Quantcast

Brightline Orlando Extension

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

west point

Conductor
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
2,302
1. Does the MIA airport station have high level platform for Amtrak ? If so no problem there.
2. I believe a connection between the south E-W FEC track and the east N-S Florida TriRail track will need a connection in the SE corner of those two lines at IRIS CP ? Both lines are 2 Main track. That along with the necessary signaling and of course the PTC interchange from FEC to TriRail and reverse. Last time there no real estate problem unlike the NE connection that had to be weaved under Metro Rail and, station and ? street.
 

Just-Thinking-51

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
AU Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
2,011
Location
USA
No high level platform at Miami airport station at this time. No Amtrak service only Tri-Rail which is majority trilevel railcars. So low level platform only.
 

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
26,562
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
2. I believe a connection between the south E-W FEC track and the east N-S Florida TriRail track will need a connection in the SE corner of those two lines at IRIS CP ? Both lines are 2 Main track. That along with the necessary signaling and of course the PTC interchange from FEC to TriRail and reverse. Last time there no real estate problem unlike the NE connection that had to be weaved under Metro Rail and, station and ? street.
Your memory is not serving you well. Open up Google Map of the area to refresh.

There was no weaving under Metro Rail involved for the NE connector at CP Iris. There was additional bridging required for NW 37th Ave.

The SE connector will require dismantling of the RAM Steel Framing facility and acquisition of that land, and some more additional bridging work at NW 37th Ave.
 

Mailliw

Service Attendant
Joined
Jun 14, 2020
Messages
151
Location
Northeast PA

cirdan

Conductor
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
2,404
Copy editors and error checkers were the first casualties of streamlining news organizations. With word processors becoming the norm, spell-check became the standard, with error checking (if any) done by unpaid or underpaid interns. Unfortunately most of them don't know the difference between there, their or they're any better than computer spell-check. Most embarrassing is when TV News gets a "super" wrong and it's a famous person or placename.
It's not just about copy editing.

Back in the day journalists actually went out and did research on the ground. Asking questions and debunking and checking things out.

These days they don't have the time for that and just blindly believe whatever the press releases claim.

At least as far as business and local news is concerned.
 

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
26,562
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
The scuttlebutt in the architects community appears to be that Brightline has selected the GasWorx location for its Tampa station. This is an area to the left of the Amtrak route as it enters Tampa station. It is roughly between where the TECO Trolley line crosses Amtrak's route and Tampa Union station. I suspect that like its Miami station it will be an elevated structure with associated real estate development.
 

joelkfla

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
Oct 16, 2018
Messages
312
The scuttlebutt in the architects community appears to be that Brightline has selected the GasWorx location for its Tampa station. This is an area to the left of the Amtrak route as it enters Tampa station. It is roughly between where the TECO Trolley line crosses Amtrak's route and Tampa Union station. I suspect that like its Miami station it will be an elevated structure with associated real estate development.
I don't know about it being elevated. I assume Miami is elevated because the ROW crosses several streets there. If I'm looking at the right place in Tampa, that wouldn't be the case if it comes in from the same direction as Amtrak. In fact, there is an elevated expressway and ramp that might conflict with an elevated platform.
 

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
26,562
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
I am just assuming that the architects know better than me
In fact, there is an elevated expressway and ramp that might conflict with an elevated platform.
There is no elevated expressway incursion at the proposed site. The elevated expressway is to its south.

Just like in Miami this edifice would be above several streets and the tracks will also have to cross the CSX approach to Tampa Union Station and the TECO Trolley.
 

Qapla

Conductor
Joined
Jul 15, 2019
Messages
1,548
Location
Gator Country Florida
Is this the location? The place marked "TECO"?

1610641978641.png

The current Amtrak approach is the track marked with a reddish-brown line and the TECO Trolley is the blue line

If so, where is the new approach going to be ... is the new rail going to be using the ROW in the middle of I-4?
 

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
26,562
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
Is this the location? The place marked "TECO"?

View attachment 20281

The current Amtrak approach is the track marked with a reddish-brown line and the TECO Trolley is the blue line

If so, where is the new approach going to be ... is the new rail going to be using the ROW in the middle of I-4?
Yes. The are still working out that piece of detail. One could merely surmise that it would be elevated roughly along 125th St. Niuccio Pkwy. But there are other possibilities.

My thinking is, if it is indeed going to be an elevated station, it would have been kind of nice if they could have placed it right atop the Tampa Union Station Yard, with pedestrian access from both the Union Station head house and Ybor City end, together with a TECO Trolley stop at the north end of the station.

Right now it is relatively early times. Let us see how it develops.
 

neroden

Conductor
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
7,957
Location
Ithaca, NY

OK, so it looks like Cocoa-Orlando is actually well ahead of the upgrades from WPB-Cocoa. Cocoa-Orlando is expected to be done June 2022 (I think I know what the slowest bit is -- the expressway relocation). But WPB-Cocoa is not expected to be done until Q4 2022, and therefore contains the critical path. I wonder which bridge is the critical path: it's going to be one of the bridges, for sure.
 

Qapla

Conductor
Joined
Jul 15, 2019
Messages
1,548
Location
Gator Country Florida
With TUS being owned by the City of Tampa and is on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places, that could be a reason it would not be used as a location for Brightline. It's adjacent proximity would make it very easy to have some sort of physical connection between the two.
 

joelkfla

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
Oct 16, 2018
Messages
312
I am just assuming that the architects know better than me

There is no elevated expressway incursion at the proposed site. The elevated expressway is to its south.

Just like in Miami this edifice would be above several streets and the tracks will also have to cross the CSX approach to Tampa Union Station and the TECO Trolley.
Is this the location? The place marked "TECO"?

View attachment 20281

The current Amtrak approach is the track marked with a reddish-brown line and the TECO Trolley is the blue line

If so, where is the new approach going to be ... is the new rail going to be using the ROW in the middle of I-4?
OK, I was looking closer to Union Station.
 

cirdan

Conductor
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
2,404
My thinking is, if it is indeed going to be an elevated station, it would have been kind of nice if they could have placed it right atop the Tampa Union Station Yard, with pedestrian access from both the Union Station head house and Ybor City end, together with a TECO Trolley stop at the north end of the station.
I don't think there will be much demand for transfers between Amtrak and Brightline in Tampa, as the routes are more duplications rather than connections. Orlando might be the more logical point to create such a transfer station, but Brightline have (understandably) chosen not to persue that avenue. At least not for now although obviously the door is not yet shut on that possibility in some future phase. And of course a Jacksonville extension, if that ever gets built, would also offer opportunities.

Much more important than connecting to Amtrak would be to position the station in a location with plenty of potential sources of riders within walking distance, as well as useful onward transportation links. The location in Miami is pretty much picture-book perfect in that respect. I'm not sufficiently familiar with Tampa to say if the proposed location achieves that.
 
Last edited:

McIntyre2K7

Train Attendant
AU Supporter
Joined
Jun 30, 2020
Messages
97
Location
Tampa, FL
Interesting they have an option for cafe cars. Presumably if they order them it won't be until Tampa is active. Brightline West should definitely have cafe/bar cars.
If I'm not mistaken I read somewhere that the cafe/bar cars will be added once service to Orlando starts.
 
Last edited:

joelkfla

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
Oct 16, 2018
Messages
312
If I'm not mistaken I read on an article that the cafe/bar cars will be added once service to Orlando starts.
A 3-hour trip is certainly long enough to enjoy lunch or a cocktail (or 2), but I think the order would have been activated by now if they wanted the cars in time for the planned start data of Orlando service at the end of 2022.
 

VentureForth

Conductor
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
5,867
Location
West Melbourne, FL
After reviewing the most recent article and all of the videos from Roaming Railfan, I'm pretty sure the slow items are:
(1) The bridges on the existing route where they are building a temporary bridge before replacing the bridge. Those temporary bridges are all started, but seem to be going pretty slowly. In several cases there are grade crossings which aren't being done until the bridge is done because the second track space is being used as the construction access road for the bridge; waiting to start the crossing work until the adjacent bridge is done adds to the final project completion time. Theoretically they should be able to begin service without these bridges being complete, but there would be rather long single-tracked sections which would not enable a full service schedule or full speeds. Financially, it still might make sense to introduce some service even if one or two of these bridges wasn't complete, if it started generating Orlando revenues earlier.
(2) The overpass of 528/Beachline over the new ROW east of the I-55 cloverleaf, which is nothing more than some piles of dirt at this point -- and involves coordination with the expressway authorities. This is critical and they can't operate a single train to Orlando without it. (They can't do a partial opening north of West Palm Beach without going all the way to Orlando because none of the intermediate stations between WPB and Orlando are anything more than design concepts at this point, so it's absolutely necessary to complete the track to Orlando in order to add any service.) This elevation/relocation of 528 is not scheduled to open until mid-August 2021.

All the bridges on the new Orlando-Cocoa ROW (and the second tunnel, and the trench) look to be well on schedule to complete in mid-2021, except for that expressway overpass. On the existing line, the grade crossings, double tracking, and signals everywhere except the bridges look like they're well on schedule to complete in mid-2021 too. The maintenance facility is supposed to be ready to receive trains (though not complete) by September 2021.

If things go well, they could be open around May 2021; the critical path appears to run through that 528 elevation, if I'm not mistaken.
1) Yes - as jis mentioned previously, in Brevard County, the new bridges have been started, but in three months, I've seen little progress.
2) The I-95 overpass is much further along than you state. The pylons are in place across the highway as are the ramps up to them. I expect to see the beams installed fairly soon.

Honestly, I was sort of surprised that there was less work along 528 than I would have expected by now. There's some land clearing and some grading complete, but except for about the first mile or so out of Cocoa, I don't see a lot ready for laying track yet. 2022 is going to be tight.
 

Anderson

Conductor
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Messages
9,597
Location
Virginia
I'm actually slightly surprised by mention of MIA in this (at least on the presumption that it would involve "mainline" Brightline trains). FLL...I believe that I have been calling that one since at least the day the first train ran. The location is just too good to pass up. Any protests to the contrary aside, I suspect that Brightline will eventually add service to FLL to their mainline trains. My guess is that it'll take an airline interlining deal of some sort to push it over the edge.

On the cafe car option, I suspect that the addition of that may depend on traffic loads. On a theoretical 4-5 car train they can probably make do with snack/beverage carts. If the train gets extended to seven cars, they may opt for the cafe then. Orlando-Miami is three hours or so, which is probably a long enough trip to justify the cafe; it then becomes a matter of having the pax load to justify it (which four pax coaches probably doesn't quite reach).
 

Mailliw

Service Attendant
Joined
Jun 14, 2020
Messages
151
Location
Northeast PA
They could also go with a cafe/coach car instead of a cafe lounge. Siemens sample floorplans for the Ventures show a car with half cafe half economy seating.
 

Anderson

Conductor
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Messages
9,597
Location
Virginia
Just as an aside, the line in Melbourne is still single track. Was that supposed to be double-tracked as part of this project?
 

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
26,562
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
Just as an aside, the line in Melbourne is still single track. Was that supposed to be double-tracked as part of this project?
They are working on it both from the North and the South. It will get double tracked. In Melbourne the current primary attention is to bridges over waterways more than on tracks I think. Primary concern I think is Eu Gallie Creek and Crane Creek, and then a little South in Palm Bay is Turkey Creek, and further South at the border of Brevard and Indian River County is St. Sebastian River. All are significant bridge works.
 

adamj023

Service Attendant
Joined
Apr 1, 2015
Messages
143
Brightline seems to be adding stations in good locations like Boca Raton, FL and others giving Florida a passenger rail network it was previously lacking. Between Sun Rail, Tri Rail, Amtrak and others there will be a more complete network of passenger rail which didn’t exist before. I remember when Tri Rail just came out in Florida and since then Sun Rail has emerged and Brightline with additional stations. Population growth in Florida is huge leading to more need for mass transit to supplement the roads especially as the pandemic subsidies. People are leaving states like NY in record numbers and yet there are plans for expansion of rail network there which makes no sense.

Brightline seems to be making progress on its Florida network and I believe it will go to Tampa and even Jacksonville and connect to other high speed networks as hopefully existing tracks north of Jacksonville can be made higher speed. I believe CSX owns these tracks now if I recall which is based in Jacksonville, FL.
 
Top