HockeyFan1972
Train Attendant
Where again can you find the times/delays for the past month? I knew a website but im drawing a blank right now.
Capitol Limited & Lake Shore Limited Delays Summer/Fall 2014
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George K
Conductor
neroden
Engineer
HockeyFan1972
Train Attendant
Thanks. Anyone know the reason for the CL #30 delay after Elkhart, IN? Looks like it got to Pittsburg 2.5 hours late?
My faith in making my connection to the Pennsy on the morning of the 26th is not that good....may want to change tix to go thru WAS to Philadelphia.
HF
My faith in making my connection to the Pennsy on the morning of the 26th is not that good....may want to change tix to go thru WAS to Philadelphia.
HF
CL #30(11/23) shows a service disruption on Status Maps for the 2 and a half hour delay between Elkhart and Waterloo, IN. So the delay had to have been more than freight congestion. However, #30(23) arrived at PGH at 7:25 AM and #42 (23) departed PGH at 7:37 AM, so it made the connection.
According to Status Maps Archive, #30 has made the connection to #42 every day so far in November except for November 18 when the lake effect snowstorm walloped the region along Lake Erie (#30(11/17) lost 5 hours between Toledo and Sandusky). So your odds of making the connection at PGH are pretty good, but of course, can't guarantee it
HockeyFan1972
Train Attendant
Thanks for the info. Called Amtrak and was told that it SHOULD make the connection. They have been holding the Pennsy these days if it is a close connection. Lady who was absolutely great to talk to, was also very forthcoming about the delays. Would not go into what the "Service Disruption" was but seemed confident that freight lines are supposed to begin to lighten traffic for the turkey day weekend?
Anyway, looking forward to this trip been way to long since I have been on the good ol AMTRAK. Going from Milwaukee to Philadelphia starting tomorrow. Should be an adventure with the snowstorm we are getting today and the one due to the east coast WED-THURS.
Side question: No checked baggage on the Hiawatha or the Pennsy. Bringing two small bags with me (Backpack and roller carry on Airline overhead compartment size). Any issues with placement of these bags on NON Checked Baggage trains?
HF
Anyway, looking forward to this trip been way to long since I have been on the good ol AMTRAK. Going from Milwaukee to Philadelphia starting tomorrow. Should be an adventure with the snowstorm we are getting today and the one due to the east coast WED-THURS.
Side question: No checked baggage on the Hiawatha or the Pennsy. Bringing two small bags with me (Backpack and roller carry on Airline overhead compartment size). Any issues with placement of these bags on NON Checked Baggage trains?
HF
Bags should be fine. There should be overheads on both trains and/or a spot at one end of the car.
acelafan
Conductor
afigg mentioned the data (thanks!) but here is a screenshot for you which you can scan for times and missed connections.
The direct link for the image above is http://juckins.net/amtrak_status/archive/html/connections.php?date_start=10%2F23%2F2014&date_end=11%2F24%2F2014&a_train_num=30&c_train_num=42&station=pgh&sort_dir=DESC
If you google "Amtrak Status Maps Archive Database" you can always find the website or go to http://juckins.net/amtrak_status/
Amtrak posted a November 24 & 25 service alert for #29 and #30, so the service disruption last night may have been track work. Quote:
Have not posted one lately, but it is the big travel day. The CL and LSL did ok, better than #8, #6, or #22 in getting to Chicago. #29 and #49 also did much better on NS territory today (Wednesday 11/26) than on Tuesday (11/24 departures) when the westbound trains each lost >=2 hours between TOL and CHI.
CL #29(11/25): arrived CHI 10 minutes early.
LSL #49(11/25): arrived CHI 1 hour and 37 minutes late but delays were on ALB-SDY and CSX [dep ALB 19 minutes late, SDY 44 minutes late, BUF 1 hour and 54 minutes late so it made up time between BUF and CHI]
CL #30(11/25): arrived WAS 44 minutes late. [arrived PGH 35 minutes late, dep RKV 1 hour and 22 minutes late]
LSL #48(11/25): arrived NYP on-time at 6:23 PM. [dep BYN 51 minutes late, dep CLE 1 minutes late].
CL #29(11/25): arrived CHI 10 minutes early.
LSL #49(11/25): arrived CHI 1 hour and 37 minutes late but delays were on ALB-SDY and CSX [dep ALB 19 minutes late, SDY 44 minutes late, BUF 1 hour and 54 minutes late so it made up time between BUF and CHI]
CL #30(11/25): arrived WAS 44 minutes late. [arrived PGH 35 minutes late, dep RKV 1 hour and 22 minutes late]
LSL #48(11/25): arrived NYP on-time at 6:23 PM. [dep BYN 51 minutes late, dep CLE 1 minutes late].
Thread has gone quiet in recent weeks. The question is the NS meltdown fully over or is this just an early winter lull? I had not checked in a few days but saw that all four CLs and LSLs had a good run today. Perhaps the best combined OTP in a while.
CL #29(12/04): arrived CHI 40 minutes late. [departed CLE 25 minutes late]
LSL #49(12/04): arrived CHI 2 minutes late [dep ALB on-time, Erie 44 minutes late.]
CL #30(12/04): arrived WAS 11 minutes early. [dep SKY 31 minutes late]
LSL #48(12/04): arrived NYP 6 minutes early.
Unfortunately the Cardinal #50(12/04) was 1 hour and 37 minutes late arriving at WAS.
CL #29(12/04): arrived CHI 40 minutes late. [departed CLE 25 minutes late]
LSL #49(12/04): arrived CHI 2 minutes late [dep ALB on-time, Erie 44 minutes late.]
CL #30(12/04): arrived WAS 11 minutes early. [dep SKY 31 minutes late]
LSL #48(12/04): arrived NYP 6 minutes early.
Unfortunately the Cardinal #50(12/04) was 1 hour and 37 minutes late arriving at WAS.
neroden
Engineer
I'm thinking the STB letter got some serious attention. NS has also been accelerating its Bellevue, Ohio yard project which is designed to redirect traffic off of this line, but it's not supposed to be done until the end of the year.
Not sure if this is related, but Amtrak just put up an advisory saying that the SSL and Diner on the Capitol Limited will be replaced with a Diner/Lounge from 1/12/15 through 2/28/15 for "maintenance". It does not refer to any delays. What's going on here? Just a car shortage?
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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Indeed, it very apparently did! I just notice that the STB did not need the backing of the Amtrak Performance Standards validity of which is being debated, in order to issue a very effective letter. The problem boils down more often than not I think into getting Amtrak and STB to do their job. Nothing stops Amtrak from using the standards draft as the basis for filing endless set of complaints with STB and see what STB does. That will give an indication of whether this whole regime will work or not de jure performance standards in place or not. STB just needs to enforce a few, and the relevant parties will get the message and fall in line. OTOH, if the STB sits on its thumbs and does nothing, or equivocates, then all the tea in China won;t make a difference.
No doubt having a de jure standard in place rather than not is better. But I am not sure that the parties involved are exactly doing the most they can even in the absence of such, as a matter of course at present. For example, Amtrak apparently seems to have difficulty in putting together a cogent case for the LSL given its own issue with timekeeping under its own control. Ref: the Kabooki dance in Albany, and weird wasteful Conductor behavior on the Empire Corridor regarding handling of pax loading that no one seems to be able to fix.
neroden
Engineer
Probably. I remember riding on an SSL with cracked leaking windows a year ago. The SSLs may need more work than they've been getting, and for all I know the diners might too. This is the low season, probably the only time they could get away with a Diner/Lounge.
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If you are referring to the Sight-Seer Lounge and diner getting pulled from the CL, that is going to take place from Jan. 12 to the end of February. That is the slow season for many Amtrak routes, including the CL. Pulling the SSLs and diners for maintenance is a reasonable explanation. The supply of SSLs is tight and the numerous delays for much of 2014 with an extra consist for the EB likely put a strain on proper maintenance of the fleet and making Superliners available for their scheduled overhauls. January and February are the catch-up months.
We will be riding the CL in January and wish they would not pull both cars off at the same time. We have found the Cap pretty full when we travel in early January. But I suppose it would not work to pull the SSL and leave only the diner left for coach passengers. ^_^ Just need to get up early for breakfast on 30 to avoid the rush.. 
PaulM
Engineer
I think the term diner-lounge is a misnomer. The "lounge" part is so small that diner-2 tables would be a more accurate name. It's been my experience that the 2-table end is usually occupied by on board staff. Are they going to find another place when there is no actual lounge car?
jis
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There is a very interesting tidbit hidden away in a corner of the December 2014 Railpace Magazine related to these delays.
{begin paraphrase}
The American Train Dispatcher's Association filed a complaint with the FRA regarding Unified Train Control System auto-router (a product of GE as I have heard).
In the complaint they claim that the auto-router on occasions mis-routed trains, specially Amtrak trains into blocks that were supposed to have been protected for workers and hi-rail operation. They also complained that on occasions even after the auto-router was supposed to have been turned off, it continued to control signals and switches, without knowledge or ability of the dispatchers to do anything about it (the HAL effect). They further alleged that NS management prohibited overriding of the auto route function by the dispatcher to mitigate errors.
{end paraphrase}
Given this I am somewhat surprised that a few heads have not rolled at NS in the ranks of management, and if these allegations are trues there is very good reason to have much reduced confidence in the competence of NS management.
in short "what the f were they thinking? Have they taken complete leave of their common senses?"
Anyway, there would appear to be more to the fiasco at NS than just increased traffic as NS CEO Moorman claimed in response to the STB inquiry in what would appear to be a mother of a$$ covering by withholding relevant information.
I have roughly paraphrased the content of the article in Railpace in order to not run afoul of Copyrights. For the original see the Railpace December 2014 issue on page 9 title "ADTA Complaint Regarding Auto-Router".
{begin paraphrase}
The American Train Dispatcher's Association filed a complaint with the FRA regarding Unified Train Control System auto-router (a product of GE as I have heard).
In the complaint they claim that the auto-router on occasions mis-routed trains, specially Amtrak trains into blocks that were supposed to have been protected for workers and hi-rail operation. They also complained that on occasions even after the auto-router was supposed to have been turned off, it continued to control signals and switches, without knowledge or ability of the dispatchers to do anything about it (the HAL effect). They further alleged that NS management prohibited overriding of the auto route function by the dispatcher to mitigate errors.
{end paraphrase}
Given this I am somewhat surprised that a few heads have not rolled at NS in the ranks of management, and if these allegations are trues there is very good reason to have much reduced confidence in the competence of NS management.
in short "what the f were they thinking? Have they taken complete leave of their common senses?"
Anyway, there would appear to be more to the fiasco at NS than just increased traffic as NS CEO Moorman claimed in response to the STB inquiry in what would appear to be a mother of a$$ covering by withholding relevant information.
I have roughly paraphrased the content of the article in Railpace in order to not run afoul of Copyrights. For the original see the Railpace December 2014 issue on page 9 title "ADTA Complaint Regarding Auto-Router".
neroden
Engineer
acelafan
Conductor
I can't help myself, here are some performance charts for the Capitol Ltd and Lake Shore Ltd since November 1st. It seems the Capitol is doing better than Lake Shore in overall improvement, with #30 even early several times.
The huge spike in lateness around November 19th was that massive Buffalo snowstorm.
Would the complaint filed with the FRA be in the public record? Thus available somewhere on the FRA website?
With Amtrak having filed a complaint with the STB on NS, a separate complaint filed by the ATDA would support Amtrak's complaint. It likely will take years to for the STB to investigate and litigate the case, but NS may end up having to pay damages to Amtrak to cover the extra expenses for hotels & buses, additional crew costs, loss of business. Not going to be a lot of money, but the LD trains may book "other" income from a NS payment in a few years.
As for the effect of the STB letter, in general, the OTP for most of the LD trains appears to have been doing better since late October. The November OTP stats have not been posted yet, but my impression from random checks on Status Maps is that there have been fewer long delays*. Now some of this can be attributed to the end of track work season because it not a simple situation, but I wonder if the STB letter got the attention of the other Class 1's management who decided they would rather not get similar letters if they can help it.
* Except for CSX on the western Empire corridor and the Cardinal which has been having routine delays of several hours through IN and OH.
Norfolk Southern posted a Service Update on December 12. The good news is that all the track work on the northern region has been completed for the year. I think it shows with the better OTP of the CL and LSL over the NS segment. However, the track work crews have moved south for the winter and are going to result in Monday to Thursday cancellations of the Crescent for 6 weeks in January and February.
Some excerpts from the NS service update:
Some excerpts from the NS service update:
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