Cardinal Observational Update

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As of yesterday the Cardinal still has its 2 sleepers and we're well beyond the reported trial period of the end of August. They've managed to get that extra Viewliner on every consist I have seen (and that's almost all of them) since about 7/6.

Yesterday #51 had two P42s leading the usual consist plus 2 dome PVs: The Puget Sound and Sierra Hotel. #50 had the PV Santa Fe (AT&SF-56) bringing up the rear.

I also witnessed a roving agent handing out seat checks half an hour ahead of time and actually weighing some folks carry-ons and charging $20 if it was over 50 lbs (total, not each).
 
As of yesterday the Cardinal still has its 2 sleepers and we're well beyond the reported trial period of the end of August. They've managed to get that extra Viewliner on every consist I have seen (and that's almost all of them) since about 7/6.
Well, the extra sleeper is a substantial benefit to the Cardinal's bottom line, so that's good business sense. Good to hear.

Yesterday #51 had two P42s leading the usual consist plus 2 dome PVs: The Puget Sound and Sierra Hotel. #50 had the PV Santa Fe (AT&SF-56) bringing up the rear.

I also witnessed a roving agent handing out seat checks half an hour ahead of time and actually weighing some folks carry-ons and charging $20 if it was over 50 lbs (total, not each).
That's incorrect behavior: Amtrak policy is 50 pounds *per* carry-on. "Each item should not exceed 50 lbs."
 
Amtrak should build the Cardinal brand by making the train more recognizable and memorable.

They could begin by refurbishing the trainsets used on that route with a deep (dark) red based color motif and décor. Each car could be fitted with a deep red seat fabric and carpet, paired with a light grey drape and overhead ceiling carpet. Such would match the current seatbacks and tray tables nicely. The café/lounge could be done in the same colors, deep red and light grey. The exterior could remain shiny aluminum and have a large, illuminated Cardinal logo emblazoned on the side of the car near each doorway. Similarly, the Viewliners could have the same color scheme as opposed to the blue seat colors now used.

Secondly, if they could do it, Amtrak should refurbish a dome car to ride the rear of the train from Chicago to Washington to Chicago. The advertising of such a car and its features would call attention to the route and please a lot of passengers by creating a second, spacious lounge. Then, a marketing campaign could target the communities and municipalities along the route to call attention to the new look and services offered.

The Cardinal may not be in the same category as the Coast Starlight in terms of perks and amenities. However, it does have the possibility for great passenger appeal and ridership growth if the train appears to be unique and the route is well marketed. In terms of the cost of retrofitting cars with the "new look", every machine (railcars are no exception) at some point needs heavy maintenance and an interior change. Somewhere there are Amtrak cars that need to be refurbished anyway, and suitable to be renovated into a "new look" Cardinal trainset. So, essentially, justifying the cost of the retrofitting could be realistic and doable.
 
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All of these ideas would be great, but the train needs to operate on a much faster schedule without the terribly slow running in Indiana. And operate every day, not just three days per week. And a full scale diner with a special menu fit for the great train you describe. :)
 
As of yesterday the Cardinal still has its 2 sleepers and we're well beyond the reported trial period of the end of August. They've managed to get that extra Viewliner on every consist I have seen (and that's almost all of them) since about 7/6.
The extra sleepers will operate for at least another month or so.
 
Cardinal does not have dedicated equipment
It certainly doesn't. Sometimes Chicago sends back the exact same consist that it got, sometimes even with the same P42. Sometimes the consist is different in varying, sometimes puzzling, degrees. The consists from NY are often different cars and even more often still have their numbers from the Silver Service runs.
 
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Agreed Amtrak doesn't currently have the capability to dedicate a set(s) of equipment. But doesn't mean it can't and shouldn't be done.

Just about any feature train prior to Amtrak had dedicated cars. All it requires is a reliable schedule and sufficient servicing, switching, and storage facilities at the two terminals. While poor timekeeping is certainly a big part of it, the current slow turnaround time and resulting poor equipment utilization is costly and inefficient.
 
The ability to interchange consists between the east coast trains increases equipment utilization and efficiency.

Making equipment captive to one route will have the opposite effect you're looking for.
 
Agreed Amtrak doesn't currently have the capability to dedicate a set(s) of equipment. But doesn't mean it can't and shouldn't be done.

Just about any feature train prior to Amtrak had dedicated cars. All it requires is a reliable schedule and sufficient servicing, switching, and storage facilities at the two terminals. While poor timekeeping is certainly a big part of it, the current slow turnaround time and resulting poor equipment utilization is costly and inefficient.
No, having captive equipment to one route is far less efficient. Amtrak would have to maintain an extra set for maintenance, overhauls, and inspections that would sit around much of the time.
I question whether having dedicated equipment in a specialized Cardinal livery would result in any measurable increase in ridership or revenue. Why would it?
 
All of these ideas would be great, but the train needs to operate on a much faster schedule without the terribly slow running in Indiana. And operate every day, not just three days per week. And a full scale diner with a special menu fit for the great train you describe. :)
"Speed" and "Amtrak" do not mix, outside of the NEC. (And compared to other HSR around the world, hardly there.)

I doubt doing anything to tighten the Card's schedule would result in any increase in PAX.

Other than treating sleeper class passengers like First Class, increasing frequency/capacity, and improving OTP and connections, I cannot think of actions that would truly increase the already-strained LD trains ridership.

It is my humble belief, (and apparently, way-wrong) that most LD travelers take a train to:

  1. Enjoy the scenery en-route
  2. Enjoy meeting new and interesting characters on-board. (just look at The Davy Crockett!)
  3. Enjoy a non-rushed, "off-grid" atmosphere.
  4. Enjoy on-board amenities. (Lounge car, big windows, adult beverages, wine tasting, delicious meals..... etc., etc.)
  5. Don't truly care if train is on time, as long as it's not "too" late, and causes a missed conx.
  6. Experience sleeping on a train, and First Class treatment.
  7. Don't like the experience of TSA gropers/airports, or the act of flying itself.
I've reluctantly fallen into the camp that thinks, "We are just lucky to have any LD trains at all............."
 
Regardless, I think that the addition of a Dome Car would be a huge win for this train. Amtrak would need to purchase them, but they can be found on the PV market and would have the potential to add so much to the customer experience.

I think it would be a great opportunity for Virginia and West Virginia to step up and perhaps provide the capital costs to procure it. It would be a terrific PR move to have "Dominion Class" lounge service for a scenic ride through some of the most picturesque settings of both states.
 
if I were King,,,,

I would market the Cardinal on the Scenery,,,

I don't think anything matches it east of the Rockies

Daily would help a lot,,,,,,,

and of course picking up the pace in Indiana,,,

one of the main reasons I drive to GBB to get the CZ
 
Obviously there has to be a few standby cars in major terminals to replace cars removed for regular maintenance (which Amtrak already does), but pre Amtrak the 20th Century Ltd. or Capitol Ltd. would make same day turns at their terminals while the Silver Meteor with its feature observation car and mid train sun room lounge/sleeper required just 3 sets for its 26 hour trip. Today, a Capitol limited sitting in Washington for 21 hours or 24 hours for the tri weekly Sunset in New Orleans or 22 hours there for the CONO can't be anyone's idea of good utilization. The cost of poor utilization most be astounding.

As to the Cardinal, its scenic route certainly lends itself to upgraded equipment but, as RR Bill said, that is a wasted effort until the route itself is upgraded with faster times, and a schedule that lends itself to quicker turnarounds in both cities on a daily basis. Today's schedule from Cincinnati to Chicago on its convoluted routing is 2 hrs and 40min slower than it was on Amtrak in 1976.

The LSL is another example of a poorly operated train. While it's easy to blame it on NS/CSX, 55 minutes to split out the Boston section at Albany (it took 30min in 1976), 20-30 min. station stops in Cleveland and Toledo (instead of 5 and 10 in '76), and having to run it south because its too cold in the winter is just sad.
 
As of yesterday the Cardinal still has its 2 sleepers and we're well beyond the reported trial period of the end of August. They've managed to get that extra Viewliner on every consist I have seen (and that's almost all of them) since about 7/6.
The extra sleepers will operate for at least another month or so.
Sorry to report that on Sept. 16 train 50 left Chicago with only one sleeper--despite the fact that roomettes/BRs had already been sold for a second sleeper. (I was NOT a happy camper when I was told my long-reserved roomette wasn't on the train, while boarding at midnight in Indianapolis, after a 4-hour bus ride and 1 1/2 hours waiting in the insalubrious IND station, to make connection from late-running CZ.)

Conductor didn't know exactly why no second sleeper this run--said that the Cardinal had arrived in Chicago with two sleepers but left with just one.

Trip report to come, if/when I find time to write it.
 
That's a risk on any train when a sleeper goes bad-ordered.

No extra Viewliners laying around in CHI, so if one shows up broken and can't go out, that's what happens.

Sorry for your bad luck.
 
Sorry to report that on Sept. 16 train 50 left Chicago with only one sleeper--despite the fact that roomettes/BRs had already been sold for a second sleeper.
I was dismayed to see that when it came through Charlottesville. I wondered what became of the pax booked on the other sleeper. Just a refund I guess.
There was another oddity in the consist. A FRA coach (DOTX 221) was between the loco and baggage car - looked like PV with burgundy livery IIRC.
 
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I doubt doing anything to tighten the Card's schedule would result in any increase in PAX.
It would increase passengers a lot... at least if there were enough carriages to hold the passengers. Going daily would be far more beneficial.

Even with all the other reasons people may choose to take a train, *they would still like to get to their destination relatively efficiently*.

Of course, there aren't enough carriages. The new Viewliner sleepers can't show up soon enough. My estimates say that each one will generate between $1.0 - 2.6 million per year in revenue, with relatively small added costs.
 
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I doubt doing anything to tighten the Card's schedule would result in any increase in PAX.
It would increase passengers a lot... at least if there were enough carriages to hold the passengers. Going daily would be far more beneficial.

Even with all the other reasons people may choose to take a train, *they would still like to get to their destination relatively efficiently*.

Of course, there aren't enough carriages. The new Viewliner sleepers can't show up soon enough. My estimates say that each one will generate between $1.0 - 2.6 million per year in revenue, with relatively small added costs.
"Carriages?" Are you English, Neroden?
 
As of yesterday the Cardinal still has its 2 sleepers and we're well beyond the reported trial period of the end of August. They've managed to get that extra Viewliner on every consist I have seen (and that's almost all of them) since about 7/6.
The extra sleepers will operate for at least another month or so.
Means two sleepers on a train without a full diner.

Could this be Amtrak testing a concept? One way to

keep the promise to eliminate losses in food & beverage?

Or just a good sign that the Cardinal may be among

the first trains to benefit when the new diners arrive

and the Viewliner IIs are added to the pool?
 
The Cardinal can only use a diner-lite because of the short consist. It's really nothing to do with how many sleepers, it's to do with how many total passengers are travelling far enough to need something better than the cafe. The Cardinal has 3 coaches + 2 sleepers, vs. 6 + 3 for the LSL.

I never get tired of repeating that half the patronage on the LSL dining car is from coach.

Of course, one thing which Amtrak has never reported is *per-train* F&B numbers, let alone diner vs. cafe numbers. Boardman said at one point that the cafes were all profitable. But we don't really know whether some trains do much better on F&B than others. I would expect so, and I'd expect it to be the longest trains.

Hmm. Free-associating... Amtrak is historically known for cross-subsidies. I begin to wonder whether the plan to "eliminate F&B losses" will partly mean more cafe car profits cross-subsidizing the fixed costs of the dining cars.

And perhaps cross-subsidies from better-performing dining cars to worse-performing ones. Obviously more passengers on the train overall means more passengers eating, and the eastern consists will be lengthened as the Viewliner IIs arrive. And Amtrak can reduce some costs by replacing the Heritage cars. (Amtrak made a big point that they would be able to load food into the Viewliner diners in prepacked carts or pallets, which implies that the process of stocking the Heritage diners was much more labor-intensive than that.)

You can get some more revenue out of the dining cars if tables are turned efficiently and the burdensome archaic paperwork is eliminated, which could be quite significant if it allows more people to be served per day: this would apply to all dining cars. But apart from that, I see no plausible bottom line improvements for Superliner dining cars.
 
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The Cardinal can only use a diner-lite because of the short consist. It's ... how many total passengers are travelling far enough to need something better than the cafe. The Cardinal has 3 coaches + 2 sleepers, vs. 6 + 3 for the LSL.



… Amtrak has never reported is *per-train* F&B numbers ... Boardman said at one point that the cafes were all profitable. But we don't really know whether some trains do much better on F&B than others. I would expect so, and I'd expect it to be the longest trains.

Hmm. Free-associating... Amtrak is historically known for cross-subsidies. I begin to wonder whether the plan to "eliminate F&B losses" will partly mean more cafe car profits cross-subsidizing the fixed costs of the dining cars.

… reduce some costs by replacing the Heritage cars. ... able to load food into the Viewliner diners in prepacked carts or pallets … more revenue out of the dining cars if tables are turned efficiently and the burdensome archaic paperwork is eliminated .... But apart from that, I see no plausible bottom line improvements for Superliner dining cars.
If more equipment were available, the Cardinal could add another coach as well. (As could other Eastern trains.) But that may have to wait, at least until the arrival of the bi-levels in the Midwest and Cali cascades those Amfleets into the Eastern pool. That should allow taking the Cardinal daily, and slashing the loss per passenger figures that look so bad.

Of course Amtrak will cross-subsidize into a total F&B figure. I'm sure they hated the $20 hamburger (or whatever was the damn number). They'll try to bury all details like that. And probably right to do so. It only invites micromanaging. If they break even on F&B overall, why should Congress need to know if they lose money selling hamburgers on the Crescent south of Atlanta? C'mon.

Hate to say, but eliminating paperwork in the dining cars could significantly reduce, uh, shrinkage and similar cash leaks. Let's stipulate that almost all employees are honest, but not all. Those who are not become like the large numbers of monkeys on typewriters, and eventually they'll write a handbook on how to cheat, with chapters on throwing a couple of hams out the back window to a partner and the how-to of "miscounting" the cash receipts. Going with pre-packed food carts and electronic payment will ruin the usefulness of the current cheaters' handbook.

I'm hoping to see enuff improvements for the Eastern trains resulting from the Viewliner II order to make a stronger financial case for buying hundreds of single-level coaches for "the trains with some new equipment that are doing so much better." Then politically it's easier to get new orders for the Superliner fleet as well.
 
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I like the way you think, Woody.

I'm not sure why the point-of-sale electronics deployment has been so slow in the cafes, but I can't wait for it to be deployed in the dining cars. If tickets are checked electronically, surely orders can be taken electronically... should be an easier problem...
 
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