Business class on 391 and 392

[Steve4031]

I rode business class back from the bears game in Champaign, IL to Chicago on Sept. 8. The legroom was terrible. The seats were scrunched together, with space between facing seats about 1 ft. There was about 10 feet of empty space at the front end of the car, where seats normally go. This seating was in one half of a dinette car that had been refurbished. The car had a painting of Chicago opposite the snack car, and it was of Amfleet heritage. Dont know why it was this way, but I would be leary of taking business class on midwest corridor trains until this issue was resolved.

Amtrak employees: Do you think positioning of seats is an easy thing to change in an amfleet coach? Would a call help Amtrak fix it? I dont want money back because I know Amtrak is short of cash.

 

[Amfleet]

You probably got put into normal Amfleet coach seating. The crew doesn't care and other than us railfans no ones going to notice. Even regular BC is not all that special so I alwasy stick with Coach Class. Sorry that happened Steve. Be sure to call Amtrak "Satisfaction Garantee" so you can get back your accomadation charge.

 

[AlanB]

Even regular BC is not all that special so I alwasy stick with Coach Class.

Actually it depends upon what train you are booking BC on. For example on the Downeaster, there is a big difference in BC from the normal NE corridor BC. The Downeaster is using former Metroliner Club Class cars. These cars have 2 and 1 seating just like First Class on the Acela's. These are nice wide seats with lots of adjustments. They also have plenty of legroom. Plus the cafe attendant gives you first dibs on getting food before they announce that they are open to the rest of the train.

I also understand, although I've yet to ride these trains, that some of the West coast trains also offer amenities that you don't get with normal NEC BC.

 

[Amfleet]

Yes your right, the Vermonter also has a First Class Car too. I beleive on Surfliners there is personal video entertainment too. However, my entertainment is out the window. B)

 

[tp49]

I believe the Surfliners and Cascades are the only West Coast trains that offer first or business class seating. They announced an intention to begin business class on the Capitols but never did. I e-mailed BART who manages the Capitols for CalTrans and they told me because of the economy it would be on hold for the forseeable future

 

[Viewliner]

I know this may seem off topic but I wonder what the Clockers will be like when NJ Transit is supposed to take them over in 2006.

 

[Miami Joe]

I don't know if calling would help, but the seats are mounted in a way, similar to aircraft. This allows us to remove the seat assy for any major defects. There was one scenario, where a "bigshot" from Amtrak had passed away and the casket was being shipped north. Not only did they remove some seats from the coach, they had to remove a window to get the casket in the car!!!

 

[Amfleet]

Did he ride with the "other" passengers?

 

[Catalan Talgo]

In my personal opinion, the Business class or Custom Class or Midwest whatever-it-is class is not worth it. I am referring specifically to what is offered on the Midwest trains out of Chicago. There is no difference in space or comfort from Coach class. There is little difference in service or amenities.

Until Amtrak decides to make an effort to improve their product on these trains, they offer almost no advantage to driving or flying. Hope looms with the eventual upgrading of the Chicago-St. Louis line, but new trainsets or refurbished Amfleet or Horizons are just as important. Has there ever been a car more uncomfortable over a 6 hour train trip than the Horizon? Or a 2 hour train trip for that matter?

I still think that the Midwest needs to follow the Pacific Northwest's lead and aquire some Talgos for demonstration and eventual regular service.

Anyone ride the Chicago-St. Louis line recently? Any noticeable improvements?

 

[Amfleet]

Viewliner,

If NJ Transit takes over Clocker service in 2006 I expect Amtrak will be leasing their own equipment (Amfleets, what else) or maybe NJ Transit will even decide to invest in their own set of newer, more comfortable equipment. However, I don't know if this move will go or not now that Gunn's in office, but 2006 is still 3 1/2 years away so anything can happen.

 

[Steve4031]

I agree with Catalan Talgo. I think the group involved in the Midwest corridor project received bids from Talgo and from the people who make the German ICE train. Either one of these would be a vast improvement over horizon equipment, and probably over Acela too in light of its recent problems. Bombardier, in general makes very poor quality equipment.

 

[mkincaid]

Bombardier, in general makes very poor quality equipment.

I think that's too much of a generalization. The Superliner 2's are very good, and their bi-level (or tri-level depending how you count) commuter cars are also quite good quality.

 

[Amfleet]

The Superliner II's are actually not that great in my opinion. Many of the materials used to buid the cars were light weight and easily breakable. From reading various trip reports many railfans prefer a fully refurbished Superliner I's from Beech Grove over a Superliner II. As for the commuter cars I don't know, because I've never rode in one. Another thing is that as railfans we only see the interior. The A/C, plumbing, and electrical might suck. The other day I thought that Colorado Rail Manufacture had some really nice looking cars. That was until Miami Joe told me that those cars had incorrect coupler heights, poor AC, and electrical. Now on the other hand the Heritage Diners built by Budd over 50 years ago are still running strong, even the ones unrefurbished.

 

[Viewliner]

The Superliner II's are actually not that great in my opinion. Many of the materials used to buid the cars were light weight and easily breakable. From reading various trip reports many railfans prefer a fully refurbished Superliner I's from Beech Grove over a Superliner II. As for the commuter cars I don't know, because I've never rode in one. Another thing is that as railfans we only see the interior. The A/C, plumbing, and electrical might suck. The other day I thought that Colorado Rail Manufacture had some really nice looking cars. That was until Miami Joe told me that those cars had incorrect coupler heights, poor AC, and electrical. Now on the other hand the Heritage Diners built by Budd over 50 years ago are still running strong, even the ones unrefurbished.

I get what you mean, nothing can compare with the quality of Pullman-Standard (Superliner I/ Heritage) and Budd (Heritage/Amfleet I/ Amfleet II).

As for the commuter cars I know NJ Transit uses Comet III's (I think)and IV's from Bombardier and they seem ok, but they used Alstom for the new Comet V's and they look nice.

 

[Viewliner]

Viewliner,If NJ Transit takes over Clocker service in 2006 I expect Amtrak will be leasing their own equipment (Amfleets, what else) or maybe NJ Transit will even decide to invest in their own set of newer, more comfortable equipment. However, I don't know if this move will go or not now that Gunn's in office, but 2006 is still 3 1/2 years away so anything can happen.

NJ Transit would use mini bi-level cars which they are planning to buy to fit on the NEC, powered by ALP-46's

 

[Amfleet]

Those look like the bilevels used on LIRR.

 

[Superliner Diner]

A few comments on previous items in this thread:

Be sure to call Amtrak "Satisfaction Guarantee" so you can get back your accomadation charge.

I have heard unofficially that the Gunn Administration wants to do away with the Satisfaction Guarantee initiated by his predecessor. Whether this has yet taken place, or whether they still have to honor the guarantee as long as it appears on printed Amtrak media is not known.

I rode business class back from the bears game in Champaign, IL to Chicago on Sept. 8.

Are you sure this was 391/392, and not the special train? Amtrak equipment was used for a special train that is operating between Chicago Union Station, Homewood, and Champaign for all Bears home games.

Has there ever been a car more uncomfortable over a 6 hour train trip than the Horizon? Or a 2 hour train trip for that matter?

Agreed here, the Horizon coach is a glorified commuter coach, which to me is a step down in comfort from unrefurbished Amfleet I coaches (no offense, Amfleet!). The Horizon is the workhorse of the midwest trains, but sometimes at least a Horizon dinette and/or coach ends up on the Pennsylvanian, Three Rivers, or even the Carolinian.

I still think that the Midwest needs to follow the Pacific Northwest's lead and aquire some Talgos for demonstration and eventual regular service.

Talgo is one technology that is being considered for the Midwest High Speed Rail Initiative. The latest Talgo's out are called Bayliners (supposedly they are a more advanced model than the ones used in the Pacific Northwest).

NJ Transit would use mini bi-level cars which they are planning to buy to fit on the NEC, powered by ALP-46's

True, although single-level cars may also be used on this line as well once NJ TRANSIT takes over the service. The extended service to Philadelphia, as perceived by NJ TRANSIT's passengers, is a "new" service, even though it has existed under Amtrak for years. Having the newest equipment go to the "newest" service would not sit well with existing passengers, particularly on the New York-Trenton portion of the NEC, and other overcrowded lines like the North Jersey Coast Line and Midtown Direct. Think of those who have to ride in the vestibules every morning and evening, or worse, between the cars in the diaphragm, holding on for dear life, being promised new equipment only to see it go to the former Clockers.

 

[Viewliner]

NJ Transit would use mini bi-level cars which they are planning to buy to fit on the NEC, powered by ALP-46's

True, although single-level cars may also be used on this line as well once NJ TRANSIT takes over the service. The extended service to Philadelphia, as perceived by NJ TRANSIT's passengers, is a "new" service, even though it has existed under Amtrak for years. Having the newest equipment go to the "newest" service would not sit well with existing passengers, particularly on the New York-Trenton portion of the NEC, and other overcrowded lines like the North Jersey Coast Line and Midtown Direct. Think of those who have to ride in the vestibules every morning and evening, or worse, between the cars in the diaphragm, holding on for dear life, being promised new equipment only to see it go to the former Clockers.

I agree with you about the equipment, and I think it would operate on lines other than the Clockers, It obviously just has to fit on the tunnels in the NEC. It would most likely see service on the MidTOWN Direct (including the Montclair Connection), The Northeast Corridor (including the Clocker) and North Jersey Coast Line. I don't think the passegers traveling between New York, Newark, Metropark, New Brunswick, Princeton Junction, Trenton, and Philadelphia would have a problem with some of the Bi-Levels operating on the Clockers.

 

[Amfleet]

Agreed here, the Horizon coach is a glorified commuter coach, which to me is a step down in comfort from unrefurbished Amfleet I coaches (no offense, Amfleet!).

Thanks!!! <_< No, but really the unrefurbed Amfleets are pretty uncomfortable, they are 25 years old. The Capstone 2001 refurbishments are my favorite (except for the "lava lamp" color scheme apllied on the out side). The small window really doesn't matter as the I don't think of the New Jersy Meadowlands as being "scenic" (no offense to NJ residents). B)

 

[Viewliner]

Agreed here, the Horizon coach is a glorified commuter coach, which to me is a step down in comfort from unrefurbished Amfleet I coaches (no offense, Amfleet!).

Thanks!!! <_< No, but really the unrefurbed Amfleets are pretty uncomfortable, they are 25 years old. The Capstone 2001 refurbishments are my favorite (except for the "lava lamp" color scheme apllied on the out side). The small window really doesn't matter as the I don't think of the New Jersy Meadowlands as being "scenic" (no offense to NJ residents). B)

None taken , unless you want to see the new secaucus station they're building.

 

[battalion51]

Bombardier's commuter cars can't be doing that badly. There are three major commuter RR's I know of that use the bi-level Commuter Coaches, Tri-Rail, GO Transit, and Metrolink. These three companies all seem to be very happy with the cars, or they wouldn't be ordering more of them. Tri-Rail already owns two generations of coaches, and is planning to buy a bunch of Cab-Coaches pretty soon in preperation for the completion of Double Tracking.

As for the Superliner II's, I think the Superliner II's beat the I's with a hickory stick. I would much prefer to sit in a II than a I any day of the week.

 

[Amfleet]

The II's may look better but I find the quality is not as great (fabric, wall material). Taking the Auto Train 4 years in a row the cars definetly would take a beating. But on my Capitol Limited trip with all Sup I's the cars were still beat up, but thats after 20 years of service not 8.

 

[battalion51]

Well this is just my opinion but I would think the AT cars get more care than that of your average Superliner, simply because they work AT, which is Amtrak's premiere long distance service. Just my opinon though.

 

[Amfleet]

Your right. The Auto Train does get a lot more passengers and the cars never lay over.

 

[CREW-DORM#2524]

" Agreed here, the Horizon coach is a glorified commuter coach, which to me is a step down in comfort from unrefurbished Amfleet I coaches (no offense, Amfleet!). The Horizon is the workhorse of the midwest trains, but sometimes at least a Horizon dinette and/or coach ends up on the Pennsylvanian, Three Rivers, or even the Carolinian."

these havebeen a problem on #80 all summer long. during the 100+ days of july and august, the cars a/c crapped out just about every other day. thus the car was shut down between rocky mount n.c. and richmond v.a. on days when mechanical was not avlal. at RVR the car was switched out in washington.

the main reason these cars are even on #79/#80 is for the storage space. if you run an amfleet I cafe you will see boxes of chips ect. in the seats. amfleet II lounge cars are a lost cause on this train too. if you get one of the un-refurbed lounges you are fine, but i have had one only once. the refurbed smoking lounges are the wrong car for the wrong train. you are not using but half of the car. you cannot use the smoking lounge as 79/80 is a non-smoking train. this area is used for storage.

ryan

NS Piedmont Division

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