Changing rooms - are there any rules?

[Phil S]

I posted earlier about swapping roomettes, but I think this deserves a new thread. Ticketed on 3 legs - 51, 3, 14. Called up a week ago to change from lower to upper roomette. Did so on 14 but nothing available on 3. Told by agent (and by you folks) to keep checking.

Today I'm in the CHI lounge and thought I'd give it another try. Computer in lounge isn't so had to go to ticket counter.

Counter agent - "Yes, #17 is available but it will cost you $100 or whatever. No, I don;t care what you've been told on the phone or other station agents have done, I can't change rooms for you w/o upping the fare. Call Amtrak. If they can rebook, I can reissue the ticket."

20 minutes on hold, then "No, we can't do that." "Yes, you can, you do it all the time." "Let me check with supervisor." 10 minutes later "It's done, you're in #17"

Walk over to ticket agent "Nope, you're still in the lower room". "Does it take time for the change to go through?" "No, should be immediate, as soon as she hits enter." "Is there a supervisor on duty?" Supervisor "Let's see what we can do......What's the problem? You're in 17."

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Question: Are there any rules for this or do they just make it up as they go along? I asked CHI asst super if rules changed once the ticket has been issued and she said that procedures change greatly, but didn't really answer my question about whether rules change.

Or maybe rules are different on the day of travel?

Or, as I said, do the agents just make this up as they go along?

I'd like to know because I really prefer to follow the rules. When I got back to lounge I asked one of the ladies there and she told me that agent was just "doing me a courtesy". I asked her " so how about they do me the courtesy the first time I ask instead of the third?" No answer.

Ok, Chief boards in a while,so I won't have e-mail until Sunday. Cardinal was just beautiful last night throught he mountains, and got into CHI pretty much on time.

I look forward to having the rules explained to me

 

[roadman3313]

Is Room 17 in the Transdorm? Changing rooms generally hasn't been a problem when I asked.

Though sometimes prices do change. I booked a trip from EMY-RNO for a friend and her daughter for this upcoming weekend in a Roomette. I did the initial booking in December and the roomette prices were $117 on the way up and $148 on the way down. I check last week and the prices went to $86 on the way up and $209 on the way back. Checked again today and it is $148 on the way up and $86 on the way back. I called back last week to get the fare reduced on the room to $86 on the way up. I called today to get it reduced to $86 on the way back.

So now the trip is at the low bucket price by changing the day before. I just was surprised about how the prices go up and down. Booking early doesn't always mean getting a lower rate. Figured prices went up and down but not from $209 to $86 for a roomette on the same train the closer you get to booking.

That's the only time I've had a rate adjusted though... though they did change the room each time I asked for the rate reduction as they rebooked it I believe. I could have requested back to the same room as before but that's the way the computer did it and I just decided to keep it.

 

[Phil S]

Is Room 17 in the Transdorm? Changing rooms generally hasn't been a problem when I asked.
Though sometimes prices do change. I booked a trip from EMY-RNO for a friend and her daughter for this upcoming weekend in a Roomette. I did the initial booking in December and the roomette prices were $117 on the way up and $148 on the way down. I check last week and the prices went to $86 on the way up and $209 on the way back. Checked again today and it is $148 on the way up and $86 on the way back. I called back last week to get the fare reduced on the room to $86 on the way up. I called today to get it reduced to $86 on the way back.

So now the trip is at the low bucket price by changing the day before. I just was surprised about how the prices go up and down. Booking early doesn't always mean getting a lower rate. Figured prices went up and down but not from $209 to $86 for a roomette on the same train the closer you get to booking.

That's the only time I've had a rate adjusted though... though they did change the room each time I asked for the rate reduction as they rebooked it I believe. I could have requested back to the same room as before but that's the way the computer did it and I just decided to keep it.

Yup, I actually like the transdorm. Seems the bathrooms down below stay cleaner, for some reason. And, yes, one wonders exactly why the prices can go down like that. I assume it means a whole wad of folks cancelled, but that just doesn't seem likely, so maybe there are other factors at work?

 

[RRrich]

Sure sounds like they are making up the roles as they go. Hence we tell folks to keep asking until you get the answer you want and then jump on it. Is this any way to run a railroad? :angry:

 

[Ryan]

I think that it's a skill level/training thing.

I'd love to have an experienced agent explain how it works and correct any misconceptions that we have, but it seems that some agents know how to do it and others don't (and just say that it can't be done).

 

[roadman3313]

Is Room 17 in the Transdorm? Changing rooms generally hasn't been a problem when I asked.
Though sometimes prices do change. I booked a trip from EMY-RNO for a friend and her daughter for this upcoming weekend in a Roomette. I did the initial booking in December and the roomette prices were $117 on the way up and $148 on the way down. I check last week and the prices went to $86 on the way up and $209 on the way back. Checked again today and it is $148 on the way up and $86 on the way back. I called back last week to get the fare reduced on the room to $86 on the way up. I called today to get it reduced to $86 on the way back.

So now the trip is at the low bucket price by changing the day before. I just was surprised about how the prices go up and down. Booking early doesn't always mean getting a lower rate. Figured prices went up and down but not from $209 to $86 for a roomette on the same train the closer you get to booking.

That's the only time I've had a rate adjusted though... though they did change the room each time I asked for the rate reduction as they rebooked it I believe. I could have requested back to the same room as before but that's the way the computer did it and I just decided to keep it.

Yup, I actually like the transdorm. Seems the bathrooms down below stay cleaner, for some reason. And, yes, one wonders exactly why the prices can go down like that. I assume it means a whole wad of folks cancelled, but that just doesn't seem likely, so maybe there are other factors at work?

I thought about that too but I figured the pricing would go down one bucket, not all the way to the low bucket. I figured maybe they added a car but that doesn't seem to be the case either as there seem to only be the two sleeping cars of inventory. The train has been sold out in coach though now for over a month. 4 Seats in coach for the return trip EMY-RNO just opened up, however with the room price reduction it is actually less expensive to purchase the Roomette for two than two coach seats, and that's even before you factor in that the meals (Breakfast and Lunch) are included!

 

[Trogdor]

I think that it's a skill level/training thing.
I'd love to have an experienced agent explain how it works and correct any misconceptions that we have, but it seems that some agents know how to do it and others don't (and just say that it can't be done).

I'm not an experienced agent, but have some familiarity with the workings of Arrow.

The system is far more complicated than most people realize (I laugh to myself when I read on here about the "limitations of Arrow" and "Arrow can't do that" when the people making the claim have never even entered two keystrokes in Arrow). There's quite a bit that I don't even know about what it can and can't do, but I've seen plenty of what the system can do.

First, for better or for worse, there is no simple "switch rooms" feature in Arrow. When a room is requested, it automatically gets taken out of inventory and assigned to the passenger in the PNR. When someone wants to change rooms, what actually is happening is a new room is requested, and the old room is released. The new room gets automatically priced at whatever the going rate is for the next available room on that train for that city pair. The system doesn't know that you're just swapping rooms. For all it knows, you're booking another room, which it's getting from current inventory. You always want to secure the new room first before releasing the old room just in case someone else grabs it in the few seconds it takes to run through the commands to book a room.

The policy is that if someone already has a reservation and wants to change rooms, then the original fare should be protected. If the current fare is higher than the fare they paid, it requires manual pricing. Most manual pricing situations require a supervisor's approval (I can't recall if this specific one does; I'm thinking not because it's written in the policy), but if an agent is unfamiliar with the rule, they're probably going to be uncomfortable doing it without getting a supervisor. (And, because I know there are people on this forum who would try and do this: NO. If you encounter an agent that says they need to get supervisory approval for the change, don't tell them they don't need to do so because you already know the rules because you read them on the internet somewhere. I say that because I know there are folks that like to throw the rulebook at people despite not having the first clue of how other people's jobs are done.)

The policy may not be that well known because it's written on page 957 of a 15,000-page rulebook somewhere (not exactly, but that's the gist of it), and if people don't make this kind of request that often, an agent isn't likely to remember the exact policy or rules.

When making a new reservation, there is a way for the agent to specify what room to book as opposed to letting the computer assign the next one in its internal order (the order of which can vary depending on the situation). However, most agents will let the computer auto-assign the room (which is a slightly different entry). If the fare is the last available in a given bucket, this can give the appearance that the specific room requested is priced higher by default. That is incorrect. If (in a new reservation) the agent releases the auto-assigned room first, and then selects the new room, the prices should be equal. But the risk here is that in the process of releasing the first room and specifically requesting the second room, someone else may book a room, bumping up the price.

As for the buckets themselves, not all buckets are available on all train departures. High-demand trains may start out at higher buckets and never have lower-bucket fares available. In some cases, revenue management may skip buckets, selling a couple rooms at the D bucket, and skipping C and going directly to B for the next set of rooms. I don't know why they do this, but that's not my area. Likewise, if a train isn't selling, they might open up more low-bucket space, which is why you might have a higher-priced ticket and one day check to find that rooms are selling at a fare two or three buckets below what you paid.

Contrary to popular belief on here, there isn't a single set amount of rooms at each bucket, and not all bucket increases/decreases are due to bookings and cancellations. There is a very active revenue management system in place to try and get the most out of every available train. This has become even more important in recent years as Amtrak has run up against the limits of available capacity system-wide and the only way to boost revenue is through pricing.

 

[fairviewroad]

Are there any rules about changing rooms? Well, one should never spend more than 10 minutes in there.

It's impolite to other passengers, and it...oh, wait. I think this thread is about something else! :giggle:

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Are there any rules about changing rooms? Well, one should never spend more than 10 minutes in there.It's impolite to other passengers, and it...oh, wait. I think this thread is about something else! :giggle:

That was my first thought too. :giggle:

 

[ScottC4746]

I had to read this one. I saw the subject and thought they have changing rooms for people in coach.

 

[Steve4031]

Trogdor, thanks for your explanation. It was informative. Usually if I get an agent that can't or won't do something I just say thank you and move on to the next agent. Usually I can get done whatever I was trying to accomplish.

 

[daveyb99]

When is AMTRAK going to get away from this silly practice of assigning a specific fare to a specific room. Airlines do not do that, and AMTRAK should follow suit. In addition, they should allow customers to book their own Bed/Roomette via the website, just like airlines do with seat assignments. It is not that complicated -- well, maybe for the old system AMTRAK uses -- but they need to upgrade it promptly.

 

[roadman3313]

Market rate would make more sense. Somewhat of supply and projected demand more similar to Rental Car prices which go up and down freely. I would assume price it a low early on... then move higher... then if Inventory isn't being cleared enough a few days before departure have a room or two at the lowest rate to boost your sales. Makes more sence than leaving very high priced rooms open if they used a fixed system based on firm inventory numbers.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Are there any rules about changing rooms? Well, one should never spend more than 10 minutes in there.It's impolite to other passengers, and it...oh, wait. I think this thread is about something else! :giggle:

That was my first thought too. :giggle:

I was thinking something along the lines of "Well, leave it cleaner than you found it, and don't use all the towels..."

 

[Trogdor]

When is AMTRAK going to get away from this silly practice of assigning a specific fare to a specific room. Airlines do not do that, and AMTRAK should follow suit. In addition, they should allow customers to book their own Bed/Roomette via the website, just like airlines do with seat assignments. It is not that complicated -- well, maybe for the old system AMTRAK uses -- but they need to upgrade it promptly.

If you'd read my reply, you'd note that they DON'T assign a specific fare to a specific room.

Also, Airlines do assign fares to seats. Try to book a window seat (even in coach) forward of the emergency exist and it'll cost you extra. A middle seat will cost you a bit less. Exit rows cost more. This is even on airlines that don't have an economy plus type of product.

Also, airlines' reservation systems are just as old as Amtrak's.

 

[Guest]

When is AMTRAK going to get away from this silly practice of assigning a specific fare to a specific room. Airlines do not do that, and AMTRAK should follow suit. In addition, they should allow customers to book their own Bed/Roomette via the website, just like airlines do with seat assignments. It is not that complicated -- well, maybe for the old system AMTRAK uses -- but they need to upgrade it promptly.

If you'd read my reply, you'd note that they DON'T assign a specific fare to a specific room.

Also, Airlines do assign fares to seats. Try to book a window seat (even in coach) forward of the emergency exist and it'll cost you extra. A middle seat will cost you a bit less. Exit rows cost more. This is even on airlines that don't have an economy plus type of product.

Also, airlines' reservation systems are just as old as Amtrak's.

Amtrak shouldn't (and won't) let customers select their own room while booking online.

The main reason customers shouldn't pick their own rooms when booking is because of Amtrak's liberal cancellation/change policy and the fact that unlike an airplane, all passengers aren't traveling between the same two city pairs. They could end up with lots of scattered empty rooms between mid-points, end-point to mid-points, etc., and yet the train would show no rooms available from end-point to end-point.

The vast majority of passengers do not really care what room they are in and adding that extra step would make reserving online a more complicated and confusing transaction for most people.

 

[amamba]

Trogdor, thank you for the explanation. I do have a question about manual repricing - which I know is possible.

For example, I had a ticket booked the other day from BOS - NYP. I was originally planning on going to BOS, but that wasn't possible so I was hoping to change it to RTE - NYP. Of course when I go to the station they say that if I do that, I have to pay the new bucket price. Why can't those agents just manually reprice it to the fare I originally paid, since I am now on the train for less time?

The agent just told me to not bother reticketing and board in RTE. So I did. But it seems that this should be a situation where manual repricing would make sense.

 

[RRrich]

So Amtrak does have rules, which Trogdor was kind enough to explain :hi: However since the agents either do not know or follow said rules, effectively Amtrak does NOT have rules and we should continue to keep calling until we get an agent who does what we want! h34r:

 

[Guest]

So Amtrak does have rules, which Trogdor was kind enough to explain :hi: However since the agents either do not know or follow said rules, effectively Amtrak does NOT have rules and we should continue to keep calling until we get an agent who does what we want! h34r:

Amtrak does have rules. Unfortunately, either this was never covered in initial training or agents just so rarely have anyone caring about which room they are in that the agent forgets the policy.

If you "keep calling until we get an agent who does what we want," you're not solving the problem -- you're perpetuating it. If you don't get an agent who knows how to switch rooms at the same fare, ask for a supervisor so you get what you want on your first call and the agent is reminded of the policy and can better assist you the next time you call. This is what I do since I don't care to call back and wait on hold again while my cell minutes tick away.

 

[fairviewroad]

The main reason customers shouldn't pick their own rooms when booking is because of Amtrak's liberal cancellation/change policy and the fact that unlike an airplane, all passengers aren't traveling between the same two city pairs. They could end up with lots of scattered empty rooms between mid-points, end-point to mid-points, etc., and yet the train would show no rooms available from end-point to end-point.

This is a good point. Another difference between Amtrak and the airlines is that when you fly, the airplane is always oriented in the same direction (i.e. forward). But a sleeping car can face either direction and you'll never know until the day of the departure. So if you book "on the left" on train 14 expecting to face the ocean, you may

be sorely disappointed and demand refunds, etc. By leaving it to chance you at least prevent inflated expectations about which way you'll be facing.

 

[daveyb99]

When is AMTRAK going to get away from this silly practice of assigning a specific fare to a specific room. Airlines do not do that, and AMTRAK should follow suit. In addition, they should allow customers to book their own Bed/Roomette via the website, just like airlines do with seat assignments. It is not that complicated -- well, maybe for the old system AMTRAK uses -- but they need to upgrade it promptly.

If you'd read my reply, you'd note that they DON'T assign a specific fare to a specific room.

Also, Airlines do assign fares to seats. Try to book a window seat (even in coach) forward of the emergency exist and it'll cost you extra. A middle seat will cost you a bit less. Exit rows cost more. This is even on airlines that don't have an economy plus type of product.

Also, airlines' reservation systems are just as old as Amtrak's.

I did read your post, and that is not the experiences I have had. I have, through 1-800 reservations, tried to book a Room and was offered #1 ... when I asked for #2 instead, the fare was higher. Same for trying for two across the hallway ... I got #3 and #7, but when I asked for #6, it was a higher cost. In both cases, the lower fare was still availabe.

And NO, airlines do not charge a Fare difference for a seat. They might charge a Fee for a seat, but not a Fare difference. (which, btw, the Fee avoid payment of taxes, which cheats us all as that money goes to upgrade airports and air traffic control).

 

[daveyb99]

When is AMTRAK going to get away from this silly practice of assigning a specific fare to a specific room. Airlines do not do that, and AMTRAK should follow suit. In addition, they should allow customers to book their own Bed/Roomette via the website, just like airlines do with seat assignments. It is not that complicated -- well, maybe for the old system AMTRAK uses -- but they need to upgrade it promptly.

If you'd read my reply, you'd note that they DON'T assign a specific fare to a specific room.

Also, Airlines do assign fares to seats. Try to book a window seat (even in coach) forward of the emergency exist and it'll cost you extra. A middle seat will cost you a bit less. Exit rows cost more. This is even on airlines that don't have an economy plus type of product.

Also, airlines' reservation systems are just as old as Amtrak's.

Amtrak shouldn't (and won't) let customers select their own room while booking online.

The main reason customers shouldn't pick their own rooms when booking is because of Amtrak's liberal cancellation/change policy and the fact that unlike an airplane, all passengers aren't traveling between the same two city pairs. They could end up with lots of scattered empty rooms between mid-points, end-point to mid-points, etc., and yet the train would show no rooms available from end-point to end-point.

The vast majority of passengers do not really care what room they are in and adding that extra step would make reserving online a more complicated and confusing transaction for most people.

You are saying the computer prevents 'scattered empty rooms'. hardley, I say. Plus, we are also talking about 14 roomette and 5 bedrooms --- quite a small inventory.

PLUS --- ref your mid-points points, well ... I have been blocked out of a Bedroom before for a 24-hour trip because it was blocked by someone riding 1-hour. How is that efficient, or any different than people picking their own room (which, if they do not want to, could select 'auto assign' at booking ... like selecting Yes or No to the travel insurance),

I would have had to vacate or move to another Bedroom or even to Coach. So the computer goofed that one up, huh

 

[AlanB]

When is AMTRAK going to get away from this silly practice of assigning a specific fare to a specific room. Airlines do not do that, and AMTRAK should follow suit. In addition, they should allow customers to book their own Bed/Roomette via the website, just like airlines do with seat assignments. It is not that complicated -- well, maybe for the old system AMTRAK uses -- but they need to upgrade it promptly.

If you'd read my reply, you'd note that they DON'T assign a specific fare to a specific room.

Also, Airlines do assign fares to seats. Try to book a window seat (even in coach) forward of the emergency exist and it'll cost you extra. A middle seat will cost you a bit less. Exit rows cost more. This is even on airlines that don't have an economy plus type of product.

Also, airlines' reservation systems are just as old as Amtrak's.

I did read your post, and that is not the experiences I have had. I have, through 1-800 reservations, tried to book a Room and was offered #1 ... when I asked for #2 instead, the fare was higher. Same for trying for two across the hallway ... I got #3 and #7, but when I asked for #6, it was a higher cost. In both cases, the lower fare was still availabe.

Your experiences are being colored by the exact problems that Trogdor outlined in his post; namely the agents not knowing what they have to do since it doesn't happen that often.

But I can assure you that Trogdor is correct, no room is attached to a bucket. I once believed that myself many years ago. But having seen a demonstration of ARROW a few years ago, I can assure you that Trogdor is correct.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

When making a new reservation, there is a way for the agent to specify what room to book as opposed to letting the computer assign the next one in its internal order (the order of which can vary depending on the situation). However, most agents will let the computer auto-assign the room (which is a slightly different entry). If the fare is the last available in a given bucket, this can give the appearance that the specific room requested is priced higher by default. That is incorrect. If (in a new reservation) the agent releases the auto-assigned room first, and then selects the new room, the prices should be equal.

Like other posters have said, I've had several experiences with Amtrak agents who quoted me higher prices for certain rooms. I see a price on the website, and then call to make a reservation, and ask for an upper level roomette. They usually tell me that they can get me that price, and tell me a roomette number that's on the lower level. I then restate that I wanted upper level. They look that up, and tell me that it's going to cost more. I then get mad, hang up, and call another agent, who happens to assign the room first, and I get the price I see online.

From reading your post, I can now see what they did - they let Arrow autoassign a room, & then when they look up the new room (without releasing the old one) it's at a higher bucket. From now on, when I get that response, I will ask for a supervisor, & maybe we can get this problem eliminated!

 

[Guest]

When is AMTRAK going to get away from this silly practice of assigning a specific fare to a specific room. Airlines do not do that, and AMTRAK should follow suit. In addition, they should allow customers to book their own Bed/Roomette via the website, just like airlines do with seat assignments. It is not that complicated -- well, maybe for the old system AMTRAK uses -- but they need to upgrade it promptly.

If you'd read my reply, you'd note that they DON'T assign a specific fare to a specific room.

Also, Airlines do assign fares to seats. Try to book a window seat (even in coach) forward of the emergency exist and it'll cost you extra. A middle seat will cost you a bit less. Exit rows cost more. This is even on airlines that don't have an economy plus type of product.

Also, airlines' reservation systems are just as old as Amtrak's.

Amtrak shouldn't (and won't) let customers select their own room while booking online.

The main reason customers shouldn't pick their own rooms when booking is because of Amtrak's liberal cancellation/change policy and the fact that unlike an airplane, all passengers aren't traveling between the same two city pairs. They could end up with lots of scattered empty rooms between mid-points, end-point to mid-points, etc., and yet the train would show no rooms available from end-point to end-point.

The vast majority of passengers do not really care what room they are in and adding that extra step would make reserving online a more complicated and confusing transaction for most people.

You are saying the computer prevents 'scattered empty rooms'. hardley, I say. Plus, we are also talking about 14 roomette and 5 bedrooms --- quite a small inventory.

PLUS --- ref your mid-points points, well ... I have been blocked out of a Bedroom before for a 24-hour trip because it was blocked by someone riding 1-hour. How is that efficient, or any different than people picking their own room (which, if they do not want to, could select 'auto assign' at booking ... like selecting Yes or No to the travel insurance),

I would have had to vacate or move to another Bedroom or even to Coach. So the computer goofed that one up, huh

I didn't say that the computer prevents "scattered empty rooms." I was implying that every customer having to choose their room assignment would increase this problem.

Your example of your mid-point trip doesn't prove your point. As mentioned, because of Amtrak's liberal cancellation and change policy, this will always happen. You never know when someone is going to cancel, etc.. The person going one hour in the bedroom could have booked that room after someone had booked the room for the rest of the trip (and later cancelled) and that person traveling one hour was assigned to that room without even caring what room they were in. Or, the same passenger could have insisted that they have room D rather than room C (which had the person booked for the other 23 hours) because it was four feet closer to the coffee station.

Each Superliner sleeping car has 5 bedrooms and 14 roomettes, not each departure.