best amtrak myth

[DivMiler]

Here.

(Above is link to state-by-state station information).

Thanks, AlanB!

 

[George Harris]

From Reason.com: Amtrak Sucks: Traveling Soviet-style aboard America's $30,000,000,000.00 nostalgia toy
Google "reason magazine" and "Amtrak" and you'll probably come up with lots of headlines that most here would dismiss as myths.

The word Reason in the name of that organization is just aspirational. Unreason would be more realistic.

"Reason" "Wendell Cox" and a few others like them are wind up dolls. Pull their string and they will come up iwth the same statements every time. It is very simple, If it any form of passenger carrying rail system, it is either a waste of money to build and operate, has no ridership, a blight on the landscape, or whatever. An analysis of who funds these operations would seem well worth doing.

 

[AlanB]

As far as myths; How about "Satisfaction Guaranteed":blink: :blink: :blink:

Actually that wasn't a myth, Amtrak handed out thousands of vouchers for millions of dollars because of that program.

 

[sunchaser]

From Reason.com: Amtrak Sucks: Traveling Soviet-style aboard America's $30,000,000,000.00 nostalgia toy

Loving the comic book, is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Amtrakman!

Fantastic! Once I quit rolling around laughing I'll finish this post! :lol:

Really good satire, especially the "old timer foamers and rail buffs", the blame UP is another highlight! Good thing that none of our members would ever be like this and that Amtrak is so well run and has such "World Class" Service! :lol:

there's an old saying about those that can't laugh @ themselves will end up crying, amen brother!

That was so funny! But of course at the end it was filled with false info on how & why trains are subsidized, leaving out the facts about the trains & government subsidizing the airlines!

Some of my favorite myths are-

It's too expensive.

Only the rich/retired take trains.

Amtrak doesn't come to (insert town name here).

It's just a LAND CRUISE!

Only people who hate flying/are afraid to fly/ are a liberal/are a foamer/ love trains/hate cars/miss 'the old days'/ want to curb greenhouse gases take Amtrak.

Or- only the poor people take Amtrak (this also applies to any public transportation here).

 

[AlanB]

From Reason.com: Amtrak Sucks: Traveling Soviet-style aboard America's $30,000,000,000.00 nostalgia toy
Google "reason magazine" and "Amtrak" and you'll probably come up with lots of headlines that most here would dismiss as myths.

The word Reason in the name of that organization is just aspirational. Unreason would be more realistic.

"Reason" "Wendell Cox" and a few others like them are wind up dolls. Pull their string and they will come up iwth the same statements every time. It is very simple, If it any form of passenger carrying rail system, it is either a waste of money to build and operate, has no ridership, a blight on the landscape, or whatever. An analysis of who funds these operations would seem well worth doing.

Many have tried George, but it's very hard. In fact Wendell has actually gone on record as saying "it's not important who funds his operations", and has out and out refused to reveal any records. However, a few people have managed to tie a few links between him and big oil, airlines, and the auto makers.

 

[pebbleworm]

The Reason article is actually pretty close to my experiences on the Coast Starlight, so it's not that much of a myth! The comic does show a mean-spirited lack of understanding, but the author obviously rode the train!

 

[DET63]

However, a few people have managed to tie a few links between him and big oil, airlines, and the auto makers.

To be fair, though, is there anyone who isn't someone (important) in this country that isn't tied in one way or twelve to the airlines, oil companies, and automakers?

The comic does show a mean-spirited lack of understanding, but the author obviously rode the train!

Or is closely connected to someone who did, though I believe the OTP of the Starlight has gotten much, much better in the past few years.

 

[pebbleworm]

It has, but it's still a long slow grind of a trip. Driving from Klamath Falls to Redding takes 3 hours vs. 6 on the train, and I have woken up in Chico at 6:30 (although in 2002). Recently I've taken the Coast Starlight between Oakland and LA, and even with a sleeper and the Pacific Parlor Car as benefits it is too slow and too late be decent transportation between those cities. I'm now a confirmed San Joaquin fan, even with a (painless) 2 hour bus leg to LA or 3 hours to Santa Barbara. To me the ocean view is just not worth the extra time, and why bother with the 30 mph route between Klamath Falls and Redding in the dark? Admittedly it is spectacular when the train is 3 or more hours late.

 

[jmbgeg]

Actually the biggest myth about Amtrak was the one sold to Congress and President Nixon back when Amtrak was created. That myth of course was that Amtrak would somehow be profitable. And it's a myth that has haunted Amtrak for all of its years.
How anyone ever expected to take a bunch of money loosing passenger RR's, roll them into one big company, and somehow suddenly and miraculously turn it into a profitable business is beyond me. I could see with the right management and circumstances (like not having to beg each year for money), how Amtrak might be able to one day reach a point where it covers its operating expenses. But it will always need help with capital expenses, especially for as long as it continues to own track.

I am sure that this has been said before, but all should consider the fact that the federal and state governments subsidize operations at some smaller airports so that they can get commuter airlines to fly there and connect smaller towns to the major airline hubs. Without the long distance trains that cross the country through small towns east and west; north and south; they would be impaired, and there is some broader economic development value to that occuring.

 

[jphjaxfl]

Actually the biggest myth about Amtrak was the one sold to Congress and President Nixon back when Amtrak was created. That myth of course was that Amtrak would somehow be profitable. And it's a myth that has haunted Amtrak for all of its years.
How anyone ever expected to take a bunch of money loosing passenger RR's, roll them into one big company, and somehow suddenly and miraculously turn it into a profitable business is beyond me. I could see with the right management and circumstances (like not having to beg each year for money), how Amtrak might be able to one day reach a point where it covers its operating expenses. But it will always need help with capital expenses, especially for as long as it continues to own track.

Actually those who were involved in creating Amtrak expected it to be gone in 10 years. The first President of Amtrak came from the Airline Industry. The first badly needed locomotives that were built for Amtrak were really better for freight trains than for passenger trains but they were purchased with the thought that they could be sold to the freight railroads after Amtrak no longer existed. But Congress has kept Amtrak alive soemtimes just barely and the result is the Amtrak we have today.

 

[had8ley]

I hope someone from Amtrak upper management reads this~ I ride the Crescent quite frequently. Unfortunately, it is crewed by a NYP diner and the rest of the train is NOL crewed. They make up "laws" as they go along. The biggest myth about this train is opening of the diner out of NOL. I rode two weeks and it didn't open until Picayune. I called the on board service manager and yes, this is the total truth, "I thought we had service from the time the train left NOL." I guess when the cats in the office the RR belongs to whoever wants to run it.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I hope someone from Amtrak upper management reads this~ I ride the Crescent quite frequently. Unfortunately, it is crewed by a NYP diner and the rest of the train is NOL crewed. They make up "laws" as they go along. The biggest myth about this train is opening of the diner out of NOL. I rode two weeks and it didn't open until Picayune. I called the on board service manager and yes, this is the total truth, "I thought we had service from the time the train left NOL." I guess when the cats in the office the RR belongs to whoever wants to run it.

Sounds like someone needs to get out of the office and ride the train more! On my last trip on the Eagle from CHI-AUS the new route manager was aboard (she told us she preferred to be called a "Supervisor")but only rode as far as STL. She did take notes in the diner, the lounge, visited in the coaches and talked a little with the pax.

You are correct that when the boss is not around most folks probably tend to do it the easy way, which to them is "my way"!Amtrak definitely needs more supervision and training of OBS on the LD routes! Lastly, is it a NY state of mind thing vs. the NOL laid back, let the good times roll crew?

 

[zoltan]

Another good one is speeding up the Adirondack's route. The only way that would be possible is either build the track on, over or under Lake Champlain, or tunnel under the Adirondack Mountains for the full length - in order to get straight track! The route follows the shoreline, so there are no other choices!

I actually heard that from the passenger next to me on the Adirondack last time I caught it, that they were planning HSR to Montreal!

They mentioned it to the conductor, and he said "maybe in your lifetime, but I don't think mine".

"Oh, is there Amtrak? What is that?"

Or, on a slight variant, I was waiting for my flight from Toronto to DC, and mentioned that the delay was worrying me, as I needed to make the last train from DC to Frederick (which is not Amtrak, but the MARC train). They replied "there's no train to Frederick!" And the woman next to us in the departure lounge told me he was definitely right!

I took him upstairs myself and pointed him to the number 23 bus and told him he had time to get the "real" train.

What a good samaritan you are, sir! I try to do the same when I see or am approached by someone in need of help, yet I have seen quite a few railfans that could easily answer peoples' questions about the trains, but are unhelpful towards them.

 

[casey]

I was talking to a kid yesterday at a store who saw my Glacier National Park jacket and mentioned that his uncle lived near there. Told him I'd taken the train to Montana, and he said he should look into that. Turns out his uncle lives in Whitefish, and I told him the EB actually stops there. He was really impressed. I guess it's not a myth, but so many folks have no idea that Amtrak serves cities they're supposedly familiar with...

This is very true, I had seen documentaries on train travel, and It looked awesome. I decided to go on a train thinking it would be a 3 or four hour drive to catch one. I live FOUR miles the station. I have lived here for the majority of my life and never knew. I am looking for a new job, anyone know if Amtrak is any good? I think if would be a lot of fun for a year or two, maybe longer.

 

[zoltan]

I am looking for a new job, anyone know if Amtrak is any good? I think if would be a lot of fun for a year or two, maybe longer.

I move that we do not come down too hard on this chap for this remark...

 

[DowneasterPassenger]

I thought of another myth. I've heard conductors announce "By Federal law, smoking is prohibited on ALL Amtrak Trains." But that can't be true because smoking IS allowed on the Auto Train. AFAIK it is not a law but an Amtrak policy.

I've also heard "By FDA law" (or sometimes "California Dept. of Health") "no outside food or beverages are allowed in the dining car." Is that really a law or just Amtrak policy?

 

[BlakeTyner]

I thought of another myth. I've heard conductors announce "By Federal law, smoking is prohibited on ALL Amtrak Trains." But that can't be true because smoking IS allowed on the Auto Train. AFAIK it is not a law but an Amtrak policy.
I've also heard "By FDA law" (or sometimes "California Dept. of Health") "no outside food or beverages are allowed in the dining car." Is that really a law or just Amtrak policy?

I've heard the FDA law cited, though I never have checked it out. It seems plausible.

The no smoking policy was apparently a result of Amtrak's Customer Advisory Commission (or whatever they're called.) They at least take credit for the policy in their publications.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

the FDA thing could be true. in a bowling ally i used to bowl at this lady bought her own bottled water in with her and one of the employees said she couldn't have outside food or drinks as it was against the law by the FDA.

 

[sunchaser]

I thought of another myth. I've heard conductors announce "By Federal law, smoking is prohibited on ALL Amtrak Trains." But that can't be true because smoking IS allowed on the Auto Train. AFAIK it is not a law but an Amtrak policy.
I've also heard "By FDA law" (or sometimes "California Dept. of Health") "no outside food or beverages are allowed in the dining car." Is that really a law or just Amtrak policy?

Check out this link.

I think the reason smoking is not allowed on the trains is because it is technically federal property.

I do wish there was a place on the trains to smoke-but I also am aware that is bothers some people too.

It's too bad that there isn't a 'smoking car' of sorts. I know it's unlikely that will ever happen on the other trains.

WhenI first started looking at riding Amtrak I was pleased to see the Auto Train had a smoking area-until I realized they only run back east! Bummer!

Most states have some law on the books about smoking indoors in public places.

 

[Heading North]

The total smoking ban on LD trains is also fairly recent... I remember being on the CZ in 2003 when one of the coaches still had a lower-level smoking room. I was glad, too, because my seatmate kept getting up to use it.

 

[AlanB]

I thought of another myth. I've heard conductors announce "By Federal law, smoking is prohibited on ALL Amtrak Trains." But that can't be true because smoking IS allowed on the Auto Train. AFAIK it is not a law but an Amtrak policy.
I've also heard "By FDA law" (or sometimes "California Dept. of Health") "no outside food or beverages are allowed in the dining car." Is that really a law or just Amtrak policy?

Check out this link.

I think the reason smoking is not allowed on the trains is because it is technically federal property.

I do wish there was a place on the trains to smoke-but I also am aware that is bothers some people too.

It's too bad that there isn't a 'smoking car' of sorts. I know it's unlikely that will ever happen on the other trains.

WhenI first started looking at riding Amtrak I was pleased to see the Auto Train had a smoking area-until I realized they only run back east! Bummer!

Most states have some law on the books about smoking indoors in public places.

Amtrak for a number of years did run all long distance trains with a special "smoker's penalty box" as many called it after just smoking anywhere was stopped. It was an enclosed room in the lower level of certain Superliner coaches, where the baggage is now stored in baggage coaches. On single level trains it was a room built on one side of the cafe car, which franly was a better idea than having it downstairs in a coach. On the Auto Train, the room is downstairs in the cafe cars.

The smoker's rooms went away in part because of complaints from passengers sitting upstairs in the smoking coach, and complaints were made worse by crews that wouldn't let people change seats when they complained about the smoke. However, a much larger reason for their going away was the fact that the smoker's did themselves in. First, too often there would be too many in the room. That meant that the smoke would get rather thick. So some genious would find something to prop the door open with, which of course allowed the smoke to billow throughout the coach or cafe.

Secondly, too many were simply pigs. They'd leave butts all over, they drop their butts in soda or coffee cups, that weren't totally empty and then leave them there in the room. Eventually they'd spill making a wonderful sticky mess.

Amtrak finally got tired of the complaints and the mess, and simply banned smoking all together.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Re Smoking: Why is smoking still permitted on the AutoTrain? I would think the same rules/laws would apply to all Amtrak trains? Also in some jurisdictions its against the law to smoke in ANY workplace which an Amtrak car certainly is!

I smoked for 35 years, its a disgusting/junky habit, probably the hardest to quit but millions of people do it that say they want to quit! Im not a fanatic ex-smoker, I believe there should be designated smoking areas for smokers that dont infringe on non-smokers space and right to be smoke free and this does NOT include trains in any car or @ any time where pax and OBS have a right to be smoke free!

I would suggest that Amtrak go ahead and stop smoking on the Autotrain, catering to bad habits is not good business and just because the pax on this train are old and rich :lol: doesnt make it any different! If someone can convince me I'm wrong I'll admit it, but IMHO its only common sense to have the same rules/regs for all trains! :blink:

 

[the_traveler]

Re Smoking: Why is smoking still permitted on the AutoTrain? I would think the same rules/laws would apply to all Amtrak trains? Also in some jurisdictions its against the law to smoke in ANY workplace which an Amtrak car certainly is!

On all the other trains, people can get off every few hours at "smoke stops" to smoke. But on the Auto Train, there are no stops between Lorton and Sanford! (The only "stop" is a crew change during the night, but passengers can not get off.)

That is why it is allowed on the Auto Train!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Re Smoking: Why is smoking still permitted on the AutoTrain? I would think the same rules/laws would apply to all Amtrak trains? Also in some jurisdictions its against the law to smoke in ANY workplace which an Amtrak car certainly is!

On all the other trains, people can get off every few hours at "smoke stops" to smoke. But on the Auto Train, there are no stops between Lorton and Sanford! (The only "stop" is a crew change during the night, but passengers can not get off.)

That is why it is allowed on the Auto Train!

OK Dave, in that case what about the Sunset Ltd., I rode it this summer and we were not allowed to get off between SAS and El Paso, that was an 10hr. trip (we did stop in Del Rio and Alpine :lol: but no-one was allowed to get off!)! Then we spent an hour and a half in El Paso and didnt stop again until we got to Tuscon, another 6 hrs. and an hour stop. Then we werent allowed off the train until LAX the next morning, another 8 hr. run!Also the Texas Eagle has no smoke stops between STL and LRK,another overnight run, sometimes no stop again until DAL, it seems the same to me?

Its a workplace, its illegal in most places (tried to smoke around an airport or on a plane or bus lately?)and I still say it makes no sense, people fly across the Pacific and other long haul routes without smoking, surely an overnight ride when you're mostly asleep can be smoke free????

 

[had8ley]

I thought of another myth. I've heard conductors announce "By Federal law, smoking is prohibited on ALL Amtrak Trains." But that can't be true because smoking IS allowed on the Auto Train. AFAIK it is not a law but an Amtrak policy.
I've also heard "By FDA law" (or sometimes "California Dept. of Health") "no outside food or beverages are allowed in the dining car." Is that really a law or just Amtrak policy?

Check out this link.

I think the reason smoking is not allowed on the trains is because it is technically federal property.

I do wish there was a place on the trains to smoke-but I also am aware that is bothers some people too.

It's too bad that there isn't a 'smoking car' of sorts. I know it's unlikely that will ever happen on the other trains.

WhenI first started looking at riding Amtrak I was pleased to see the Auto Train had a smoking area-until I realized they only run back east! Bummer!

Most states have some law on the books about smoking indoors in public places.

Amtrak for a number of years did run all long distance trains with a special "smoker's penalty box" as many called it after just smoking anywhere was stopped. It was an enclosed room in the lower level of certain Superliner coaches, where the baggage is now stored in baggage coaches. On single level trains it was a room built on one side of the cafe car, which franly was a better idea than having it downstairs in a coach. On the Auto Train, the room is downstairs in the cafe cars.

The smoker's rooms went away in part because of complaints from passengers sitting upstairs in the smoking coach, and complaints were made worse by crews that wouldn't let people change seats when they complained about the smoke. However, a much larger reason for their going away was the fact that the smoker's did themselves in. First, too often there would be too many in the room. That meant that the smoke would get rather thick. So some genious would find something to prop the door open with, which of course allowed the smoke to billow throughout the coach or cafe.

Secondly, too many were simply pigs. They'd leave butts all over, they drop their butts in soda or coffee cups, that weren't totally empty and then leave them there in the room. Eventually they'd spill making a wonderful sticky mess.

Amtrak finally got tired of the complaints and the mess, and simply banned smoking all together.

Great synopsis Alan but only want to add that the brown baggers used the smoking rooms for their private bars further adding to the consternation.