Hanno
OBS Chief
If a visit were to be planned for Bryce and Zion National Parks, which train would be best and also which stations? Has anyone made this trip that would have any recommendations?
Bryce and Zion NP
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the_traveler
Engineer
There are no Amtrak trains that go close to either park. The best thing would be to take the CZ and rent a car from either Grand Junction, CO or Salt Lake City, UT. Either would require quite a bit of driving, but from Grand Junction, you could also go to numerous other NPs (including Mesa Verde, Canyonland and Arches) before you get to both Bryce and Zion. Another choice is to take the SWC and renting a car in Flagstaff, AZ and also including the Grand Canyon and/or Las Vegas, NV. Or you can connect to Las Vegas by bus and rent a car there.
Shotgun7
Service Attendant
Flagstaff via the SWC definately seems closer than SLC, but Green River and Provo, UT appear to be closer than either of the two (if you can find a car rental place). Both look to be about the same driving distance. Provo is straight down I-15, while from Green River you'd merge onto I-15 via US-50. If you plan on going straight to Bryce Canyon first, then Green River looks to be the spot, since it's an easy connection to US-88 from US-50, which heads right down into Bryce.
I was in Green River this summer and I doubt they have rental cars there. They may but it was a very small town w/ nothing open other than gas stations b/c we were there on a Sunday. There was one grocery store...Closed.
Not sure when original poster is going to that area but Bryce is nicer in summer b/c it is about 8-9K feet above sea level. Warm but not hot in summer. I would think very cold in winter altho I have never been there in the winter. Zion is more like 4-5K feet and rather hot in the summer. I'd think over 100 is pretty common. Been there when it was over 100 but not sure if that is every day or now and then. Zion is really better in spring/fall if you have a choice.
I'd second other posters who suggested adding other parks to the itinerary. Arches, Canyonlands and Capitol Reef tend to be on the warmer side in the summer b/c they are more like 5K feet in elevation. Grand canyon N rim is open in the summer, the S Rim is open year round.
Dan
Montanan
OBS Chief
Yeah, Green River is not a place to find a rental car! My vote would be for Grand Junction, if you have several extra days and want to see Arches and Capital Reef. Otherwise, I'd ride the Southwest Chief to Flagstaff and head north from there. It's a nicer drive than coming down from Salt Lake, I think.
The hotels at Bryce and Zion, by the way, have a rail connection -- they were constructed by the Union Pacific Railroad back in the 1920s The UP operated summer passenger service to Cedar City, Utah, and then ran bus tours from there to Bryce, Zion, and the north rim of the Grand Canyon. (The lodge at the North Rim is also an old UP property.) The main lodge building at Zion was replaced after a fire in the 1960s, but the Bryce and Grand Canyon properties are great old historic hotels. Though you'd have to start from Flagstaff now, recreating that old Union Pacific tour would be a great vacation.
The best times to visit that part of the world, i think, are late spring and early fall. Zion is hot (and very busy) in the summer, and many of the roads and trails in Bryce are closed by snow in the winter. The road into the North Rim is also closed in the winter.
The hotels at Bryce and Zion, by the way, have a rail connection -- they were constructed by the Union Pacific Railroad back in the 1920s The UP operated summer passenger service to Cedar City, Utah, and then ran bus tours from there to Bryce, Zion, and the north rim of the Grand Canyon. (The lodge at the North Rim is also an old UP property.) The main lodge building at Zion was replaced after a fire in the 1960s, but the Bryce and Grand Canyon properties are great old historic hotels. Though you'd have to start from Flagstaff now, recreating that old Union Pacific tour would be a great vacation.
The best times to visit that part of the world, i think, are late spring and early fall. Zion is hot (and very busy) in the summer, and many of the roads and trails in Bryce are closed by snow in the winter. The road into the North Rim is also closed in the winter.
Hanno
OBS Chief
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. The trip will be sometime next year (not in the heat of the summer). Perhaps taking the SWC to Flagstaff, rent a car, drive north to Grand Canyon, Utah's NPS, to Grand Junction, and then take the CZ back would be an option. Any thoughts on that!
rtabern
Conductor
My vote would be Provo... a lot closer than Grand Junction, Colorado.
Plus, you're on I-15 already in Provo.
And, yes, its several hundred miles down to the parks you mentioned, but the speed limit on I-15 is 75mph, so it's not too bad... you can get there in 3-4 hours from Provo.
I did both parks during a trip in 2004.
If you have time, stop off at Cedar Breaks Nat'l Monument... it's located between the 2 parks and has a nice visitor center.
Plus, you're on I-15 already in Provo.
And, yes, its several hundred miles down to the parks you mentioned, but the speed limit on I-15 is 75mph, so it's not too bad... you can get there in 3-4 hours from Provo.
I did both parks during a trip in 2004.
If you have time, stop off at Cedar Breaks Nat'l Monument... it's located between the 2 parks and has a nice visitor center.
ceblack
Train Attendant
My recommendation would depend on how much time you had for the trip. I recommend staying two nights minimum at both Zion and Bryce so you have at least one full day in each. Given that you are taking the train (presumably from Chicago or someplace farther east), some of your vacation days are already spent in liesurely transit.
If you only have time for Zion and Bryce, I'd concur that Provo is probably a good on/off point from the California Zephyr. If you can't avoid the dog days of summer, a hike/wade up the Virgin River in Zion is a good way to beat the heat.
If you have a few extra days, extend either south to North/South Grand Canyon and return via Southwest Chief from Flagstaff, OR depart the California Zephyr at Grand Junction and visit Capitol Reef/Canyonlands/Arches before Bryce/Zion (There are some scenic drives along UT 128 to Moab and UT 12 between Capitol Reef and Bryce).
If you've got weeks, do the whole enchilada!
If you only have time for Zion and Bryce, I'd concur that Provo is probably a good on/off point from the California Zephyr. If you can't avoid the dog days of summer, a hike/wade up the Virgin River in Zion is a good way to beat the heat.
If you have a few extra days, extend either south to North/South Grand Canyon and return via Southwest Chief from Flagstaff, OR depart the California Zephyr at Grand Junction and visit Capitol Reef/Canyonlands/Arches before Bryce/Zion (There are some scenic drives along UT 128 to Moab and UT 12 between Capitol Reef and Bryce).
If you've got weeks, do the whole enchilada!
Hanno
OBS Chief
After all the excellent suggestions and research here is what I'm considering. CL from WAS to CHI, SWC from CHI to FLG. Rent a van (there are eight of us) and drive to Bryce and Zion (2 nights at each place) then drive to Sedona with a stop at the North Rim. Spend 5 nights in Sedona, drive to Pheonix and fly home.
Based on the input of those who have been there does this make sense? I value your input!
Rail Freak
Engineer
How about Flying to Vegas, renting car, doing the 2 nites each in Zion & Bryce, hitting the Grand Canyon on the North and/or South Rim, Take in Cameron Trading Post (Navajo) the Volcano Crater, Meteor Crater, Flagstaff, Sedonna, Jerrome, Montizuma's Castle on & on!!! There's alot to see in that area. Then going home on the SWC? This sounds like a nice trip, which ever way ya go!!!! 
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Hanno
OBS Chief
Good suggestion! I like the idea of using Vegas because it is less driving and was thinking of SWC to Flagstaff, Sedon, Grand Canyon, Bryce, Zion and then Vegas. Makes sense to me. But of course there is a problem and it is renting a van. I didn't make a phone call but using the web it seems as though one cannot take a large van out of state. I've checked both Hertz and Avis.How about Flying to Vegas, renting car, doing the 2 nites each in Zion & Bryce, hitting the Grand Canyon on the North and/or South Rim, Take in Cameron Trading Post (Navajo) the Volcano Crater, Meteor Crater, Flagstaff, Sedonna, Jerrome, Montizuma's Castle on & on!!! There's alot to see in that area. Then going home on the SWC? This sounds like a nice trip, which ever way ya go!!!!
I'll keep looking but thanks for the idea!
the Other Mike
Lead Service Attendant
There are MANY good suggestions so far. About 15 years ago I flew into Vegas, ( September )rented a car and drove to St George ( got into Vegas at night ). In the morning I went into Zion. Personally, the drive through Zion was enough for me with 2 short trails. If I remember, Zion is the hot spot for "high trail" folks but beautiful just the same.
The drive from Zion to Byrce was GREAT. As dumbluck would have it, I walked into the Lodge at Bryce just as someone canceled and got a room. I drove the main road to the turnaround around dusk and stopped at many overlooks. VERY beautiful. The next morning I did one of the main trails from the lodge area ( about 6 hours) and was speechless at the beauty.
When I left Bryce, I headed for North Rim. By the way, expect people to pass you like you're standing still if you're only doing 85-100 when crossing between Fredonia and the overlook on the other side of the high desert run. DO NOT think Jacob Lake is a town. Jacob Lake was a gas station, general store and flop house all rolled into one when I passed through it. It was like one of those scenic spots used in Disney movies like Charlie the Lonesome Cougar............
It seems to take forever to get to the Ranger Toll both heading to North rim and even longer to get from the toll booth to the Lodge.
There is no way to describe the view. Make sure to relax a few minutes at the lodge before trying to go out to the point to watch the sunset. I'm one of the 10% that get really bad vertigo ( sp ? ) walking that short distance out to the point. When I saw people perched up on rock outcroppings with nothing but catlike instenct to keep them from falling several thousand feet, I freaked. This seems to happen to some people as I was not the only one hugging the rock face and inching my way back towards the lodge. I've never been so frightened in my life. When I made it to the bar at the lodge, it was packed with pansies like myself doing shots to Guns and Roses' " Welcome to the Jungle".
The one thing I wished I had done on that quick trip was drive through Monument Valley, something you might consider adding to the trip.
Good Luck at North Rim and please don't laugh at the people inching their way back to the lodge
I vote that you get off in Flagstaff and do the grand circle.
greatcats
Engineer
I'm the Grand canyon tour bus driver on the South Rim. Watch your speed driving - I have acculmulated two BS speeding tickets in the past few months - west of Jacob Lake and Fredonia on Highway 389 ( stopped by the Paiute Indian cop ) and last week on Interstate 40 in Flagstaff - to fast in a construction zone. Yes, I was in the wrong, but these revenue producing machines make me crazy. 9 I was driving my own car, not the bus. )
Anyway, jacob Lake Inn is not a flop house. I have stayed in their charming 1923 cabins twice this year and they have modern motel units. The food in their dining room is quite good. but, yes, Jacob Lake is not a town, by any stretch of the imagination. Also, if headed to or from North Rim, try Cliff Dwellers Lodge nine miles west of Marble Canyon. Motel rooms OK - restaurant looks like an ordinary coffee shop, but has very good food.
I would approve of the idea of leaving from Flagstaff and driving to Salk LAke City or Grand Junction.
Anyway, jacob Lake Inn is not a flop house. I have stayed in their charming 1923 cabins twice this year and they have modern motel units. The food in their dining room is quite good. but, yes, Jacob Lake is not a town, by any stretch of the imagination. Also, if headed to or from North Rim, try Cliff Dwellers Lodge nine miles west of Marble Canyon. Motel rooms OK - restaurant looks like an ordinary coffee shop, but has very good food.
I would approve of the idea of leaving from Flagstaff and driving to Salk LAke City or Grand Junction.
the Other Mike
Lead Service Attendant
I did not mean for my comment to sound that bad. Like I said, it's like a scenic spot out of a disney movie and yes, just like out of the 20's or 30's. I should have used the word "quaint" to describe it, I was trying to prepare the person that the map gives the impression it's a town and when I got there I was surprized. At the same time it's an oasis in the wilderness. ( I didn't realize it was cabins, I thought it was more like a dorm because I saw a sign that advertised a "bed" price per night)
Sorry for my use of improper words.
Since you are a local, just how far of a drive is it to monument valley ?
By the way, on my return from north rim I decided to take what appeared to be a short cut to Hurricane...........never traveling that road before and driving it at night by myself was the closest thing to a Rod Serling Twighlight Zone adventure I've experienced. No other cars at all for several hours. Man was I glad to make it to Hurricane.
N rim is only open limited amount of time. I have camped there in mid June and seen some snow on the ground. I am not sure when it opens. I think it closes in October. Well, you can still drive out there if the lodge is closed and no services if the road is clear I believe. N Rim is gorgeous..I hope you enjoy it. Ilike the big trees, cooler weather and peacefulness there. I don't know if you'd experience that much if you are there for a short time. I hope you can.
Dan
greatcats
Engineer
Mapquest tells me that it is 213 miles Jacob Lake to Monument Valley Tribal Park. The facilities at North Rim are open May 15 to October 15, with limited visitor services ( ranger information and campground ) open for a time after that. I learned the other day that highway 67 will close for the winter on Mon., Dec. 3 - that is the 45 mile road Jacob Lake to North Rim, which is indeed wonderful. I often tell my tour groups on the South Rim that the lodge faintly visible on the North Rim was at one time a Union Pacidic Railroad hotel. No train went there - passengers were brought in by limo from Cedar City, Utah.
Yes, that shortcut to Hurricane was where I received a ticket, near Pipe Spring National Monument. I pulled out to pass a car, in the middle of nowhere, and saw a car approaching, so I stepped on it . Of course, the other car was the Paiute cop. Oh well, this isn't a forum about speeding tickets.
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Hanno
OBS Chief
Based on all of the valuable input ...here is what has been "offically" decided thus far. We will arrive in FLG on the SWC! I am currently working on the exact dates but arrival is tentatively June 14th (just noticed that we will arive in Flagstaff on Flag Day...how appropriate!) Booking the train is critical from a timing standpoint as some rooms are already sold out on some days and having the need for four rooms makes it even a little more interesting.
If we can rent a van and take it across state lines we will either fly home from SLC or LAS. I'm still working on this part of the plan as well as rooming etc.
I posted a request for information about a hotle in Flagstaff last evening and got some good suggestions.
Thanks to all of you for your assistance!
Bob
If we can rent a van and take it across state lines we will either fly home from SLC or LAS. I'm still working on this part of the plan as well as rooming etc.
I posted a request for information about a hotle in Flagstaff last evening and got some good suggestions.
Thanks to all of you for your assistance!
Bob
I haven't been to Monument Valley in 26 years but it was even less of a town than Jacob Lake is. I don't recall anything there. I would guess there is something but not much at all. Monument Valley is pretty but the drive N from Flagstaff across the Painted Desert is pretty nice too. I love that part of the country--red rocks (and other colors as well), mostly clear air and tremendous views.
Re Hurricane--we wondered why in the heck would a town in SW UT be named Hurricane. Got out of the car and it was really windy. Okay, that's how it got its name.
Dan--not a local
The other posters here have made fantastic recommendations, so there's not much I can add. I'll just tell you what I did:
I found a cheap airfare from home to Denver, so I flew into DEN. After overnighting downtown, I took the CZ to SLC and experienced the beautiful scenery across the Rockies--HIGHLY recommended.
After overnighting at the Plaza Hotel in downtown SLC (right next to Temple Square and just a couple of light rail stops from the SLC train station--they had a great rate of $75 for a room with a beautiful view of the temple), I picked up a rental car from Avis in the lobby of the (IIRC) Hilton, just a couple of light rail stops from the Plaza Hotel or a pleasant walk.
I thought I had a lot of time (8 days total; 6 days with the rental car), so I drove up to Golden Spike NHS, located at the site of where the UP and CP met up in their quest to build the first transcontinental railroad. After driving back through SLC and stopping at the Kennecott copper mine (WOW), I drove west to the Bonneville salt flats (site of the world land speed record--talk about a HUGE expanse of purely flat ground!). I headed south to the historic town of Ely, NV and stayed in what was, at the time of its construction, the tallest building in Nevada, followed by a visit to Great Basin NP (not much to see, but I collect National Park cancellation stamps in a NPS passport). I headed towards Zion and then spent the next few days exploring Zion, Bryce, Capitol Reef, Canyonlands, and Arches before heading back up to I-70 and driving to DEN. I returned the rental car in DEN and flew out.
I covered over 2,200 miles and probably bit off more than most people care to chew, but I love to drive and I'm driven to see as much as I can. In hindsight, there certainly would have been enough to see had I skipped the entire first part of the trip and headed straight for Zion, but I definitely plan on going back for some extended hiking, so I'll get to see it in the future. It really is one of the most exquisite spots on Planet Earth (rivaling the scenery in Banff/Jasper NPs in Alberta, Canada--go there if you can someday!).
I found a cheap airfare from home to Denver, so I flew into DEN. After overnighting downtown, I took the CZ to SLC and experienced the beautiful scenery across the Rockies--HIGHLY recommended.
After overnighting at the Plaza Hotel in downtown SLC (right next to Temple Square and just a couple of light rail stops from the SLC train station--they had a great rate of $75 for a room with a beautiful view of the temple), I picked up a rental car from Avis in the lobby of the (IIRC) Hilton, just a couple of light rail stops from the Plaza Hotel or a pleasant walk.
I thought I had a lot of time (8 days total; 6 days with the rental car), so I drove up to Golden Spike NHS, located at the site of where the UP and CP met up in their quest to build the first transcontinental railroad. After driving back through SLC and stopping at the Kennecott copper mine (WOW), I drove west to the Bonneville salt flats (site of the world land speed record--talk about a HUGE expanse of purely flat ground!). I headed south to the historic town of Ely, NV and stayed in what was, at the time of its construction, the tallest building in Nevada, followed by a visit to Great Basin NP (not much to see, but I collect National Park cancellation stamps in a NPS passport). I headed towards Zion and then spent the next few days exploring Zion, Bryce, Capitol Reef, Canyonlands, and Arches before heading back up to I-70 and driving to DEN. I returned the rental car in DEN and flew out.
I covered over 2,200 miles and probably bit off more than most people care to chew, but I love to drive and I'm driven to see as much as I can. In hindsight, there certainly would have been enough to see had I skipped the entire first part of the trip and headed straight for Zion, but I definitely plan on going back for some extended hiking, so I'll get to see it in the future. It really is one of the most exquisite spots on Planet Earth (rivaling the scenery in Banff/Jasper NPs in Alberta, Canada--go there if you can someday!).
wayman
Engineer
Impressive trip, Jackal!
Just on that last point ... having hiked Bryce and Zion in 2007 and Lake Louise and Banff in 2008, I can say that they are indeed very worthy rivals and both worth more time than I was able to give them on those trips. If you've ever seen one and not the other, that may give you some extra encouragement; if you've never seen either, well, you'll just have to plan two great vacations now
