that trespassers are subject to arrest and fines. Some stations served by Amtrak trains require advance permission for photography. Always obey all local rules and laws.

See the bit about "Some stations served by Amtrak trains require advance permission for photography."?