Bids for potential new Hoosier State operator?

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neroden

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I read that as IP would provide their rolling stock in place of the Horizons and the HS would continue as a 4 day a week train. But how much money would that save?
This depends entirely on how much Amtrak is charging for the use of the Horizons, which we don't know.
I notice that there is *still* no agreed-upon capital charge in the monthly reports. I suspect that Wisconsin was fishing for competitive pricing to compare to the Horizons, and perhaps Indiana is really doing the same thing.
 
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edjbox

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Other than amtrak, Herzog and Iowa pacific are your best bets. Capital corridor seems interesting but doesn't have an impressive service resume and the other railservices one or whatever is out do its league
 

edjbox

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Also,anyone know where those 50 hi level cars are stored. I thought they disappeared long ago (except the coast starlight)
 

MikeM

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Also,anyone know where those 50 hi level cars are stored. I thought they disappeared long ago (except the coast starlight)
There were a bunch of high levels stored outside of St Louis at Gateway Rail Services, including the one parlor car that Amtrak sold. Wondering if those could be the cars, or if there are more elsewhere? If you google Gateway in East St Louis, you can see pictures of the cars on google earth or street view. I remember someone posting on a discussion board that they were able to tour a few of the cars several years ago, but the owners of the site have a pretty firm no railfan policy so visiting other than from a nearby overpass or streets is as close as you'll get. Otherwise, I've seen one car that is privately owned advertised a while back for sale, and I think a handful may have escaped to private ownership.
 

Just-Thinking-51

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East Saint Louis is mostly Transdorm cars. As far as I can tell. Also not even close to 50.
 

jis

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There were a total of 37 High Level Transition Coaches in the original Santa Fe Fleet. Of these 35 were converted to HEP Coach Dorms (Transition). In addition four plain High level Coaches were also converted to Coach Dorm during HEP Conversion. Of this fleet of 39 High Level Coach Dorms 7 were scratched due to wrecks. All the wrecks were original Transition Coaches. So at retirement there were 28 Transition Coach Dorms and 4 Coach Dorms, a total of 32 Coach Dorms left. They were all retired in Jan 03. Source "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David Warner and Elbert Smith.
 

Anderson

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I do wonder if IN couldn't run a "daily" service that runs independently on non-Cardinal days but runs on the back of the Cardinal on Cardinal days.
 

jis

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Other than amtrak, Herzog and Iowa pacific are your best bets. Capital corridor seems interesting but doesn't have an impressive service resume and the other railservices one or whatever is out do its league
Please note that Amtrak and Iowa Pacific is a joint bid, not two separate bids. The North Carolina Piedmont model is mentioned by Ed Ellis, with Iowa Pacific playing the role of the State of North Carolina in this case, i.e. providing equipment and such, and perhaps even OBS. Not very clear on that detail in his statement.

Similarly the Herzog bid is in conjunction with Passenger Transportation Specialist Inc. of Oklahoma City.

It would appear that there is no independent Amtrak bid, other than the one with IP. Alternatively the number "four" as in the total number of bids submitted, is incorrect.
 

rickycourtney

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It would appear that there is no independent Amtrak bid, other than the one with IP. Alternatively the number "four" as in the total number of bids submitted, is incorrect.
Source?

If it's the Trains article please post a fair use excerpt for the rest of us to see.
 
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PRR 60

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Other than amtrak, Herzog and Iowa pacific are your best bets. Capital corridor seems interesting but doesn't have an impressive service resume and the other railservices one or whatever is out do its league
Please note that Amtrak and Iowa Pacific is a joint bid, not two separate bids. The North Carolina Piedmont model is mentioned by Ed Ellis, with Iowa Pacific playing the role of the State of North Carolina in this case, i.e. providing equipment and such, and perhaps even OBS. Not very clear on that detail in his statement.
Similarly the Herzog bid is in conjunction with Passenger Transportation Specialist Inc. of Oklahoma City.

It would appear that there is no independent Amtrak bid, other than the one with IP. Alternatively the number "four" as in the total number of bids submitted, is incorrect.
Given the fact that Amtrak has a fixed formula to assign costs for state-supported services, how much leeway do they have to "bid." Given that they are charging Indiana $2.7 million for a year of Hoosier State operation based on the formula, are they really able to bid say $2.2 million? Wouldn't that tell Indiana and all other states that the formula is bogus, and throw all the state cost assessments out the window? It would seem that the "formula," leaned on by Amtrak to squeeze more funding out of the states. has kind of painted Amtrak into a corner with regard to putting together a competitive bid for states that consider looking elsewhere for an operator.
 
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jis

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That is the reason that it will be interesting to see this unfold. That might explain in an odd way why there is no independent Amtrak bid too! It may set a pattern of Amtrak entering into JVs with other operators for services, which won;t necessarily be a bad thing.
 

railbuck

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Update: http://www.indystar.com/story/money/2014/06/14/clock-ticking-amtrak-viability/10539957/

"The people who we're looking at think they can do it for about the same, maybe less with new cars and Wi-Fi," Zier said. Food service also might be available, he said.

At least two of the plans have piqued Lafayette Mayor Tony Roswarski's curiosity.

"There were a couple proposals I didn't feel were good for the community," Roswarski said, "but there were two proposals I thought were very, very good. I thought they did have potential."
 

neroden

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Oh come on, Mayor Roswarski, don't keep us in suspense -- which two proposals do you like?
 
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Just-Thinking-51

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I would be quite happy just to read all four of them. The mayor reply sounds like a standard politic reply, I doubt he has read them or even seen them yet. But his statement has been read by people all over the country / globe.
 

XHRTSP

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I know it's naive to think this would happen, but if suddenly the Cardinal goes daily, where would that leave the private operator? Does the state suddenly get two a day service half the tme?
 
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Trogdor

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Oh come on, Mayor Roswarski, don't keep us in suspense -- which two proposals do you like?
I would be quite happy just to read all four of them. The mayor reply sounds like a standard politic reply, I doubt he has read them or even seen them yet. But his statement has been read by people all over the country / globe.
Or perhaps there are confidentiality clauses in those contracts that prevent details from being released until they at least have some kind of tentative agreement signed.
 

neroden

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I know it's naive to think this would happen, but if suddenly the Cardinal goes daily, where would that leave the private operator? Does the state suddenly get two a day service half the tme?
I think we all hope that the private operator would provide a daily service and the Cardinal would provide a second daily service; two a day is completely justifiable. But in reality, who knows what would happen.
 

Anderson

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I know it's naive to think this would happen, but if suddenly the Cardinal goes daily, where would that leave the private operator? Does the state suddenly get two a day service half the tme?
I think we all hope that the private operator would provide a daily service and the Cardinal would provide a second daily service; two a day is completely justifiable. But in reality, who knows what would happen.
The Cardinal's route definitely justifies twice-daily service, but the same can be said about a good portion of the system. The main problem the Cap, LSL, and Cardinal all face is that they can either be focused on connecting in Chicago from the west or connecting in Washington/New York to the east/south. It is hard to do both (the Cap can't connect with the Star SB, the LSL doesn't connect with anything SB, and neither does the Cardinal effectively connect with anything SB, perhaps excepting the bus link CVS-RVR). The Cap is the closest to doing it, but even there it is a bit of a kludge.

Edit: The Cardinal is particularly disadvantaged because it goes the "long way around" and you can't do much with the track in West Virginia without a lot of money and dynamite. Having one schedule that focuses on CIN-NYP and another that focuses on CVS-CHI would probably best, and I know VA could make good use of the second train much as IN could.
 
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afigg

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The Cardinal's route definitely justifies twice-daily service, but the same can be said about a good portion of the system. The main problem the Cap, LSL, and Cardinal all face is that they can either be focused on connecting in Chicago from the west or connecting in Washington/New York to the east/south. It is hard to do both (the Cap can't connect with the Star SB, the LSL doesn't connect with anything SB, and neither does the Cardinal effectively connect with anything SB, perhaps excepting the bus link CVS-RVR). The Cap is the closest to doing it, but even there it is a bit of a kludge.
The eastbound Cardinal does connect to the southbound Crescent at CVS. There are people who take this connection. The northbound Crescent also provide a connection to the westbound Cardinal at CVS, although the layover is on the long side. But then given the schedule reliability of the eastbound Cardinal and northbound Crescent at CVS, the long layover provides a useful buffer. Sure, if you are starting in CHI, the CL connects to the Crescent at WAS, but if you are starting from IND, OH, WV and want to get to Charlotte NC or Atlanta, the CL doesn't work.
 
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