Card, CZ, CL, SL/TE Plans
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Devil's Advocate
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Where is it? Google doesn't seem to know and the last release I saw on Amtrak's own site was the Amtrak Envisions World Class High-Speed Rail entry. :huh:
Sorry, good question that I should have answered originally. Amtrak website, bottom of the page to INSIDE AMTRAK then REPORTS & DOCUMENTS in the section titled PRIIA SUBMISSIONS AND REPORTS.Where is it? Google doesn't seem to know and the last release I saw on Amtrak's own site was the Amtrak Envisions World Class High-Speed Rail entry.
The Cardinal, Capital Limited, and California Zephyr reports are on the Amtrak Reports & Documents web page at http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&p=1237608345018&cid=1241245669222. Don't see a report for the Sunset Limited or Texas Eagle yet, but those are also to be covered by the FY2010 reports.
Based on a quick skim of the reports, the Cardinal is the most interesting - go to daily service in late 2011 but stick with single level cars operating out of NYP. No switch to St. Louis as the destination, but splitting the train at Indianapolis for a St. Louis extension is regarded as a future possibility (distant however).
Based on a quick skim of the reports, the Cardinal is the most interesting - go to daily service in late 2011 but stick with single level cars operating out of NYP. No switch to St. Louis as the destination, but splitting the train at Indianapolis for a St. Louis extension is regarded as a future possibility (distant however).
Interesting, there was a Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle report posted at one point (I'm skimming it right now), but it has now been taken down. Cue the conspiracy theorists, I suppose.
Ryan
Court Jester
We could probably have a thread for each plan.
From the Cardnial's plan:
From the Cardnial's plan:
Amtrak having more domes would be AWESOME.
the_traveler
Engineer
That would mean the trans-dorm would have to be between the single level and Superliner cars. Unless the Pennsy bound passengers are expected to go without food!
The Capitol Limited report mentions the possibilty of switching things around so the sleepers are at the rear and the coaches up front.That would mean the trans-dorm would have to be between the single level and Superliner cars. Unless the Pennsy bound passengers are expected to go without food!
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
If you read the plan, you see they're requesting three sets of three cars: An AF food service car, an AFII coach and a sleeper.That would mean the trans-dorm would have to be between the single level and Superliner cars. Unless the Pennsy bound passengers are expected to go without food!
the_traveler
Engineer
But how do you get from the Viewliner or AFII coach to the Sightseer?
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Wouldn't need to... There's really no reason for the Sightseer on the CL West of PGH, you only get two hours of daylight each way out of Chicago, and most of the journey is at night without a need for food service.But how do you get from the Viewliner or AFII coach to the Sightseer?
There may just be a server or file link glitch. Or maybe someone found a typo in the posted report and had it pulled until the typo is fixed. Expect the sunset Limited & Texas Eagle report will be back on there in a day or two.
Going to be a busy week or two for Amtrak reports and news. The awards for the $2.3 billion of FY 2010 HSIPR funds were supposed to be announced by the end of September or early October. The end of the federal fiscal year gets all these reports pushed out just before the deadline.
L
LA Resident
Guest
Hate to say it, but after reading just the CZ and SL/TE reports, the chances of implementation are about as remote as putting into effect the same marvelous just-around-the-corner recommendations proffered year-after-year in the annual LOSSAN corridor (San Luis Obispo-LA-San Diego) reports from the So Cal rail consortium or in the yearly CALTRAN Rail Updates promising pie-in-the-sky improvements for LA-SF, LA-SD, SF-SAC ad infinitum ad nauseum.
The amount of boilerplate in these reports is truly disheartening. Just take one big, big issue in the CZ study: on-time performance, the figure alone dropping the CZ overall rating to a miserable below-average category despite generally good customer satisfaction marks. The "discussion" about how to get the "host railroads" to get their act together is so bland, so general, so abbreviated, and so devoid of detail as to warrant the arrest and jailing of the anonymous author(s) who properly didn't want their names attached prominently, or at all, to these reports.
The verbiage is most discouraging in its clear signal that Amtrak improvements (and public sector vitality in general) in the US is so daunting these days that you can probably waste two years just planning to implement a different mayonnaise for a on-board tuna sandwich.
I strongly disagree with that. The major issues facing the Zephyr's OTP in recent years were slow orders, and those were addressed in the report. The UP fixed theirs in FY09 (there may have been a few left over into this year, but the PRIIA metrics are based on FY08, and during that year, UP still had slow orders causing OTP problems). Then the Zephyr OTP actually went up for a while, then some of the worst rains and flooding we've seen since anyone can remember came and hit the BNSF side. BNSF is working on fixing slow orders related to the flooding. What more do you really need?
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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Actually the through section will consist ofIf you read the plan, you see they're requesting three sets of three cars: An AF food service car, an AFII coach and a sleeper.That would mean the trans-dorm would have to be between the single level and Superliner cars. Unless the Pennsy bound passengers are expected to go without food!
2x Amfleet II
1x Food Service
1x Viewliner
See section III.D on page 11.
Notice on page 12 it shows how track 1A is going to get connected back to track 1 at the west end. If this happens my surmise is that the Pennsy would be set up as:
Sleeper, Food Service, Amfleet II, Amfleet II, Amfleet I, BC.
Westbound after the cap arrives in PGH, the Cap power + baggage will be moved forward beyond the 1A west switch. The power of the Pennys will move the first four cars of the Pennsy to attach to the Cap just front of the Transdorm, and then the power will move back to 1A. Finally the Cap power and bag will get attached to the front of the Viewliner.
Similar operation will take place in reverse at the east end of the station for the eastbound.
I have also seen a scheme for doing the necessary work if the switch at the west end is not put back in, but it involves running the Cap in reverse order.
Through the TransdormBut how do you get from the Viewliner or AFII coach to the Sightseer?
That is not consistent with what the report says. It clearly says on page 11:
The proposed schedule on page 14 it is obvious that Dinner service out of Chicago and Breakfast service before arrival in Chicago will be involved. On page 16 it clearly says that primary food service will be provided to all passengers on the combined train out of the Super Diner. The Amfleet Food Service car will serve as a lounge/cafe for that segment, staffed out of New York base. On the New York Pittsburgh they are talking of tray meals like on LSL Boston section for Sleeper passengers. Perhaps they could do what is done on Cardinal. That seemed quite good to me.
BTW, here is something that ALC might like:
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I think it's more likely that the consist would be setup such that the Transition sleeper would be on the rear. That way, the eastbound Capitol can just "cut and run," and the westbound can pull past the station, then back onto the extra cars.
No sense in inserting/removing cars from the middle. Adds too much complexity to the operation, and significantly increases the amount of time to do the switching.
No sense in inserting/removing cars from the middle. Adds too much complexity to the operation, and significantly increases the amount of time to do the switching.
J
jimhudson
Guest
The switching/consist makeup on the three routes that I have experienced are the LSL in Albany, the EB in SPK and the Sunset/Eagle in SAS! By far the most intricate and time consuming is the one in SAS since it occurs in the middle of the night and it disrupts folkssleep/rest since they are still in their rooms! The switching in ALB and SPK seem to go off smoothly and quickly! Guess it depends on the host RR, the positioning of the tracks and the phases of the moon based on what Ive seen in some of the yards! :lol:
jis
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Either scheme works. As stated in the report, the operations people will work out the details and choose one. The proposal that Joe Versaggi had submitted to Amtrak had the single level cars in the rear and his scheme did not even require the new switch at the west end. Perhaps that scheme can be used to start up a coach transfer as early as next year, is what I am hearing. Viewliners won't become available for this until 2013 anyway.
jis
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The report says that initially it will continue with the current setup, since there are no more full Diners available until the Viewliner Diners start coming in post-2013. This change is being targeted for Fall 2011 is what I understand from the report.
the_traveler
Engineer
Yes the SAS switching is the most intricate, but it did not disturb my sleep on the eastbound TE.
I fell asleep just after we arrived in SAS. I had wanted to see the switching being done, but when I woke up, we were just pulling out of SAS at 7 AM!
Hmmmmm, dome cars for the Cardinal. A railfan's dream. Even as a possible diner replacement. I wonder if the old AOE domes are available? I also know a few domes that would require some serious rehab. I wonder what domes Amtrak is considering buying. This is a route that cries out for a dome.
One of the most common complaints mentioned in the California Zephyr report is the condition of bathrooms. Not necessarily surprising on a, what?, 52 hour train. However, I don't recall anything specific other than just mentioning train attendants needing to dedicate more attention to restrooms. Perhaps a more thorough cleaning of the train, restrooms included, in DEN or SLC would make sense.
kentuckian1977
Service Attendant
Well I'm very pleased that the Cardinal may be going daily in as soon as a year from now. If they don't do anything else, that'll be a great move for those of us in Kentucky, in that we will be able to do out one day and back the next trips to points like Charlottesville for fun, and for longer trips obviously it would great simplify connections to other trains. One thing I hopefully latched onto was where it says "It preserves the possibility of a future St. Louis gateway connection that could be achieved by splitting the train at Indianapolis or Cincinnati and operating a section west to St. Louis." I was pleased to see that "or Cincinnati" thrown in there, because I would personally love to see them split the Card there at some point in the future, and run a section Cincy - Louisville - St. Louis, via the old L&N Short Line to Louisville and then the ex-Southern NS line to St. Louis. This would return service to Louisville in a way that provided both access to St. Louis and points west and also to Washington and New York. I can't imagine what else they'd have in mind for ever possibly splitting the train in Cincy, rather than in Indy. I know there is a way to get from Cincy - St. Louis without going through Indy or Louisville, but what would be the point of that. Anyway, whether St. Louis section ever happens or not, the daily thing will greatly improve the train, especially if they go with a dome!
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