Brightline Orlando Extension

[Ziv]

Wow. Page 8 of the paper talks about box-jacking in pre-built (on-site) underpass tunnels in a matter of days. These are 42'x29'x146'/126' and they hydraulically jack them laterally into place in a matter of days with no "dig and cover". The LIRR is doing the same thing and doing it over the weekend with union labor doing it for the first time with instruction from the Italian company that pioneered the technique. The LIRR ones are slightly smaller at 40'x24'x112' but this is impressive!

Box-Jacking Operation Moves Rail Underpass in a Weekend

Innovative box-jacking method from an Italian engineering firm is deployed for the first time in the U.S. for LIRR's grade-crossing elimination project.

www.enr.com

Here is a brand new detailed progress report, which includes a map (p. 11) showing WDW access via SR-536. The map also shows proposed SunRail service ... open in 2022.

https://www.cfxway.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/F.1.-FinalBLPresentation_CFX_11122020_revised.pdf

Also, the Tampa extension is projected for 2029. with no Lakeland stop at this time.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

So where is Meadow Woods? For us out of town folks. There is a town by that name is there a location that SunRail and Brightline would be meet at?

 

[McIntyre2K7]

So where is Meadow Woods? For us out of town we folks. There is a town by that name is there a extract location that SunRail and Brightline would be meet at?

Meadow Woods is just southwest of Orlando International Airport. You are correct regarding the second part. If everything goes as planned this would be the station where you could switch between Brightline and Sunrail trains.

 

[jis]

So where is Meadow Woods? For us out of town folks. There is a town by that name is there a location that SunRail and Brightline would be meet at?

In Google Map look for the Meadow Woods Sunrail Station. This would be the Sunrail Brightline interchange station according to current plans.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Small station with limited parking. Three modes of train travel to meet here? Some upgrades will be needed. Well at least there a little bus depot at this location.

 

[joelkfla]

Meadow Woods is just southwest of Orlando International Airport. You are correct regarding the second part. If everything goes as planned this would be the station where you could switch between Brightline and Sunrail trains.

Except that the latest map, in the link I posted earlier, specifically shows Brightline not stopping at Meadow Woods. I suspect Disney may have insisted on no intermediate stops between MCO & WDW.

Not sure, but I don't think SunRail platforms are long enough or high enough for Brightline trains. And all Brightline stations to date have controlled access to waiting rooms and platforms, requiring a ticket scan and X-ray screening. SunRail stations are just two side platforms and a parking lot. So Brightline would have to build an entire new station facility to serve Meadow Woods.

 

[jis]

The same station can have different dedicated platforms for Brightline and Sunrail, like Miami Central has separate dedicated platforms for Brightline and Trirail.

What that diagram shows today is not necessarily indicative of what the final operating plans and stoppage patterns will be. Things will evolve and change many times before actual realization.

 

[joelkfla]

The same station can have different dedicated platforms for Brightline and Sunrail, like Miami Central has separate dedicated platforms for Brightline and Trirail.

What that diagram shows today is not necessarily indicative of what the final operating plans and stoppage patterns will be. Things will evolve and change many times before actual realization.

Sure, but like I said, there's really no station there, just a couple of platforms and a parking lot. The question is, does Brightline think it's worth their money to build one?

In current plans, as presented to local government, there is no transfer point there.

 

[jis]

Sure, but like I said, there's really no station there, just a couple of platforms and a parking lot. The question is, does Brightline think it's worth their money to build one?

In current plans, as presented to local government, there is no transfer point there.

My general observation is that until we see the EIS with the exact alignment and associated structures it is all just speculation of the day. So there really is not much to argue about. So I do tip my hat to you

 

[me_little_me]

Small station with limited parking. Three modes of train travel to meet here? Some upgrades will be needed. Well at least there a little bus depot at this location.

And why would a station intended to be a transfer point between three non-auto means of transportation need a lot of parking?

Parking is needed when your mode of transportation is between transit and automobiles.

 

[Qapla]

why would a station intended to be a transfer point between three non-auto means of transportation need a lot of parking

The SunRail stops need parking because they are for short travel to area people who live near the station want to go without driving in the traffic. They only need to drive to the SunRail station, leave their car and use the train. Those parking lots stay full most of the day.

SunRail would have no reason to support a "transfer point" since they cater to the locals.

 

[me_little_me]

The SunRail stops need parking because they are for short travel to area people who live near the station want to go without driving in the traffic. They only need to drive to the SunRail station, leave their car and use the train. Those parking lots stay full most of the day.

SunRail would have no reason to support a "transfer point" since they cater to the locals.

They have parking (small station with limited parking). Obviously SunRail thought it was sufficient or they could not afford more.

SunRail has no reason to support a "transfer point"?
What about their customers from other local stations who want to use SunRail to get further than one of their stations?
What about their customers who have taken another mode of transport and want to get to their nearest station?
What about having the Orlando airport station? That is not needed based on your theory that locals only travel locally and have no need for a "transfer point".

InterModal is for the benefit of customers. It allows customers to extend their reach beyond the boundaries of their local transport more easily. It encourages more customers to use their local service. Are you saying SunRail doesn't care about Intermodal or their customers' needs?

 

[Qapla]

I guess I worded that poorly ...

Put more succinctly, and in response to this comment

why would a station intended to be a transfer point between three non-auto means of transportation need a lot of parking?

They need parking lots since most of their customers are locals who drive to the station.

 

[joelkfla]

Sounds like the president of Brightline has pretty much ruled out the northern (SR-528) route between MCO & WDW, unless some government kicks in some money: Brightline Trains not likely to make stop near International Drive

 

[Qapla]

Well, I can see the argument from both sides ... no matter how you look at it, money is needed!

 

[jis]

Sounds like the president of Brightline has pretty much ruled out the northern (SR-528) route between MCO & WDW, unless some government kicks in some money: Brightline Trains not likely to make stop near International Drive

None of their many plans had ever a consideration to use SR-528 alignment west of Semoran Blvd. so it is not surprising that Patrick has stated it yet again. I suspect even if someone gave them a Billion they would try to avoid that mess, unless it also came with all the permits and easements pre-arranged I suppose.

In any case, the original plan for OIA access had an LRT slated to cover that from the OIA multi-modal station. Orlando in its infinite wisdom flirted with Florida style shysters peddling first a Monorail, then a Maglev. I guess next step would be Hyperloop, while a simple LRT which would actually cost less is not attractive to the Florida style investors since it is not sexy enough for someone to sink a lot of money into.

 

[TRoberts]

What would really be ideal, is if a new rail station were built that served Amtrak, Brightline, and SunRail. I would love to step off of my Amtrak train and catch a Brightline direct to Disney.

 

[jis]

New Details on Brightline Train Station Coming to Disney Springs

UPDATE 12/2/20: At the site of Brightline’s future train station at Orlando International Airport today, the president of Brightline Trains met with transportation members in Orlando to discuss the company’s planned expansion project in Central

www.wdwinfo.com

What would really be ideal, is if a new rail station were built that served Amtrak, Brightline, and SunRail. I would love to step off of my Amtrak train and catch a Brightline direct to Disney.

When Brightline placed their proposed track adjacent to SunRail at Meadow Woods station they said they intended to place an interchange station there. Since then plans may or may not have changed, what with the whole SunRail East-West Corridor proposal with OIA station for SunRail included, that comes attached with the WDW station proposal. So who knows? Stay tuned.

Suffice it to say that Brightline could as well have just followed 417 all the way from South of the airport to 536 instead of doing the jog through Meadow Woods if they did not have something in mind for Meadow Woods, which may of course simply be a SunRail stop on its route from OIA to WDW, that Brightline will bypass.

 

[west point]

Have various family that often fly from MCO. Most would love to not either be dropped off at MCO or worse still pay high parking fees for a 2 week period. They all keep asking me why Sun Rail doesn't go to MCO. That is their second most complaint the first being that there is no weekend service for the many events that occur on weekends or for O&Ds at MCO on weekends.. That has been mostly muted by the Covid-19 problems.

 

[chrsjrcj]

The transfer station will be mostly useless until SunRail adds weekend service and more midday trains. Considering the current situation requiring more people to work from home, they should rethink their peak hour commuter model anyway since people who do have to physically show up to work likely don’t work a traditional 9 to 5.

 

[joelkfla]

The transfer station will be mostly useless until SunRail adds weekend service and more midday trains.

I think local politicians have said the same thing in regard to potential airport service.

 

[jis]

I think local politicians have said the same thing in regard to potential airport service.

And it is the local politicians who have consistently failed to provide funds to do things that they say need to be done. IOW they are experts at talking through both sides of their mouth, or they seriously believe in pixie dust from tooth fairies.

 

[jis]

So it looks like it will be 3Q2021 for service resumption between Miami and West Palm Beach. This suggests that there is still some work to be completed in the installation, testing and certification of the Wabtec I-ETMS PTC system.

Port Miami is slated for early 22, which is quite feasible IMHO. Orlando is now projected to be late 2022. Looking at progress of work and its pace in Brevard and Orange Counties, I would not be surprised at all if that slips to early 2023. Disney Springs is slated to be late 2023. This is segment for which currently no ROW permits are in place, so I'd take that with a pinch of salt, specially since FDOT will probably demand a full buildout plan to Tampa before granting any permits. They are deadly afraid that Brightline will build to Disney and then stop. They want to build in some significant disincentives from that happening.

Brightline Says Service Will Resume Q3 2021; Orlando Starts Late 2022, 10 Million Passengers By 2024

Miami Real Estate, Construction And Architecture

www.thenextmiami.com

 

[jis]

More Boond Sales, this time to fund the balance of the extension to Orlando, including Disney Springs apparently, though the actual permitting and access to ROW beyond OIA is yet to be finalized.

Rail News - Brightline seeks bond sale to finance Florida rail expansion. For Railroad Career Professionals

www.progressiverailroading.com

 

[neroden]

Disney Springs is slated to be late 2023. This is segment for which currently no ROW permits are in place, so I'd take that with a pinch of salt, specially since FDOT will probably demand a full buildout plan to Tampa before granting any permits. They are deadly afraid that Brightline will build to Disney and then stop. They want to build in some significant disincentives from that happening.

OK, while I get that, I think it's misguided on the part of FDOT, since Brightline has a very strong incentive to go all the way to Tampa.
(1) Tampa-Disney
(2) Tampa-Orlando
(3) Tampa-Orlando Airport
(4) Tampa-Miami
Lots of ridership / network effects.

The business case is so strong that FDOT really shouldn't be worried about Brightline backing out on Tampa. But you're right, FDOT is acting paranoid about that, which is perversely going to delay getting to Disney, since I think the biggest delay is getting ROW access!